Quote: Originally posted by 1bad91Z I'm buying the first one to develop or incorporate a wide band controller into it ! Looks like Craig's has the hardware to one day handle it! You can do it with the stock computer now so how is that any better? Tim

I think that he is talking about only having one computer to scan ALDL and monitor the WB02 at the same time.

All you would need is one imput to read the voltage of the WB02 and a display (program based) to know what the voltage means and print it to the screen. The main question for this would be, "do all of the WB02 uses the same voltage?"

You've lost me because that's how I do it now ... with only one computer used to scan the ALDL. I use Datamaster on my laptop plugged into the ALDL. There is no other computer.

Tim

I have another newbie question, how easy is this going to be to install into the ECM? I mean is there a chance that I can fawk up the ECM (other then means of static electricity or other stupid things) or screw up the acutaly device? Does it just plug in come where in the ECM?

WBO2 integration into the existing ECM via the GM ALDL datastream is all the rage. That's what I use on the 1227165. Works like a charm, with my own personal hack. I love it too.

From the perspective of someone wanting to log a WBO2 or other 0-5v signal through their serial port while they are performing emulation and regular ALDL datalogging through the very same port, independent of a BIN hack which allows the WB to come in on a typically unused pin on the ECM harness like Tim and I do, then the unit will provide an advantage.

For instance, say you're logging data from a 95 LT1. You can use the AutoProm with TunerPro software to log the normal ALDL datastream to disk or to graphical plot. Coincident with that logging, you can log the 0-5v signal coming from the WBO2 signal. So, you end up with a datafile that has Time, RPM, TPS, WBO2V, MPH, etc, etc.

Of course, datastream definition as well as voltage-to-whatever functions for the A/D can all be defined within TunerPro. So you look at that AFR-vs-Volts curve, you plug in a table in TunerPro, and it will do the calcs for you. Or, if you have something else hooked up (like a Ford MAF and/or TPS and/or etc), it can do the conversions separately, so you have a separate transfer function for each input.

I think the key point is that there are always other ways to accomplish similar tasks. While we may be doing something in one way today and be satisfied in that regard, that does not mean that it's the best way or that it's the only way.

Does this make any sense?

Craig,

That makes perfect sense. Thanks for pointing that out! How are you sync'ing each ALDL item per time interval with the extra items on the other inputs to ensure that everything is truly on the same timeframe? Any answer you give I probably won't understand I guess I'm just looking for you to say that you have already thought about this and have taken care of it. Each 'get' for info on the spare ports has to be totally in sync with each item in the ALDL stream.

Very cool on what Mark is doing with regard to allowing users to customize data conversion with regard to these spare inputs. I think this absolutely rocks. Very awesome.

Tim

The additional A/D info will be accessed via commands, much like the ALDL stream is accessed. The only thing TunerPro needs to do to access it is send an additional command. Thats how the data will be acquired. They won't be absoultely simultaneous, but of course you realize that there is a delay with the ALDL information that the ECM provides caused by both the ECM's processing of the data and the time it takes to be passed via 8192 baud. So any delay or timing issues would be minimal.

It should be noted that Craig is speaking more about a hypothetical example and about possibilities rather than about what "is".

There are plans for what he speaks of and more more. The framework is there. This stuff will evolve (as he and I agree) "to no end".

The new board offers very much. How much will the slow processor speed of the 165 & 730 ECM's impare
it's abilities?

The AutoProm functions independantly from the ECM's processor(s), and therefore their speed makes no difference.

ALDL sample rate is limited more by the baud of the data transmission than of inherent speed of the processor.

Wow this is great!

Will this unit work with 1227727 ECMs these are the weather pack versions of the 730 Ecm.


I appoligize if I have missed an answer to this earlier

Status Update:
Right now everything's on hold. Doesn't look like this project is going to work out after all.

Just kidding! As of today, all the primary functions have been shaken down and found to be pretty robust. Emulation, ALDL datalogging, and chip programming are all working solidly. Field updates of the firmware are also working great. The first round of beta testing units should go out toward the middle to end of this week. If there are no show-stoppers, then orders will be taken right before Christmas.

sorry if this has been asked, but a few questions for a someone new into this field.

1- How much ball park?

2- How easy is this going to be for a new guy like me to understand and use?

3- How exactly is this installed into the ECM?

4- Is there new software that will go with this hardware?


Thanks

AHHHH Don't do that to me! Excellent work Craig!!

Hey Craig, Think there is any way to incorporate some type of position trigger, wiring mods, and outputs for sequential firing of the injectors? Maybe another project during evolution? HaHa GREAT WORK!

Craig,

Maybe on your homepage you can set up a feedback area where we can submit some ideas to you. Sometimes ideas are all that are missing.

Just a thought.

Yikes Craig. I think you were just Marooned. He seems to suggest that you're lacking ideas.

Its OK, though. I believe in you Craig. I believe in you!

(Maroon - why not post your ideas here. Or, better still, in Craig's message boards?)

Mark, your sarcasm is so very subtle!

Reminds me of that scene in "A Few Good Men"...
"You can't HANDLE the truth!"

But yeah, as beta testing cranks off this week, I'll go ahead and prepare a place at www.moates.net in the meager forum over there to harvest ideas, issues, and solutions. This is an eternal project as you might have gathered.

Tested and working on a C3 ECM tonight. 1228747 TBI truck, worked like a charm with 24-to-28 pin adapter. Sweet...

the day craig runs out of IDEAS ill lay a golden egg. hes worse then i am and im bad !!!

That's music to my ears...

Ok, before I get flamed by people who don't read all of the posts, and we know that 70% of the tgo members don't....


I meant that as, if we all share ideas and craig had a forum or feedback area then the posts here wouldn't ever be doubled or overlooked. I know craig has a lot of ideas, and that is where this came from, but if tuners, like myself, do things different or have some ideas for programming/hardware/etc to help out, then maybe Craig can add it with the firmware for the upgrades....all I meant.



Anyway, just waiting for the release date to the non-beta public.

I've set up a forum for the AutoProm at:

http://www.moates.net/phpforum/

I encourage anyone who has questions, suggestions, or commentary regarding this device or related developments to post and keep an eye out there.

Additionally, I will try and keep a 'digest' of FAQs, features, weaknesses, operating instructions, and related information closely linked.

If items in this section are easily 'digested' or redundant, I'll incorporate them into a more singular document. This way, the spirit of 'one-stop' is preserved.

Keep in mind that if you have a question or idea, there are others out there that might be thinking the same thing. No quetion is a stupid one, except that which isn't presented.

actually, questions like:

"how much do you think it would cost to carpet Florida?"

are kinda stupid.

WELL SOME PEOPLE WANTED TO KNOW!.....*goes to cry in corner*

wel florida is 65,578 sq miles

that works out to 203,134,412,800 Sq yards

Now if burbur is say what $7.80 a yard on sale at home depot

thats $1,584,448,419,840

Thats just for carpet. Imagine how much padding and instalation will run if install is $1.50 per yard

pad is $3.50 per yard

ok so let see how much this really costs

for padding and installtion at $5.00 per yard

$1,015,672,064,000

for a grand total of

$2,600,120,483,840

You could carpet and Pad and install burbu in florida. And burbu is so damned nice carpet.

have a good day.

you meant sq. miles/9, right?

ok, ok. it was a stupid question to begin with, remember?

hey criag said

[qoute]there are no stupid questions[/qoute]

so hey i treated it that way

the man knows his carpet... is that a good thing?

to my understanding it works on a tbi car right? and would the baud rate be 160 still or 8192?

Yes, it works on a TBI car. I've tested it on a TBI truck (91), and it seemed to work fine.

It will still be 160 baud, however, the communication will be pretty trick (once I get through with that section). It will ultimately be capable of simultaneous logging and emulation with 160 baud as well, but for the moment that feature only works with the 8192.

However, the device will still work for 160 baud communication. You'll just have to flip a switch on the device and use a program like WinALDL.

Will this be available via firmware update?

yes. the feature list will continue to grow thanks to user-updateable firmware.

I believe you guys may have me sold here. Put my name on the list when you get ready to start releasing them.
BTW...Mangus, that guy that was giving you all that crap earlier deserves to reap the benefits of what he is sowing so to speak. (I say that lightly because I don't want to get "Napstered" for libel...IN MY OPINION he seems like the kind of guy that would happily Napster someone for anything just to make a buck. I wonder what the name of his trailer park is.) Anyway, you guys kick ***!!!
For any ambulance-chasing shyster lawyers that are reading this...I am entitled to my opinion by the FIRST AMENDMENT to the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA and if you don't like that, you can kiss my hairy white ***!!! I fought TWO wars to defend that right and I will defend it to the end.

Mangus, that guy is retarded. His software is just hashed over ecu's. Nothing that great.

You are the man!!! I can't wait to try the autoprom.!!

Please Put my name on that list, I deffinatly want one of these when they are released for sale.

i want one of these also, im gonna swap out my tb ecm for a tpi ecm thanks to the help of some fellow board members

Looks like the AutoProm is ready for Prime-Time.

Now taking orders...

Beta testing has been very positive, so rather than drag it out to the end of time, here ya go:

www.moates.net

Should be able to ship the next batch of units to customers by 01/15. More a week or two thereafter.

Quick synopsis on the beta testing results:

- Tested on 1227165, 1227730, 8747, 93 LT1, EEC-IV, etc. All cases solid stability. Need to test on wider array of devices, but all indications are positive so far.
- On the fly tuning works great, compatible with TunerPro RT and TunerCat RT. No problems or issues.
- Works as a standard ALDL cable, compatible with Moates software, Datamaster, WinALDL. Both 8192 and 160 baud. Seems to work real good.
- Has a special 'simultaneous' mode in TunerPro RT where you can log 8192 data, plot it up, and make BIN changes on the fly for immediate feedback. Works fine in all cases so far.
- Chip programming works like a dream on AT29C256 and AM29F040.
- Serial PC communications / software stability great on Win98/ME/XP/Etc. Don't know about Win95.
- Bootloading for firmware updates works without a hitch. Updates can be sent via web and you can upload them through TunerPro software.
- Three-channel 10-bit analog data acquisition is VERY fast (500+Hz) and works great. Should be able to pull off sampling up to 8kHz on this thing. While overkill, hey, maybe it can be an oscilloscope too? Anyways, you can use it for WideBand input or whatever, and log it simultaneously with other ALDL data or what have you, and make changes on the fly at the same time.

Also, there's a post over at moates.net with respect to the beta testing progress if you want to check it out.

Have fun!
-Craig

Can't wait to try it if the weather allows. My order has been placed. Logging the wideband at the same time will be great!

Craig, you will have mail in a minute or two. My order is going in now!

i got one. i use it. and no craig cant have it back. he will he to fight me to the death. This thing is the **** !!!!!!

I'll have one too shortly...then I'll be able to show all those in JeepLand what a REAL Jeep engine can do....heh heh heh...this is gonna be cool...

Looks like everything presently scheduled for the 01/15/03 shipment is definitely spoken for (ie. paid for) at this point. Next round of shipments will be two weeks thereafter.

Additional firmware and software development continue (of course!). Feature creep continues to build momentum. What's next? Think about it. I guess this'll end up being like a "Swiss Army Knife for DIY Tuning".

Craig keeps crackin' the whip man. I'm not sleeping, my wife doesn't remember what I look like. I'm down to 85 lbs (which makes my car even faster, btw). Is this thing ever gonna be finished?

Nope.

We hope not!

We do want you to get some sleep though, and some time with the wife..... And also, you need to take some time to eat!

Wife...??? I think I have one of those. I haven't seen her in a while, though. The Jeep takes up all of my time...at least that's what she says in her emails to me...
What is this word "eat"? How does one do this?

In your case, I'd say "quickly and with dirty hands".

Hope you enjoy half my paycheck, Craig. Get crackin' on making more

Now I need to find a laptop...

Craig and Mark,

Any progress? Although the product is being released, I'm getting the impression that there are still a lot of kinks to work out, judging by the Autoprom thread in the Moates.net forums.

I'm hesitant because I'm not very good at this kind of stuff and am hoping that the experts get it all worked out and streamlined before I jump in. Do you forsee any necessary hardware updates, as in "oh, I didn't notice that...I need to do this here in the hardware to correct it....", or is it safe to go ahead and buy and the kinks are all on the software/firmware side?

BTW, if I'm wrong about these "kinks", be sure and let me know! I'd certainly rather hear that than be right lol.

Great work, guys.

Looks like all the kinks are ironed out. As with most things, people get quiet when things are working well

I just finished shaking down the first round of 'sold' units last night, and they all came through with flying colors. They'll be boxed up and sent out on Monday via 2-day FedEx.

Next round of 9 units should be ready by 02/01.

so these things do everything right? I dont need a programmer eraser or anything of the sort just this. i'll have to save up for it its a little steep on my budget. everything is. So i need this and an adapter correct to make it work on my 730 ecm