Hi. I've been looking around at Holden ECM's and Have a few questions and requests to ask. I believe #1- Holden's 7808 is like a 7165 w no 8192 chip Used for Fuel only? #2 Holdens 16183082 is same but w 8192 Chip(Service Replacement) Can support TCC/AT? #3 16206305 is same as #2 If the 16183082 is the same as 1227165 can the 7165 use a 256k also Memcal EPROM size for VR & VS = 27c256, for VN & VP = 27c128. Or too make a long question short. Can anyone provide a bin and ECU w/ 808 type code w 8192 baud- MAP for 7165 w/ 8192 and TCC Stuff? I would REALLY APPRECIATE IT!!!! I think its worth checking out Ed

Sean (GMHVQ) who posts here sometimes has the $12 code from a 16183082 on his VQ Statesman, running on a '165. Another infrequent TGO poster, Adrian, did a wonderful job creating the ECU and put a copy up on the DIY-EFI site. There are a few minor errors that need correcting to use it.

The $12 mask must be the neatest SD code around- there are something like 250 constants and over 40 maps, including upper and lower VE maps (better resolution than the '808 masks) and it even appears to have the drivability testers' code with VE skewing in it. And 8192 ALDL as you've noted.

The ECU has TCC constants in it, but I'm not sure if it works, as the VR and VS Holden Commodores that used the '3082 were all manuals, and the 4L60E autos used a PCM.

The other thing you need is aldl logging software to suit the data stream. Mangus helped Sean sort this out. I have a copy of this stuff that I intend to use in my 5L VS SS manual- but the car is still in pieces all over my shed, so I haven't checked it out yet. PM me with your email details and I'll send you what I've got.

John

JohnL, I would like to see that also, if you don't mind sharing?
Thanx,
Ben.

Is there a bin file on diy-efi.org that would work as a base file to modify for my car? 350 5 speed.

thanks

The best site for a list of 16183082 cals and BCC's that I know of is here, and also the other "VR" cals branch (VR Commodores are from 1993-95 (that's what the $12 ECU is for), and VS goes '95 to 97 (utes longer, but different).

You could check to see if any of these BCC's are listed on diy-efi.org. Note that for the 5.7L engines you're interested in, you get a .bin with a $5b mask ID, and I don't know how much you'd need to modify the $12 ECU file to make it work.

I'd suggest you stick to .bins from the $12 mask and fiddle the injector constant to suit.

John

For TCC Control, DigitialHorsepower, will be releasing a small stand alone TCC controller. You can set it for TPS, and VSS inputs, and have a half decent TCC controller. And the TPS and VSS and selectible hysterisis, not a bad little unit. I happen to be Betatesting one for them, so far so good.

If you're going down the $5B path there's now an ECU for it <a href="http://www.moates.net/files/3)Binary Editor Definitions/16183082 $5B version 1.ecu" target="_blank">here</a>. The $12 just needed a bit of tweeking.

Adrian

Damn HTML crap, its at http://www.moates.net/files/ and it's called "16183082 $5B version 1.ecu"

Adrian

Wow Adrian!! 8 posts in your time on TGO and in that period you've posted the 2 best SD ECU's in Delcoworld. If you weren't taking up so much time posting on this site, you might have finished an auto .ECU by now!

John

You have mail

Adrian

:yourock:

Does this mean there is an auto ECM ? John Thanks again for the stuff. Adrian and John thanks for helping us do MAF to MAP. I tried a 7730 and the adapter harness was a PITA!. This is AWESOME!
Ed

The auto .ECU that I was giving Adrian a stir about is not for a '165 ECM unfortunately for you.

But as I posted earlier, the $12 .ECU seems to indicate that the TCC code is there- it would be just a matter of setting the parameters the same as a $5d '808 code to check. And you'd have to look at the transient fuelling to pick up the difference between manual and auto.

Short of analyis of the source code, I've got no idea how you'd establish if $12 code responds to a certain pin for the P/N switch from the auto, but it would be a good guess to try the same pin as in the '808 (that's already been posted by Tomcat).

Let's hear how you go.

John

Thanks for the tips and heads up I am waiting for my new memcal. Is the 6cyl knock board the same as an 8 I know the net res is not but am curious about the knock board because i ruined one and have a 6 cyl one avail. Thanks for being so upfront and kind. Its a real treat to have access to your experience and know how. Thanks Guys If you got a paypal acct JohnL I'd like to buy you a six pack.
Thanks
Ed

I had just recieved a HSV 5B bin and its size is 32k ; the normal 1227165 bin is 16k. I will try but just as a question. Is this bin compatable. I dunno. and have heard the ECM starts reading the chip at the 4000 thats why people have to stack bins to use 16k code on a 29f256 . Am I way off base. Has anyone used a BMZN bin in a 1227165.
Thanks
Ed

Buy me a six pack, Ed? Nice thought . I used to have a six pack when I was younger, but now I've got the whole beer barrel! Besides, if I wanted to get paid for distributing other blokes' hard work, my nick would be "Mechanic", and I'd be suing Funstick and Mangus. I just had another thought... If a six pack was the standard payment for helping someone on TGO then Grumpy, RBob and Trax would be drunkards.

I dunno if this is going to work on your engine. Just burn it on and see if it runs. Meanwhile I'll give Sean Treemer an email and ask him to chime in to tell you what he's done with his auto.

John

I did the code today and decided to leave as much as stock wiring complete w/o pulling pins. My car had MAF and I decided to try MAP. I unplugged the EGR diag by firewall middle by dist. The vapor purge on the Charcoal can, the two purges on the Air under the cover, & ended up cutting the gry wire for the EGR vac sel. at the emc leaving enough for a connector. And unpluged the far right relay MAF Burnoff in the corner by the L/S firewall. I previously put a 3.9K Knock into the driver side of the block and ran a wire for it to the ecm. I added the pin to harness at c11 for the Map signal ;from a boneyard pigtail). Then I had a MAP sensor zip tied up to the p/s rear support bar. Connected A-Ground into A-11 by striping the harness and soldering it in. Then connected B-Signal into my new pin at C11, and hooked C- 5v Ref into C14 the same way by teeing and soldering. Runs INCREDIDLE w/ 5D (808 Code) I have a surging Idle. But it runs hard like firm . In 3rd w/ 2.77@40ish and load it up you hear the whole car tweak and groan. SWEEEEEETTTTTTT I will be trying different cals soon.
I had a 7730 W an adapter harness but the 808 is a real nice alt its VE table goes to 7200 WOW. The spark ends @ 4.8k but you want what ever you need in by then and if you have a belt driven Jesel cam you and leave it looser for a high RPM retard.
I changed the Kinjflow to be closer to my setup. More to come.
P/S I used win bin and found each hex value increment to be aprox .009 of a ECU Value .For Example the valve of the bin in WinBin.Any hex value of 7C to valve 86 all shows .12 as the BPW in TunerPro and WinBin. counting places thats C,D,E,F,0,1,2,3,4,5,6- 11 places so your losing all that fine tuning in Your BPW using a Tuner for adjustment.
Sorry for the rambling . I do have a method to my madness !!!?
Hope this helps someone try this its GOOD!!!
Ed
Oh yeah I forgot to say I also Unplugged the MAF, Duh...

Ed, I've found the same problem with TunerPro as you have. It seems to be limited to 2 decimal places with calculated values, I used WinBin just as you did
Adrian

Adrian thanks for the really good ECU files they are quite the blessing.
Ed

Does anyone know if the 165 ecm will read the 32k file? If it can I was going to switch to the $12, it seems a little more adjustable then the $5d stuff for the 808, higher resolution on lower ve table, hiway lean, faster aldl and other stuff.

thanks adrian for the ecu files.

Why cant I find "16183082 $5B version 1.ecu" on the moates site when I follow the link?? I looked in about every file, shouldnt it be in hac's and ECU's ??? Where is it??

"http://www.moates.net/files/3[/url])%20Binary%20Editor%20Definitions/16183082%20$5B%20version%201.ecu"

Copy and paste the url between the quotes into your browser.

As per the question of $12 code I read it has a memory offset Does that allow it to work in a 1227165?
Ed

Does anyone know which is the P/N pin on the ECM?

As an update to my own conversion. I built the one transistor interface with external 12v off of the WinALDL site and hard wired it to the ECM pin Check Engine / Data to pin A5 12v to I believe A-1 and Ground to C-16 ECM- Earth Engine I dont have a Ecm diagram in hand so please DOUBLE Check the pin #'s . This way when I insert a 10k resistor in A&B of the ALDL it starts transmitting data.

3.9K Knock sensor goes to pin b11

Which Mask, and .bin are you using?.
You're using a 165 wired up as a 808, if I read this right, yes?.

Grumpy ,
Exactly 808 wiring, psuedo ASBX bin.
Right Now I am running Tomcat's Pontiac 305 nunzio.bin with the injector constant changed to .1095 (76 Hex) 5D mask and using the 1227808_5d version 5 ECU in TunerPro.
FWIW, I am wondering if this def can get any better :-) than this file because it's so incredibly well defined.
For Ex. The Flags functions are all explained in the ECU item editor section. This is a really nice treat to have Available to us.
Thanks to all you Aussies for your invaluable help from down under w Holden info and files.

Ed

Ive been poking around my $32b mask and the more i do the more im thinking its time to upgrade to $8d or save a few bucks with $12. Can we use the 100k k/s and external esc module with the $12 mask and leave it connected to terminal b7 as on the 165 puter? Or is there no way around using the 3.9 sensor and memcal from a 730 puter?

thanks

Never done it myself, but if you read the original thread on this conversion Here the conclusion seemed to be that you had to use the '730 memcal & 3.9k sensor
Adrian

I have been using the $5d software on a 808 for a while running a 4 cylinder
Does anyone know if the $12 software will run on a 4 cylinder, I have tried changing the KNUMCYLS: Number of engine cylinders (6 or 8) to 4 but it doesn’t make a difference.
any help would be appreciated.

And thanks john for the data stream file

Ross

No not copied from kalmaker as that is a completely rewritten program .
Thanks for the $8d stuff must go to the early days of diyefi , it was a very well documented definition that I believe fell out of Holden

I believe your wrong.
The early days of DIY_EFI were truely about DIY. The guys that I know from that era, probably wouldn't have even looked at it, if it was laying on their desk. Let alone try to pass it off as their own work. Lots of folks actually give credit where credit is do. Then there are those that don't, and some that try to take credit for things they just pirated.

Prom related comment,
If you read thur the code, and/or the partical hacs, the answer about how to use different Knocks Sensors is out there.

Bruce, Daniel's not saying that the $5d ECU referenced earlier in this post results from DIY-EFI reverse engineering, or that anyone is claiming the reverse engineering as their own work, but that the Caldata sheet that allowed such a good ECU file to be made "fell out of Holden".

I don't think we should draw attention to this publicly for obvious reasons. Maybe the engineers involved would like others to see the aesthetic appeal of their work- if so, thanks very much . Let's hope they keep the information on "obsolete" binaries coming so that we all can have fun with their work. And thanks again to the blokes that have spent a heap of time translating this info into great ECU's.

John

Amen!!! That is just a really neat/complete ECU. I am glad to be able to use it to make changes. Thanks to ALL for EVERYTHING!!! Keep the group effort going.
Ed

Having been the one to have posted the original rather complete 808 stuff on DIY-EFI, I know it had nothing to do with any Caldata sheet. I had gotten a series of .bin files and compared them to each other, a disassembly, and gotten some notes form down under, but none of it was based on any thing that fell out of Holden. This was all going on during the 101 episode.

He did make the inference to something having been related to Holden, when in fact it wasn't.

It was a community effort, at least intially. What's transpired since I don't know and don't care about. There's been a ton of intial work that was done at DIY that lead to alot of other things. Claiming this or that as an absolute just is proper, IMO.

The universe is full of pararel developement. Just because some saw something or had possession of some of it, doesn't mean everyone did.

You are correct Grumpy , programming 101 which you had a huge part in did dissasemble a lot of the 808 $5d code , all the other stuff though that documented the correct names etc and every location was from a caldoc that was floating around the internet.
Not trying to take any credit or anything away from the great work that was and has been done , just was stating a fact on the defintion files I have made and other have done have been mostly from those docs.
shame the comunity has sort of disappeared except for this great section on diy-prom , every other area has tried to use the information to keep it to themslves and profit from it to the detrement of DIY

Grumpy we all KNOW that you and the if not for the inital/on-going gm ecm from programing 101 to Real time Emulators/ Super defined discovered locations/ The standard for ECM Defs defined by "__________"Thanks to Everyone Involvedl!!! The combining of a group effort made it all possible.
ThankYou. Thanks. Thank You all VERY MUCH.
Everyone has helped me along so so much with info, insight, and their own experienceswhich combined has made me want to continue to learn and define what is a Smooth / Reliable and MEAN PIECE OF MACHINERY!. I am going to try and learn as much as possible to help a friend that is considering a HALTECH for a twin turbo 350 done right. He only wants 700 hp but is using parts for 800+

I wish to thank all of you guys from down under allowing Good ol boys access to your local knowledge( learned in Commodores and by trial and Error. Adrian, JohnL, Tomcat you all gave me the tools to continue along with me testing. Those crazy Aussies are running 808 w kalmaker and gm code on everything from lexus Quad cam v8's to Airplanes.
Ed

What do you guys use to datalog the 16183082?

TIA

Ben,
Efilive V4 can be downloaded from the Starr Performance website. I think there's probably a version of Carbytes that will also do the job. I also have an ADS file that Mark Mansur and Sean did some work on, but I haven't tried that yet.

John

Thanks John,

I downloaded EFILive v4, but can't get it past the license key screen yet.. The link to starr to obtain the license is dead..

[quote=edfirebird;1747119]Hi.
I've been looking around at Holden ECM's and Have a few questions and requests to ask.
I believe
#1- Holden's 7808 is like a 7165 w no 8192 chip
Used for Fuel only?

#2 Holdens 16183082 is same but w 8192 Chip(Service Replacement) Can support TCC/AT?

#3 16206305 is same as #2

If the 16183082 is the same as 1227165 can the 7165 use a 256k also

Memcal EPROM size for VR & VS = 27c256, for VN & VP = 27c128.

hi, the vr commodores use a 27C512 eprom.
vs use a 27C010

mark k

Here's all the files i have and used.
Ed

here's what i got hth
ed