THIS IS G-R-E-A-T !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I WANT one. No I MUST HAVE one... Nah I WANT AND MUST HAVE ONE N-O-W !!!!!! I want one all put together, ain't got time or inclination anymore to build this stuff. How can I get one?????

Oh, BTW.

If running off a bench pwr. supply, what current capability do I need for the supply to have?

I'm guessing since I don't have to have the injectors connected then it won't be more than 3 to 5 amps?

Do I need injectors connected to it to test with?

This will beat the heck out of 'bunning and running'..

I have one assembled and ready to ship. Just needs an ignition module, ECM pigtails, and a straight thru serial cable to finish.

$160 shipped, with documentation.

A 5 amp supply will work fine running the ECM and bench only.

No, injectors are not needed, but can be added at any time, but this will require a beefier supply. ~15 amp.

thanks, Bob

You'll want one.
Just to hook up, and to be run from time to time so as to get what an erratic injector sounds like.

If your working on an application where your running high duty cycles, there comes a time when the injector doesn't turn off long enough for the pintle to fully relax. So the injector can just Hang 1/2 way open. You'll want to slow raise the RPM, and MAP/MAP signal and work thur all the areas of normal operation to make sure you don't venture into this reason. That is if your serious about tuning. Typically at 90-95% DC starting at like 3,500 RPM is where the trouble starts.

Another thread murdered
Just to think there is a person out there who sells custom chips and does not think an ECM bench is useful?

I'm saving fore mine right now,
Grumpy has shown me the light.

Murdered? No.. I think of it as thread SPAM. Unfortunitly it happens.

Thru all the chest beating and baiting, the notion that "ET = mastery of the eprom" still gives me a chuckle.. and a shudder.

I'm getting ready to order a second batch here after the new year. Down to a couple a bare boards.

Minor revisions to the next batch, mainly moving text and text size.

BW

BW:

FYI, I think I'll be ordering one board in a couple of weeks - just waiting on delivery of a spare ECM.

Please add (with confidence) one board to your inventory calculations. TIA.

More Spam: One day I'll order one. As I said previously, IMHO I think that it's absolutely invaluable for doing any type of code exploration and/or for modifying things where you don't understand the consequences ... and I encourage anyone intending to explore code to buy one.

Tim

Any chance I could get a price quote on a complete kit, but un-assembled? I.E. all the parts in one nice package at my doorstep, waiting for me to assemble.

Soldering is no problem (my DIY-wb worked right the first time i powered it up, so i guess that means i can solder); i'm just lazy and if I have to order the parts it won't happen till 2004. wait...make that 2005!

They pay for themselves in gas saved in a month.
Once you master one you can do most of your WOT fuel sitting comfortably in your kitchen.

I doubt many guys are even close on their VE tables. Getting the table right after peak torque and when you have to start decreasing the entry values isn't for the faint of heart.

Once I do enough chips to be 1/2 close on the low speed stuff, I can generally hammer out the WOT in 4-5 chips on the bench. granted I'm in a slightly different venue, but the same principles apply.

Yeah thats possible, I can do a "kit". $130 shipped.

cheers, Bob

You should double the price.
If folks still haven't figured out, what I've been saying about them ain't true, well then they desire to pay for not paying attention.

I want one so, how much extra for a assembled board shipped to Canada, and do you take paypal.

I was wondering when you are checking duty cycles with this ecm bench. (1) How do you simulate fuel pressure to the injectors?
Also when doing any of the test.(2) Do you have to vary the voltage to the ecm to simulate being driven? (3)Does this work with maf and if so how do simulate maf?
Thanks for all replys

(1), ??
An ecm bench is for seeing what the ecm does with a given set of inputs.
(2) ??
No, unless your checking something for seeing how it deals with something other then normal operating volts, you want to conduct your tests at a given voltage.
(3)
Depends on the MAF some are frequency, some are voltage. The frequency one's need a frequency input, and the voltage type can just use the *MAP* input.

That may happen.

At least in kit and assembled form. Boards will stay the same. But to make it worth the time to order parts,sort kits and stuff/solder a board. Labor costs..

But for the mean time, prices aren't changing. BW

So long as it's in US currency...

$160.00 to your door. Paypal accepted. see first post of this thread.

BW

1. Do you mean, what to do when you change the fuel pressure? That would be the same as changing injectors, which would require a change to the injector constant, or BPC.

2. No reason to vary the voltage to the ECM unless your doing testing to see how low it will go before the ECM pukes.

3. Grumpy nailed it. The bench works with a voltage based MAF, or MAP sensor.

BW

[quote]Originally posted by SATURN5
1. Do you mean, what to do when you change the fuel pressure? That would be the same as changing injectors, which would require a change to the injector constant, or BPC.

2. No reason to vary the voltage to the ECM unless your doing testing to see how low it will go before the ECM pukes.

3. Grumpy nailed it. The bench works with a voltage based MAF, or MAP sensor.

BW [

/QUOTE] 1.No, how do you make the ecm think the injectors have
fuel pressure when checking dc & pw wouldnot fuel
pressure affect both of these?
2.So that willnot have any affect on Injector offset vs
battery voltage tests?
3.What about the frequency maf and how do you
simulate airflow with it or the voltage based maf?
THANKS

I received my testbench last week, excellent piece!

I've completed all the connections, but have one question. What should I use as a power supply?

If your just running the ECM and Bench a good 5 amp supply would be fine. If you add actual injectors and load the ECM, then a 10-15 amp supply should be used.

My power supply is overkill..

A Lamda 12V DC, 47 amp industrial supply I liberated out of a local GM plant that closed.

Thanks, BW

<Power Supply Envy>
Mine's only 22A at 15V, but I can get 30A at 11V.

Would it be ok to use an AT or jumpered ATX power supply as long as we use the correct rails?

SDI was sooo wrong. I know that an ecm bench is very usefull. That guy burned one chip for his car and though he was ***. Then he went off the charts when 87 t/a was faster. What an idiot! Wish that junk wasn't in this thread, it's useless crap. Look at all the time SDI took to write pure crap.

An ecm bench is very usefull,from what I understand. So what's the cost? You have a revised price list but you also have the amount of $130. So could you clarify? Cause I'll want to buy at least the bare board. Don't have the money just yet. Want to make sure what the cost is beforehand.

So how does it work(laymans terms). You get some log data from your car. Then run it on the bench, modify "the chip" and then run the bench again to see what those changes did? I know it's used to test code patches,etc. So the bench will help me learn assembly language?

Revised prices effective Feb 9, 2004,

Bare Boards will run $50 plus shipping with parts list and instructions.

Bench "kit" includes board, parts, and instructions. $150 plus shipping.

Soldered boards with parts(no ign module) $200 plus shipping with instructions.

International orders accepted, prefer paypal for those.


Will a bench help you learn assembly? Not really, since all the changes are done prior to burning a chip, however, it will help you find out if your change/patch is working correctly.

SDI... Hehe.. He sure did pollute my thread with carp. We tried to explain things to him... but he'd rather toss out his timeslip rather than discuss things. His loss... not mine or thirdgens. BW

It'll be a few weeks but I'll want the bare board. It'll be better to build it myself.

What do you suggest that I do to learn assembly language?

Take a couple adult evening classes.
Trying to learn it out of book, is about impossible. I'd bet they cover in one semister what I've struggled with for the last 6 years.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll look into that. I'm still trying to grasp exactly HOW all those instructions fit inside that little prom. Or even how the ecm can run through the code and complete (multiple?) tasks so fast. It just seems crazy. The ecm bench will help explain many little questions . It'll be a nice tool to have.

Goggling around for Motorola - Pink Book- 68HC11, will probably get you a free copy of the instructions for the processor. While the code is actually GMESE it's close enough that the pink book will get you thru 99% of things. Yes, there's alot going on inside that lil AL box.

I can't understand how folks can afford not to get a bench. Forget the code, just seeing how things work, and what changes who is worth it.

Right now, my main reason for getting the bench is the ability to see how changes will affect everything.
I have it wired, I have a power source but now I'm working on getting it to connect to my laptop. I've been searching and believe my problem is that I'm running XP. My brother's laptop runs 98SE and we connected to my car, but he moved to NY. I also have an old Compaq laptop running DOS, no Windows. I think I should be able to connect with that, but haven't had any success, yet. Need to do a little more searching.

Just look at SDI, he will never figure it out. Some people are just dumb. Then you have the guys that just want to fix "that little problem". Most will never realize what an ecm bench is used for(that's the funny/sad part) .I know what it's for and want to thank you guys for bringing this tool to light. Can't wait to get mine. Those wot runs are a ticket waiting to happen. The bench will be a great help in many ways! Not to mention that I'll be able to learn HOW the code works. I'll have alot less stupid threads. NO more "find it yourself"!

Don't be needing to throw stuff like that out.

FWIW, with the new motor in the GN it's taken a few chips to get close enough to be even close enough to data log, but with just roughing things in to find Stoich., and then working out some low boost passes, I was able to sit down at the bench in a few hours found out that,
1) the code needed work, an actual patch to get enough boost multiplier.
2) with that done, in 2 low boost passes, was then able to figure out what needed to be done.

Then with 3 chips, and low boost passes, was able to immediately jump from 3-4 to 10 PSI of boost, and now having verified that, can do some more of the table.

So in a total of 4 low boost passes, I have the low boost dialed in, the 10 PSI area close, and some strong hints about what to do for the next range of boost tuning.

Plus I have everything set not to exceed 90% DC so I don't have to worry about the injectors going erratic at times.

Bob,

Are the fully assembled boards still available?

Tim

assembled boards are no longer available, the last post in this thread explains all.

http://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/show...threadid=99993

To anyone wanting to do assembly, Id suggest starting with another language, like BASIC, if you havnt done any programming before. Even something dumb like programming in a built in high level language on a TI calculator can teach you alot. Do some programming so you get a feel of how computer algorithms work and read up on the basics of comptuer operation.

The assembly itself is like a toolbox full of tools. Knowing how computer algorithms should work and flow is like your knowledge of how to do a job. You can have the best toolbox around but if you dont know how to do something and have no idea what direction to go in, then the toolbox is useless.

Bump....

There is a active group buy til Dec 14 for bare boards.. see the stickys above for more info. Bob

Back up for a simple question rather than starting a new thread...

Anyone have any high res pics of the front and back of a bare board? Or a saved b/w copy of each circuit side?
I'd like to try either hand painting the circuits or try an etching method I've recently seen onto a board. Figured I'd at least make the project worthwhile and try making something I might actually use.

There are schematics floating around for the test bench. Could use those to lay something out.

I remember my old man hand etching his own boards. Ive always wanted to try it. Would be cleaner then using jumper wires everywhere.

with saturn5's permission I could scan the board for you. i still have one bare I believe. Would have to double check...

PM sent.

I did find a few pics here and there, but not near the resolution I'd like to try with. The process I'm going to try is new to me so I want to err on the side of caution.

I have a copy of Saturn5's .pcb file for use with the ExpressPCB program. You can print it out on mylar for photo etching but it is a two sided pcb so it will be tricky to line it all up. When I did my own etching of PCB's, it was nearly impossible to line up a two sided board. If it is o.k. with him, I'll send it to you. HTH

awhile back, I drew up a test bench schematic and PCB, with ExpressPCB. I can send it to you if you'd like. I don't have the whole BOM listed out,etc, plus I didn't want to step on any toes. If there is enough interest, I could even get some made up, you are on your own for getting parts though(I would give you the part numbers, or specs however, just no physical parts).

its smaller that Saturn5's board, and probably does some things differently, so, take it for what its worth. It was made to fit into a chassis box from radio shack, if i remember correctly. Its powered by a small AC/DC brick, so no heavy batteries floating around.

it was based on a prototype box I built, with no real injector loads, so all the I/O is through a 37 pin DIN connector, like a biiigg serial port, and I have a bunch of stuff 'y'ed on the breakout to use a '730 or '165/'747. Bunch of LED's and POT's to control stuff. I never worked out the O2 stuff, it got complicated, so just turn off the error codes. the nice thing though is that you could build the box, and build a small harness, and plug in different ecms to the same box without spending alot of time(just upfront building the harnesses).

PM me if you are interested. I'll try and post some pictures of it if I can. all this info is home, so you'll have to give me a day or so to get it, and post it (darn 8-10 hour work days)

So long as someone etches up a single for there own use, I don't have a problem with sharing the .pcb file. I just don't want wholesale distribution for profit.

Mind that it is a double-sided board, with many vias jumping top to bottom. It won't be easy to duplicate, and no silk screen.

I've got something new long this line bouncing around in my head, a combined bench with software for data readout and on screen controls for the bench in a split screen. I just have to find time to make it all happen. (C)2005

Schaweeet.

I doubt I'd go to the trouble of making more than one, the method is new, and rather neat. I'd hate trying it out on something I won't ever use, but I figured this way, I get to try something new and get something I actually will use after.

If anyone has h.r. pics or anything else, send it on to anisixia@hotmail.com. Whether I get it right or not... that's the adventure.

jw, I wouldn't mind taking a peek at your stuff either.

Saturn, I have no idea how you find the damn time. :shakeshead: Hopefully I can get my son to try this with me, should be fun. Thanks again!

Does anyone have a link to the schematics? Just general input control stuff, don't really need PCB layouts. I found some stuff once before but haven't been able to re-locate it.
I didn't think these were going to be available anymore and have gone in a different direction trying to use some inexpensive DAQ hardware to read the outputs and to provide programmable signals to the inputs. VSS and DRPs could be set up to do ramps or constant frequencies.
Don't have it all worked out yet but should be able to simulate TPS, MAP and o2 changes dynamically (if my programming is good ) based on datalog info. Would be really neato to input a datalog and then watch. Maybe in the future.
The 555 timer controls drove me nuts with what values to use to control them with a pot. The more I looked at them the deeper the hole semed to get.
Not being heavy into electronic theory is my stumbing block.
I like the idea of "tell it to go this fast" and it does
May not work out so I need some fallback info.

Mostly the current task is to experiment with the I/O control directly, not in real engine control usage terms.
TIA,
Jp

as promised, here is are some snapshots of the version I spun up. JP86SS, if you want a clearer pic, let me know foractualy schematics. although, I just noticed, I never put the resistor values on this schematic.(they are on the hand drawn copies I have, though)

the PCB, about 3.8" x 4.5"

sent you an email about this. Are you still selling the boards?

If anyone is selling one of these in working condition please contact me.