DIY PROMDo It Yourself PROM chip burning help. No PROM begging. No PROMs for sale. No commercial exchange. Not a referral service.
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Originally posted by jfreeman74 If I send my ECM to you how long would it take you to install the Prominator and send it back to me. Just wonder how far behind you are if any.
I can't speak for Bill . .but I sent him my ECM three weeks ago . .have yet to get it back . . .waiting. . .patiently. . .waiting. . .can hardly stand it . . . hopefully before the weekend. . .
I was initially worried about the installation of the Prominator board as I had no previous experience actually installing a computer board onto another computer board. I have done my share of soldering but nothing like this.
The use of a hot solder iron, good solder wick and no outside interference helped immensely. It is not impossible, but please consider the consequence of failing if you do it yourself--
Due to some slight interference between the board and an internal ribbon cable, I was unable to set the board down as low as I had originally wished. To that end, the ribbon cable connectors on the board protruded slightly above the original case profile.
I had to make a cover to seal up the case. Everything worked out well and the unit is performing very well. No Sevice Engine Lights (just like before) or anything unexpected.
From my initial experiences, this is a top notch product (with matching tech support) that will take a lot of time off the overall tuning cycle.
I can't wait to use it to tune the TBI 383 that is coming together.
Well guys, I had a slight medical issue that slowed me down just a little...not much, then I came down with some kind of bug that lasted about three days. This week I have to work out of town, so I'm not able to do any assembling at nights. So the past two weeks have not been very productive.
On the plus side so far I'm getting VERY good assembly yields. Out of 26 assembled so far I only have one that doesn't work...I can tell you from experience that is a VERY good yield. I've been working on a few methods that will reduce assembly time, and so far that seems to be working out pretty well.
All I can say is that I'll get them out just as fast as I can. With my regular job's schedule I just can't always accurately predict how much time I will get to spend working on these. I can tell you that when I haven't been ill I'm usually up until about 2-3:00am working on these every other night (gotta sleep sometime!).
I know it gets frustrating...TRUST me I know! I just want you to have a reliable product when you do receive it...so I will NOT cut corners to ship quicker.
I think things will start getting back up to speed within a couple of days.
Yesterday I have received my PROMinator.
This is one of the first for a 165 ECM and need some attention during the installation. (Bill is already solving this small issue).
However, just in case that you have one of these I have put a web page that will help you.
You don't need to solder in a 165 and the end product locks great and neat.
Check this web with lots of pictures. http://www.donostia.demon.nl/Page.htm
Hi Stan,
Yes it will snap in but you need to remove the anchor plastic, because is in the way.
The way I did, you get a rock solid installation and you don't need to be aware of vibrations.
Like I say, Bill has take action and all the new ones for a 165 will be snap-in with the anchor plastic.
Regards,
Cobra289
Nice job Cobra! Excellent pictures, they really show the issues with the '165.
I did just tonight get some first-run prototype adapters that will solve both issues. The Prominator will fit without cutting or bending of the L-shaped mounting bracket (the housing will still need to be trimmed for the cable connector), and both latches will remain in place. I will try to get some pics tomorrow.
I WAS gonna buy the equipment that I need to start learning how to tune in the very near furture, but after your post I think I will wait a bit and try this thing.
just out of curiosity has anyone used the Prominator with WinBin Software, or is it setup for TunerCat exclusivly?? Just wondering What I'm going to need if anything additional.
Well, its not "set up" for either of those. What you're talking about are bin editing programs. Prominator doesn't care what you use for bin editing, they are completely unrelated. All Prominator cares about is that you have a valid bin file to program into the ROM, and that's what the Prominator software does...you open a bin file, hit Program, and that's it. Now, Mark IS working on integrating this functionality into his software so that you can use one application to edit bin files AND to load that bin file into the Prominator, so both tasks will be integrated into one program, but they are really still independant of each other.
Originally posted by MrBill Now, Mark IS working on integrating this functionality into his software so that you can use one application to edit bin files AND to load that bin file into the Prominator, so both tasks will be integrated into one program, but they are really still independant of each other.
Yes sir! This functionality is slated for version 4.0 (which will be the release after next. With the next being this weekend sometime).
OK I just wanted to double check before I got knee deep into this project. Can't wait to get the one I got coming and start playing.....gonna make for a fun car!!
I just fgured out datalogging and am able to see what the engine is doing but have never burnt any chips. Now I have enough courage and put my order through for the Prominator but have a several questions. Someone double check these statements and confirm or set me straight, thanks.
I have an older laptop running Windows 98 with serial/parrallel ports. 1990 IROC 5.7, stock ECM w/perf chip. (7730)
1. ALDL datalogging as normal with with Moates softare.
2. Prominator is hooked up to my Laptop by the supplied ribbon cable or do I need an adapter?
3. Prominator comes with it's own software to load .bin files?
4. Changes are made to .bin files by using yet another type of editing software? TunerPro does not support as of yet?
5. If answer to 4 is yes, what software is recommended for a beginner?
6. Does the Prominator require a different power source other than having the ign turned to on?
Thanks, I cant wait to get my Prominator functioning and finally learn how to tune!
1. Data logging is possible with Moates but this is old DOS based software. (Use the old revision to make a DUMP from your existing EPROM)
TunerPRO RT (Mangus) will cost you $30 for a license. (Next issue will be with special PROMinator support)
DataMaster is and other Data logging software (From TTS).
2. PROMinator is during “BIN files loading” hooked up to your lap top by the ribbon cable. You don’t
need any adapter. (Parallel port connection).
You only need a cable for the data logging via your COM port or the USB (See Craig Moates site
for further information or links)
3. PROMinator comes with it own software. But like I say TunerPRO RT will come with a new Issue
that will support the PROMinator during loading and of course during data logging.
4. TunerPro RT supports already the data logging.
5. I am a beginner and that is what I use.
6. NO, just ing. Turned ON.
Today I have done a driving test with the PROMinator. It works like a champ. I have loaded 4 different BIN files and made some runs. Perfect just perfect.
Switching during driving is like switching the lights, nothing special. I use the Moates EX rotary DIP switch.
The only thing special that I found is during loading of the BIN files the ECM start to run the FAN and stops at the end of the verify. (It is normal but I was forgotten and just surprise me!)
Like you say “Finally learn how to tune” Read, read, read and try, try, and more trying and then ask, ask and ask (Like me) (I found a problem with my O2 sensor today, but this will be a new post)
The only thing special that I found is during loading of the BIN files the ECM start to run the FAN and stops at the end of the verify. (It is normal but I was forgotten and just surprise me!)
This should only happen with the Standard version, not with the Pro version.
You did it again Bill.
This is perfect!!!!!!!!
All the users of 165 ECM will be having the best solution for the PROMinator.
No changes to the ECM body, no soldering, just plug in, like a MEMCAL, easy as that.
Now Mark rev. 4 of the TunerPro RT and we have the toy we want.
Thanks Bill
i don't think this was posted but... on the 165s can i use the 808 code to get ride of the maf.
and do the pin change...
(if nothing else) this a easy question..
__________________ [
Ram Air Firebird Formula 350 1987
Powder Coated Holley Stealth,
HX50W Holset, monster SX pump,
42lb injectors, FMIC, FS BOV [[Tuning in progress]] and I still have my Nitrous back up my 10psi... bent 3 rods..... now 6.0L/ 4l80e going in
I just received my Prominator Pro Version from Bill. Thanks a ton! I am very impressed with the quality of work. I have seen some hack jobs on computer circuits before, but this work is top notch. Anyhow, I have looked at all the parts, everything seems to be there. However when the memcal is reconnected does the prom chip remain inside or is it suppose to be removed?? I am sure this seems dumb (I figure it would remain in place to complete the circuit and the prominator will do the rest). Let me know what the rest of you guys have done. I am going to get my ecm tonight and check how everything will fit together. Thanks again Bill !!!!
Hi northern-tpi,
Congratulations. The joy starts now.
You don't need to remove the original EPROM located at the MemCal.
When you look at the circuit you can see that it is not connected to any pins or other.
PROMinator means "PROM eliminator" en that is what is does eliminate the EPROM.
Good luck.
Regards,
Cobra289
I am really getting excited about programming. Can I ask what steps you went through in your programming. Did you start from scratch or did you begin with a basic program and slowly improve it. I think I will probably start with the basic ARAP program and slowly bump values. I have a scanner and have read Traxion article on programming. He mentions a value of 128 for a Block Lean Multiplier. I figure I will start there and begin with a good idle and slowly work my way through the RPM range. I am not looking for total power just yet. More of a good quality ride. Then I will go from there. Oh yeah I got the dip switch as well so I hope to hold multiple programming on the Prominator. Any tips you can pass along would be greatly appreciated.......
On the new Prominator/MEMCAL adapters, the header that the MEMCAL connects too does connect to all of the pins on the MEMCAL module itself, but the pins that go to the EPROM itself aren't connected to anything. I just made that header full length so that the "extra" pins help to hold the MEMCAL module in place.
Hi northern-tpi,
I think that we are in the same boat.
We just started with DIY PROM via the PROMinator.
I have an 87 305 TPI installed in a Cobra replica.
I am no looking for lots of power (305) but for learning how the things work and try to find the best setup for this car.
Read my first EPROM thread. I get help from the “profs” how to read and evaluate.
About the dip switch. Let me tell you that it works perfect. I remove every time the switch box with the light Number (Moates version) but you need to wait 11 seconds after shout off before the light goes off. (Just precaution) That means that the EPROM is not more active.
Originally posted by Stan I want to hear from a computer illiterate like me...someone that has installed the prominator and is doing the adjustments...
Stan
Hi Stan, I have had mine for close to a month and its very enjoyable. Keep in mind that you will still need datalogging software as well as bin editing software. You can choose whatever type you want. All the prominator does is allow you to load the bin files with two clicks on a laptop rather than pulling out chips and going that route. It is a very good piece to have. I remember last year and how much hassle it was to try to change small things via the old eprom method. Those days are gone for good
Thanks for the words of encouragement....I've been reading for 2 years on this stuff so....If i can get my current setup saved as dip switch #1, I dont think i'll have a hard time and believe that i can serve to help those around here to get into this also....
BTW Which editor software is user friendlies? Excel for datalogging and GMEC or tunerpro or .....etc???
Stan,
Like I said, I haven't started yet, youre about a step ahead of me. Mark Mansur recommended the "BURN1(Flash and Burn) from craig moates. www.moates.net" to burn new chips, then load it with the Prominator software. I am using TunerPro for ALDL datalogging and I think it can be used to edit but I haent made it that far yet. I think I have everything?? Well except the Prominator.... Still much to learn
Prominator replaces the need to "burn one" as it allows you to make the changes and save them. The "dip switch" allows you to save many different "burns" if you will......Am i on the right track?
Received my Prominator last Friday, damn this is cool! Mangus helped me install it and gave me a 101 lesson of his software and Im simply having a blast! Thanks guys (Mangus/Bill/Ken). I can finally idle without tears from the fumes! I loaded the S_aujp bin and it really moves now! So much for that over the counter Performance Chip. I'm going to tackle the VE tables next and try to get rid of my 14 -20 knock counts at WOT. You guys ROCK!
I have run into a bit of a snag on Prominator parts availibility. All of my usual vendors for the CPLD chip are out of stock. They are telling me about 6 weeks lead time from the manufacturer. I will keep searching for other sources, but so far have not had any luck.
Originally posted by neubauej Would this also work in my '94 blazer (obd1), if so, I'll take 2
~Joe
What ECM does it have? I have a '93 (full size) Blazer running the 16168625 ECM, and I'll eventually be putting one in it, too. It should work just fine.
Near Future Mods: 383 Stroker with Dart Heads, 234/244 CompCam, '165 ECM conversion, SLP differential
"1985 305TPI Iroc, free, modifications and repairs, about $4000, the look on the face of guys with a 350 when they find out they just got wasted by a 305, PRICELESS"
Did you guys every get ahold of a 7727 ECM for fitment testing? Cuz I have one laying here that I'm not going to be using for a couple months. I'm sticking a near-stock TPI350 in my '64 Jeep this winter and using the weatherpack ECM so I don't have to run wires through the firewall or use a MAF sensor.....I plan on using it as my guinea pig to learn how to tune, and after spending the evening reading this thread I'm pretty well sold on the PROMinator. PM me somewhere to ship this ECM and I'll be happy to loan it out for the good of the product.
__________________ TheGreatJ
1991 Camaro RS "Suzanne"
1991 Camaro Z28 "Lisa"
2000 Camaro Z28 "Ginger"
1984 GMC Jimmy - 2.8 with a bad rod....L98 swap in progress. my outdated cardomain page
No, I don't have a 7727. I'll need to acquire one to test with. I haven't had any luck so far locally, if someone has one to sell reasonably I will buy it. If I can "borrow" one that'll work too, but I'd prefer to have one to keep.
Well if you want to "borrow" mine I'll be glad to ship it to you. I plan on buying a PROMinator in a couple weeks when I have the money (pending fitment,) so I guess I'll end up sending it for the install anyway.
FWIW the going rate seems to be about $40. That's what I paid for this one, shipping included, with the ATSN 3.1 memcal. Seems like they run a bit higher when a TPI memcal is included.
I sent you an email today and then I found this thread. It answered most of my questions but not all of them.
1. IIUC, for the 165 computer; the Craig Moates Adapter and Prominator just plug in (with case modification for clearance). Is this a correct assumption?
2. Is there a shielded cable available yet for the rotary switch? If not, shouldn't wrapping the cable in foil help? I can always cover the foil with a spark plug wire cover or something similar to hide the shiny stuff....
3. Do I need to order Craig's adapter separately or do you have stock on hand?
1. IIUC, for the 165 computer; the Craig Moates Adapter and Prominator just plug in (with case modification for clearance). Is this a correct assumption?
Well its similar to Craig's adapter, but yes aside from a little housing trimming it just plugs right in.
Quote:
2. Is there a shielded cable available yet for the rotary switch? If not, shouldn't wrapping the cable in foil help? I can always cover the foil with a spark plug wire cover or something similar to hide the shiny stuff....
Copper or aluminum foil tape will work, but the foil needs to be grounded to be an effective shield. So far there hasn't been a need for shielded cable. I usually ship 4' of cable, let me know if you need longer when you order.
Quote:
3. Do I need to order Craig's adapter separately or do you have stock on hand?
Nope, I have 'em. Craig's adapter is still shown on the web site (http://www.prominator.com), but what you'll actually get looks a little different.
One last point of clarification needed before ordering, Will I be able to plug my stock 89 NO Vats chip and my TPIS chip into the Prominator and upload the information into my computer and then install the Flash Burn chip into the Prominator and burn those files to it for a couple of options for a starting point.
A buddy of mine where I work has an old DOS based chip reader/burner that will work with chips with up to 32 legs. I think it's limited to the chips in it's database, but he seemed to remember 27C being the prefix to some chips. I can probably read the file from that if need be. We are going to be looking into trying that pretty soon...
You can't plug chips into the Prominator, but once you get the binary off the chip and onto your PC you'll be good to go. I'd be willing to bet that your buddy's programmer will work for the read. If not, you can send it to one of us and we'll send you the binary file off of it...
If nothing else, I've downloaded a few .bin files off of various sites linked to your website. I can always download one meant for an 89 to the Prominator and start from there. It would be nice to have the TPIS file because the top end was so much much better with that chip than the stock one!
I need to check the pressure switch on my A/C to check whether its NO/NC. I think it's NC and the current stock chip I have for the 165 computer is NO (just guessing until I get the volt/ohm meter on the switch). The guy who put the scanner on it said that my A/C was showing that it was on all the time even when it was off. That's why I put my 870 back in the car, fried too many A/C units. The switch will determine whcih file I download. Can you change that setting in teh Prominator?
I also want to check out my adapter harness to make sure its correct before I start changing things. I probably need to slip the TPIS chip back in the 165 to see if its doing the same thing as the stock one. I ordered your CABL-1 and USB adapter last week and you shipped it on Friday, once it shows up I can get to work.
Another question: Will the prominator give the idiot light trouble codes? I'm just trying to figure out all the options for California smog.....
1. IIUC, for the 165 computer; the Craig Moates Adapter and Prominator just plug in (with case modification for clearance). Is this a correct assumption?
Well its similar to Craig's adapter, but yes aside from a little housing trimming it just plugs right in.
I am a little confused... I was under the impression that the prominator plugs directly into the ECM with minor case modifications. Do you still have to have the adapter, and if so, what is it's purpose?
Originally posted by Desert86Roc I am a little confused... I was under the impression that the prominator plugs directly into the ECM with minor case modifications. Do you still have to have the adapter, and if so, what is it's purpose?
Thanks,
Depends on what ECM you have. Older C3 ECM's do not require an adapter, while later P4 styles ones that have the long "memcal" unit do require an adapter.
