Hey Guys, I'm doing pretty good so far with the 165 But I have a small issue I can't really figure out. Driving is fine, it truely is coming along pretty good. the problem is when I come up to a light to stop. If I'm reving hte motor around 2500 or so (or higher, doesnt matter) and I pull the clutch in to stop, the tack drops to like 400RPM for a second and if I don't tap the gass WILL stall. I set the idle to 750 RPM to agree with my cam, and 1050 at really cold temps (below 50 degrees F), and it should never idle under 750 cuz I set that all the way through 220 degrees F which is long after my fans come on (200). Sooooo.. Any ideas? I think whats happening is it might be leaning out and thats why, but I'm at a loss. Also, what do you guys recommend for O2 voltage at idle?? I'm pulling like maybe .300 at best on a idle. DUring driving conditions you see anywhere between .300 and .800.. I have Winaldl but I can't drive with it cuz it raises the idle, and I'm having a problem with moates adapter. Prolly in a few days, datalogging will bring all of this to light -- but I thought i'd ask youall first since its prolly obvious (to you). I'm seriously considering a 730 swap over the winter if I can get some encouragement that it will work with 10psi of boost! Thanks. -- Joe

How come you started with the ARAP auto bin? The manual counterpart is APYP. I'm using a modified version of that with my 305,5speed setup, and had very little trouble with it.

I had similar issues when I switched to a T56 manual trans, eventually ditched the ARAP bin and went with APYP as ZZsmpch said. IAC behavior is different between auto and manual transmissions...mine would hold ~1200rpm as I coasted down, then nearly stall. With the APYP bin it would drop to the programmed 750rpm when I dropped out of gear and coasted, and hold a nice steady idle.

For the O2 readings question, you want to tune by BLM not O2 readings when working with closed loop behavior.

Is APYP a $6E or $32 bin?

OK.. I'm gonna try that now then. I'll download the APYP bin, and change to my injector constant, and some other stuff and give it a whirl.

Thanks guys!

-- Joe

im not a big fan of the $6e arap bin in fact i dont like $6e. i would sugest making sure that your iac is following the VSS correctly. its proboably got to many steps. cut it back to a 1/3 of what it was. call it a hunch its overshooting the idle speed when you disnegage the clutch then doing and idle cut and then going into stall recovery. id bet that your base throttle opening is also insuffcient.

$6E will be crushed when it finds out.

APYP is $6E code, just need to fix the oil temp warning bit. TunerCat can turn it off, or you can do it with a hex editor. After 180sec of running, the ECM will try to sample input from the oil temp sender...which your car doesn't have...and set an error code and the Check Engine light. It doesn't kick the car into limp home, just a nuisance.

I never saw any of that.

You're right, brain fart in progress, I was thinking of the $8D Y-body bin (speed density) which has the oil temp sensor. No such thing on the $6E bin. Thanks for the correction.

Hrmm.. Sounds.. good.. So its $6E, and is a better base than trying to tune ARAP for a manual. good deal. Thanks!

ARAP is just driving me absolutely insane..

-- Joe

I'm gonna try this bin tonight.

Last night for ****s and giggles, I tossed in an 88-350-auto bin. (AYXP or something like that) and. Well it idles up and down, like between 200 and 700, but won't stall when you come off the clutch in a coast.

Funstick, what dont you like about $6E?

Thanks guys.

-- Joe

$6e doesnt like to idle. also i found that the 32 32b are just way easier to tune. im tyring to get some coders to help out with writing a patch to use the 6e highwys spark mode in a 32 32b bin. would make the 32 32b superior to the 6e.im not a coder but im good at getting the whole ecm oprational concept. if anyone would like to pitch in on adding a highway spark mode patch to the 32 32b please do.

Funstick,

I can almost agree with you. I put my old AKXY bin in last night, and the thing pulls harder, runs better than 3 weeks of arap tuning.

I dunno.. I'm gonna try the APYP tonight and see if that works better. The auto bin is almost better cuz the idle floats down,
rather than drop. I wonder if thats part of the problem..?

-- Joe

i was telling you before to cut down the IAC counts vs MPH. would be a good idea. its sort of a crude throttle follower.
also setting the tcc to 255mph and the tps to engage at 99.6 and disengae a 0% you would be fine as well. therby telling the ecm hey there is no converter lock up. also removing the idle p/n offest to 0 wil help as well.

HI,

I'll try that tonight. I tried the APYP bin last night. No different that arap really. Stalled a little less but.

I also tried resetting iac + tps as recommended. Set throttle blades to idle at 700RPM with iac disconnected.

It will still drop RPMS quick as a mofo and stall. Looking at my O2
meter, looks like I run about .800 while cruising, and when I get off the throttle and pull the clutch in o2 dissapears alltogether.
I think i'll put the heated O2 in tonight.

I'll try the IAC counts tonight. TCC lookup? What are you saying
use an auto bin and disable that that way or?


Thanks!

-- Joe

Ok, idle problem fixed.

O2 was junk.. It was reading too late I think.. Right now:

idle: blm's 145, OS between .076 - .396
wot, and partial throttle: BLM's are 125


Any suggestions ? It sounds like I got plenty fuel everywhere but at idle..

Funstick: I look for iac steps vs mph, and saw none. My IAC is running between .54 and .60 at idle, and TPS voltage is .52 at idle. MAF reading is about 9 grams/sec. (sounds low) this is
at 800RPM.

-- Joe

you need to add some fuel in the 0gram area of the fuel table. id say if you have tunercat do a scale of the whole column by 1.05 then see what that gets you. if your that leans its gonna stall alot. also make sure that the idle charing voltage is around 13.8-14.3 volts. seen alot of junk rebuilt alternators lately making maf cars stall. with your combom it does sound like the maf is reading a bit low are the screens still in it ?
sorry i was thinking $3a duh on the iac steps. its COOLANT temp vs iac steps and warmup vs coolant temp or something like that.

also add some injecotr pulse width. in the 0 and 16 gram area columns. id start with the 0 gram area first simply becuase its the begining of the fuel slope.

I want to thank everybody that contributed to this thread. I've been pulling my hair out for months trying to figure out why my IAC counts were pegged and the car would not idle. I replaced the IAC and throttle body, and even tested the wiring. No matter what I did, the IAC played dead. I finally adjusted the throttle blades out a half mile so it would idle, but it still needed me to hold it at 1,500 rpm when it was cold.

Last night I pulled out my ARAP and threw an APYP in there. Even though it's been cold out, the car started right up and idled with absolutely no throttle assistance. I haven't hooked my scan tool up to it and attempted to set the IAC & TPS back to where it should be, but either way I noticed an immediate improvement. Thank you all.

Yeah that bin is **** loads better.

I dont see where to add fuel at the 0gram area like FUnstick recommended though. Only thing I can think of is pulse width vs battery voltage..


And yeah man, its been freezin the last few days. Wtf..



-- Joe

never mind your still working with $6e. i thought you were using the $32 $32b. well you could goto the maf tables and up the values a bit in the second table. just cross the current airflow reading with the values in the maf table then drive them up a bit.teling the ecm its getting more air would richen it up a bit.covnersly telling the ecm its getting less air would lean it out.

Hey,

Yeah I know.. I figured that those tables were part of the "why $32B is better". But ahh well..

I'll mess with the voltage vs pulse width to richen up my idle a bit.. Ultimately its the "coming down off the throttle " I want which should drop the voltage, so if I fatten it up It will prolly not bounce as hard..

-- Joe

Hey Jim,

Where do you usually hang out/cruise??

-- Joe

In my garage mostly

I'm over in Western MA, a little north of Pittsfield. I commute back and forth to Pittsfield daily, but I'm almost always in the GTA. The IROC has only been to the gas station once all year

I live in lawrence, but I'm in worcester often. You should come up to the dragway sometime and hang out though ( in epping).

Whats the deal with the GTA?

-- Joe

what do you mean "what's the deal"? There's no deal. It's fine... I just wish I got to drive the IROC more.

I'm glad to see APYP working out for others, I thought I was the only one having luck with it. I still have a lot of tuning to do with it though, just never have the time.

wonder if there a byte that needs to be set for auto or manual tranny logic ??? i emailed tunercat ill keep you posted on the outcome. i know a few codes have it $58 comes to mind right off the bat.

update there is in fact a switch in the $6e code for auto manual tranny logic.dig thorugh the switches table in tunercat its in there.

Argghhh. Ive been tinkering with the ARAP for awhile and finally got my IROC to where it will stall maybe once every 5 times I drive it... now I wish I had just used this other bin. Ill probably still try it.

It seems to work a little better. Erm. A lot..

I also added a little more fuel at 12.5v so if the idle dives too low for whatever reason, it should recover. I think.


-- Joe

Bah. My car still won't idle for sh*t on cold days until it warms up. I've gotta hold it at 1,500 for a couple minutes in order for the idle to stabilize.

Back to the drawing board.

Are you using T.C.? There's a table for rpm vs coolant temp.

Yeah, I've looked at it. I don't really want to program the computer to run the car at 1,500 until it warms up. I've got to find the source of the problem, which I suspect is due to my malfunctioning IAC that I seem unable to fix.

I had similar problems initially..

Want a copy of the current bin i'm playing with? I also have one with reduced timing??


-- Joe

Yeah, I wouldn't mind taking a peek. Thanks.

Jim,

go here: http://members.cisdi.com/~anesthes/projects/prom.html


The "hot" bin is running stock APYP timing, which is. insane so to
speak.

The "cold" bin is running an imported timing table, from AUJN.

Lemme know how it works for you. I broke my memcal yesterday
ugg.. I think one of the pins losened up.. I was driving, banged
second gear and the car went into limp mode. it was like putting
on the brakes. hehe. I thought I threw a rod!

-- Joe

Thanks. When I get home tonight I'll try downloading them and when I get time I'll burn them and take the car for a ride.

With the APYP bin that I've got now, I don't have any audible knock, but since I haven't even driven the car enough to hook the scan tool up, I have no idea if the computer is pulling any timing or not.

Jim,

Dude. I found the combo last night. I used the "hot" bin and set the initial timing to 10 degrees (in the prom and dist so they matched). omg.. It ides perfectly, drives amazing.

I was on 495 in 3rd gear, going like. 75mph. I hit the throttle and the tires just started burning.. Hit 4th, and It put me in the back seat..

Lemme know how the bin works for you. I have a little tiny bit more tuning maybe but.. I'm doing good. Too bad race season is over in a week.

-- Joe

Has anyone got anything new to share about the APYP bin?

I need to sit down and start burning my own chips and I was going to start with the APYP.

Yeah. APYP works for me until I switch to 749.. WHen you get started, i'll send you some bins I worked on..

-- Joe

Wow... It took me forever to re-find this thread. I'll give that a try in the spring. My IAC still isn't operating like it should.

Jim85IROC,

This is totally off the subject,,, but where did you get the hood on the IROC???

FWIW: I have trouble with idling with the ARAP bin and have gone back to my own version of my CARPRO bin. I use the $32B definition file.

ARAP is $6E. Your idle problem could be anything.. You need a scantool.

-- Joe

Anetheses, I'm having minor probs with your cold-bin.
My car is a BEYOTCH at start-up.
And once she's warm she's usually impossible to restart until it's cooled off.
Once again I'm a tuning newbie so I don't really know what I should be looking for with the Moates scanner.

In your above post you talk about matching the the base timing with the base timing in the programmingof the EEPROM.

Where is that done? What table?

Ermm. Base spark advance.

Reset your IAC. i've been hunting down an idle problem for a while. Tried everything, ended up being something really freakin stupid.


1) Turn off car
2) Jumper A+B
3) turn car to on position
4) unplug iac
5) turn car off, remove wire
6) start car, and turn out idle screw until a "stable" (meaning
won't stall) idle is achieved. This prolly requires two people,
unless you have a starter button under your hood like me.
7) let car warm up to operating range, and then wait another 10
minutes.

- now -

1) write down RPM its happy at
2) shut off car
3) edit prom, and set idle @ that temp to whatever that idle was
4) edit subtemps, and next highest temp to reflect happy idle.
5) while your there, make sure you base timing matches in the
constant table.
6) save the bin, put the chip in and start the car. If your idle woes
are NOT cured, write down yoru BLM's at idle (closed loop)
and start adjusting with battery voltage vs injector pulse width.

$68 is.. Tough. A boatload of us jumped ship to $8D with the 730
ecm. I supose wot is wot (kinda) but ...

-- Joe

I'll try that out and see what happens.

Anetheses!! I ran a 13.7 @ 102 mph today on the HOT bin.

I'm still having a BAD hot start problem.

The car gets warm and won't fire up.

If I let it cool down for about 10 minutes she fires right up!

Thanks for the help Joe!

Do you have headers?? All that timing doesnt help.. I use a summit protorque starter. its well worth it. tried the remote solenoid stuff. No go.

Glad to hear your running good. You really should drive around with a scan tool to see how close or not your fuel maps are.. That bin really wasnt meant to work on anyones car but mine, I posted it as a starting point.. but glad to hear your doing ok.

-- Joe