Topic Says it all. Im posting this here Because We are about to dive into this project, and I havent found very much easily acessable information on it, so Im putting together this thread to get it all in one place. Maybe this belongs in DFI/ECM ? I don't know. Its a pretty good hybrid of both. From the research I have done in GM-ECM and On here, along with some contemporary advice from Saturn5 ( Still waiting to here from YenkoZ28), Here is what Looks like Needs to be Done. Harness Repinned for 7749 ECM, similar to the 7730 Swap So not a big deal. Needs to be Pinned Following the Sy/ty Schematic, NOT The Sunbird unless you plan on running 4 Peak and Hold style injectors ) V8 Memcal 7730 Loaded w/ Sy/ty Bin. Im actually probrably going to be using Saturn5's Baseline Bin w/ several things changed to run on V8 Applications To start with, but it was based off the sy/ty in the first place. Install Delco 2 bar MAP Install Speed density knock sensor - Question, what do I do about the 165 ESC Circutry ? More potential problems/questions. VSS. The 7749 Uses a 4 pulse VSS correct ? So Changing the VSS will be nessicary. Nothing you wouldnt have to do for a 7730 Swap. Once the hardware is done ( easy mechanical part ) Then the Tuning needs to be accomplished. I won't be able to really comment untill it is underway, Because obviously I have no idea how difficult this will be. The needs of a blown 5.7L and a turbocharged 4.3L fuel and spark wise are likely to be pretty far off ) AFAIK yenkoZ28 seems To have his running, but I have yet to hear from him. Are you out there, what do you have to add ? Thanks. Hopefully this thread can grow into something useful and become a central referance for those wishing to use the 7749 ECM in boosted Fbody applications. Maybe Im blind, But Finding the information to do this swap has been a bit of a struggle this far, and the swap itself seems relativly easy. Let's take this oppertunity to bring it all to one place in a step by step form wich can eventually be evolved into a Tech article. ...

To note: The $58 code supports both optical (2 pulse) and magnetic (4 pulse) VSS. Just a simple switch in the bin.

Just wire it as a 730 and use the correct knock sensor for your displacement. eg 5.0L or 5.7L

Bort,

Sounds like you have everything in hand. AFAIK, Saturn5 is on the money with his comments. I'll be tackling this project too in preparation for a Vortech on my car.

Tim

When You say Wire it as a 730, You mean Just Pull the ESC stuff out ?

Good to know that the 7749 supports both VSS signals.

The ESC circuitry was moved to the memcal on 730/749 ECMs, therefore all you need is to wire direct from the sensor to the ECM.

Heres the wirng diagrams for a SyTy.

page 2

page 3

Thank You Bob.

Thats what I Meant By removing the ESC )

So we have Tackled those two issues, Theoretically.

I guess right Now its just a Matter of putting it all together, and establishing some tuning guidelines.

Scheduled D Day is Nov 23 ) Have to Dig this post out By then, haha.

Pulling this up from other threads...

Differance between 7749 and 7730 Pinouts.

~7749 ~7730

A8 ~N/C ~ALDL Serial Data
A9 ~ALDL serial data ~N/C
B9 ~N/C ~VSS input (Low)
B10 ~N/C ~VSS input (high)
B11 ~N/C ~ VSS to inst panel
C1 ~N/C ~Vehicle Speed Signal (Cruise)
C6 ~DRAC Signal ~N/C
C13 ~Inj Ground ~N/C
D6 ~N/C ~Inj Ground
D12 ~N/C ~Fan #2 Request
D14 ~N/C ~4th Gear Switch
E3 ~IAC B-Low ~A-High
E4 ~IAC B-High ~A-Low
E5 ~IAC A-Low ~B-High
E6 ~IAC A-High ~B-Low
E13 ~N/C ~ Fuel Pump Signal (PPSW)
F1 ~A/C Relay control ~MT Shift Light Control
F2 ~Waste Gate Solenoid ~N/C
F4 ~TCC Solenoid control ~Cat Conv Diverter Solenoid
F6 ~N/C ~TCC
F7 ~N/C ~Canister Purge Sol Control
F10 ~N/C ~Pass Key (VATS)

For my appplication, the 165 --> 7730 Pin changes are here

http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28/ECMs/86to92.txt

Thanks to Mike Davis.

Looking at the 7730 ~ 7749 Changes, It seems like alot of things are Lost. VATS and Canister purge, Cat Divertr, #2 FAn control, N 4TH gear switch. Along w/ the VSS signals.

What do you do for VSS input? Simply stick VSS cruise into C6 for DRAC ?

Maybe I should go ahead and make an amended 165 ---> 7749 Swap. Once I get taht straitend out.

Use the turbo sunbird diagrams for the vss setup, and then set the computer to the magnetic vss.

Sunbird VSS..

Hey Guys, We got it all wired up, and it runs, but assumedly in limp home.

but Got a problem. Its giving Constant SES and wont go into Diagnostic Mode.

Verified all Pins are correct, and 5v at the ALDL diagnostic terminal.

When grounded, it just wont go into Diag Mode. Still constant SES>

This is w/ or w/o PROM in the memcal. Should be getting a code 51 but it won't go.

Any Ideas ?

But it does run )

Just to be sure..

you have a v8 memcal for a 90-92 TPI.

and the cylinder select in the bin is set to 8 (0).

Hey Bob,

Well, here is the thing, lol.

I have both a V6 and a V8 memcal. Both Cause this to happen. (trying to figure out wich one is wich, remember?)

Both have a PROM w/ the BIN you sent me loaded.

Even with the wrong memcal, I should still be able to get into diagnostic mode, right ?

Thanks alot )

Did you disable the checksum in the bin?


Tony

Okays....nother idea

Are you using a 29at256 chip?? The bin I sent should be 16K. the chip is 32K.

are you loading the bin into start address $4000?

my burner at present can't adjust the starting addy
so I double the bin to 32K.

in dos..

copy /b old.bin+old.bin new.bin

HTH, Bob

OK...Ian got it up and running (thanks bro!!) Ill let him fill you in on the details.....but WE HAVE DATA

Time to test and tune baby.....see you tomorrow Bort!

good deal..

Well we have a phantom Code 42, and a pretty good knock at 4k rpm and 50 KPA of boost.

Other than that, it seems to be o-k. INT isnt dead on, but thats no suprise.

Also having some trouble getting the BLMS to report properly using the Snap-on Scanner. Wants to tell me they are always at 128... hard to belive.

Bob, clint...

How Much Timing have you guys fiddled with the timing On yours ?

Were down to about 26* BTDC + 3* And Still knocking at 4k pretty hard.

Seems like the timing is getting sorta low to me, Like to get a look at what youve done for comparison.

Gettin there

Wish I could help out, but the Malibu has not seen any street time. Until I finish the frame nothing, and a few other things, I'm garage bound...plus winter is a knocking here.

Where on the table are you at 26 degrees? So far I have just tuned the fuel values. As for timing I set it at 6 degrees initial in the chip and on the motor, but have yet to play with the factory tables. I get just a couple knock counts at WOT from about 3-7 psi.

Hey Clint, Bob.

Well turns out the Timing problems were being caused by the Vortech's Boost Retard.

Pulled that thing out, and the sy/ty Curve seems to work just ine, with only a few minor knocks at WOT.


The only two real problems that remain are a code 42 and a intermittant code 24.

Related to the code 24, The Snap On Scanner shows no Vehicle speed, and I don't think the torque converter is locking.

I have the bin set to Magnetic VSS, and tried the ppm at both 2k and 4k, Same result.

Did you have any problems with either of these codes clint ?

Thanks.

Which tuner are you using? If tunercat set the ppm to 4007, if programmer set the ppm to 4006. I had this problem at first but I can't remeber what I changed to fix it. I take it your using a vss from a 730 setup? As for the code 42 are you using the V8 memcal from a 730? Also is there a diff between 165 and 730 knock sensors? If there is maybe switch to a 730 type.

I had set ppm to 4000, Ill try 4007 today (using TC)

We are using supposedly a V8 memcal, but we are getting another one to make sure. I wonder if that could be it ?

Bob, when you put the V8 BIN on the V6 Memcal, what code did it set ?

Using the original VSS from the car, and using a 7730 knock sensor.

The knock sensor is working and everything, so that seems to be okay.

Had to set it up again...

It returned a code 43 ESC failure.

From the tech article on the main page..
CODE 43
Low voltage at electronic spark timing circuit.

Seems a little too coincidental, to me.

Both Codes having to do with the ESC, I wonder.

AAAGGGHHHH!!!!!

Bugger.. I fooked up. I just swapped the chip from the Bu into the V6 memcal.. which set the code 43...

I forgot that I have code 43 disabled in my bench bin. Code 43 is because I don't have a knock sensor attached to my bench.

I reburned my bench bin with the cylinder select to 8 cyl.

It didn't set any codes... sorry..

Well,

I used Promgrammer to disable the Malf 42, except when I did so I got a flickering SES light.

Promgrammer seemed to cause this whenever I alterd anything. This was my first experiance with the program, so I imagine I was probrably doing something wrong. Any Insights ?

I set the ppm to 4007, but we didnt take it on the road so no idea if that is working or not.

On a related note, Im having NO luck getting My Two transistor interface to work.

Im trying to use it with Freescan. Can anyone confirm the Two transistor interface shown on andy's Site Working with freescan and the 7749 ?

Programmer doesn't automatically update the prom checksum like tunercat does. If you go to the tools section on the taskbar you will see calculate checksum in the dropdown menu. Click on it and then update your checksum to what it says. That will get rid of your code 51 problem.

We haven't had any luck with the checksum calculator. Although that might be to do with the code changes in the bin.

To disable the checksum set the program ID(KKPGMID) to 0xAA.

Then you shouldn't have to worry about a 51 at all.


You may also want to look at buying a copy of datamaster software and a cable from TTS powersystems. The software isn't cheap, but is worth every penny for datalogging my sy.


HTH

Tony

Well, If it was my car I would spring for the Datamaster and Cable, But its not. I just took My cable apart and it looks like the Base of one of the transistors was touching the casing, so that is likely the problem. I would still like to know if freescan does work with the two transistor design, or if Im barking up a tree.

I had a suspicion that it had something to do w/ the PROM checksum, even tho I don't know WTF that is.

I used the "Calculate Checksum" Feature, and it lined up with the displayed checksum, so that seemed okay.

Ill Give what Tony Suggest a try. It wont be untill wednesday that We get another crack at this )

Some more Information on our code 42 problem.

With the code 42 malf disabled in the bin, It won't start.

With the EST bypass Disconnected, It will start.

With the Low Ref sig Disconnected and EST control disconnected, Bypass Connected, Spark on crank but no start. It will however surge breifly after cranking, for a few seconds.

with the Low Ref connected and bypass connected, Control disconnected No spark even on crank.

wtf?

haha

Module is New, So its not likely that.

At any time we can Disconnect the EST Bypass and it will start like a dream.

Well, Its done.

No Codes. 42 was caused by my switching two wires on accident. ( I was sending ESC control to ground, oops)

Solved that with the trusty DVOM.

Once that was sorted, got the VSS lined up and everything works )

BLMS ranged from 123ish to about 139 on the high side driving around. This is with the stock Sy/ty tables on the Bolt on L98 Running Vortech blower, 6lb pulley.

Im putting together a step by step webpage, So Stay tuned.

There's no reason everyone w/ a blower shouldnt be doing this )

When the owner decides its time for a real motor and pulley, we will hit the Dyno w/ WB and dial WOT in, Then Ill spend some time on the VE tables and get those as close as I can.

No point really now, as the motor won't be in long )

yay.