I'm on the same page with Synapsis, A basic functional unit that would output the 0-5V for one output, a programable range second output for use as the OEM O2 input on the ECM. IMHO additional items as displays and other inputs would be fluff. I think a major portion of the crowd uses datalogs to figure what needs to be done to correct the AFR tune. The ability to have it part of the operating system and left there would be the plus (without adding new holes)

There is a lot I could say with the WB subject, a whole lot. What I would like to say here and now is that before anyone purchases a WB unit is to do some due diligence on the company selling it

After the release of the DIY-WB too many people thought that they too could release a WB unit. All it took was a simple understanding of the DIY-WB circuit right? Wrong. There is a lot more to controlling a WB sensor then some fundamental understanding of electronic circuits.

The aspect of due diligence is important. A web search will help more then I can put into words here to what due diligence is. Basically speaking it is a check out of the company, officers, engineers, and previous track record of products.


As for a few things that I would like to say, I will again repeat an important item: there were better designs on the drawing boards for the next release of the DIY-WB. The whole premise was that this WB unit would be incrementally improved. This was dropped the instant the DIY-WB design was taken for profit, with supporters of that taking.

I did an interesting proof of concept design. With a '730 ECM, a single external resistor and a single external capacitor a killer WB controller can be created. A lessor '7747/'8063/'8746 ECM could also be used by disabling the internal PnH on the injector driver.

Before anyone thinks that I am speaking out of turn, every single DIY-WB PCB has my initials on it. Every single one. . .

RBob.

Okay Craig.. my vote goes to 1.5 - here's my thoughts, though I'm pretty much with Synapsis on this.

I want a simple, sub-$100 (sans sensor of course,) controller that does the following:

0-5v output (for a display AND/OR datalogging through ECM)
0-1v output (for the ECM)

That's it.

The DIY AF meter that Bill and I presented can be used as a remote display; it does *not* have to be linearized since ours can be setup that way.

Every setup I see out there has feature creep BIG TIME and the price goes up accordingly. Not everyone is going to want a display; some are just going to want to send a 0-5v signal into an extra A/D channel on their ECM and log it. One thing I *do* know is that I (and a lot of others) would like to see is the simple 0-1v output to the stock ECM so you don't have to put another O2 sensor in the exhaust. It's simply a pain in the ***, and I don't want to have to do it.

If you build a CHEAP one, people will buy it because it's cheap. They'll figure out a way to datalog or display the data.

I may purchase the Zeitronix just because I want one NOW; I'm tired of my car sitting in the driveway because I don't have a good WBO2 to see what's going on.

I also think you should consult with RBob about the design. You might find it well worth your while.

Craig you have my vote for 1.5 that is equivalent to:

Synapsis
JP86SS
Ken73
Cobra289

Is there a task force formed? Craig, RBob, others?

Regards,
Cobra289

Sounds like fun. Hope its something Craig can tackle (with his basic knowledge of circuits and all).

Heck, the whole thing could be modular. All the controller itself needs to output is 0-5v.

For those who'd want it, you can put inline with that a converter to linearly convert the 0-5v to 0-1v (and pass the output to your ECM and/or NB display).

You could also have a module that takes the 0-5v and display lambda/AFR/Voltage based on lookup tables for those who want realtime display.

And a final module could easily take the 0-5v and output a serial datastream for those who wish to log without ALDL.

Good stuff. But then, maybe its so overwhelmingly complex that my feeble and inadequate mind simply melts away any true concept of WB reality. Either way, its 3am, I've been programming for 8 hours straight (4.0 baby), and its time for something that hopefully closely resembles sleep.

'night.

Mark, that's the whole point though, all those features are available with other units. We just need a *simple* one that outputs 0-5v and 0-1v. Nothing else. Making it modular would just make it feature-creep by default, and kludgy at best. Not to mention cost, which is a big factor around here.

Also, as for the Zeitronix unit, I looked and looked and could NOT find *anything* about a warranty, nor an address on their website. That makes me a little nervous.

With the advent of the Speedreader, everyone can have a spare A/D input for 0-5v to datalog with, as well.

I know I for one don't want a big kludgy unit hanging out somewhere; I'd like something I can tuck away and forget.

Zeitronix DOES DO do group buys with price cuts at 10 and 20 units. Check here: http://www.zeitronix.com/gb/rennlist.htm $250 at 10 units and $240 at 20 units. That's even cheaper.

The whole point is to do it cheap. Making it modular such that the base unit doesn't need any extra components keeps things cheap. The modularity that I describe would not increase the base cost.

I'm definitely in the "1.5" group.....I don't need an external display, I was hoping Craig and Mark could manage to get it to work with TunerPro's ALDL logging or something like that, so that we can do it all in one program.

Since this pertains to the PROM people, I don't see why we'd need to do anything other than 0-5 and 0-1 volt output for ECM and computer logging....none of the PROMmers would be dealing with a carb that would require an external display.

I really think we should try to go simple with it to keep cost down. And definitely try to accommodate both sensors available, to prepare for future price fluctuations.

I think someone should start a new thread and really gauge the interest around here....I bet you'd be surprised!

At least, a new thread with the right title would grab more people than this one.

There is an opportunity for you all.
Support Craig initiative @ http://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/show...16#post1898316

Cobra289

I really like the AEM unit. I like the idea of having a gauge to monitor when driving or racing (especially for the power adder guys). I thought the AEM would be nice with the 0-5 Volt output to run Mike Davis' WB AUJP code to datalog with Datamaster. Unfortunatly the AEM uses the Bosch sensor that has a different output curve than the NTK sensor that the code was written for. I'd be nice to see someone modify the code to work with the Bosch sensor. Then you could build a cheap circuit that uses the cheaper Bosch sensor and be able to datalog also. Maybe also one with an optional gauge like AEM's. Just my 2 cents.

I'm definately interested in a 1.5 setup too. Just wideband and narrowband outputs.

I've got a hairdryer setup in the works and I'll definately need one by the time it gets together. I'd like to pick one up in the next couple of months though.

Ok, I was away for a few days- but I must add that I would want....make that require a display or a simple display option on the unit I purchase. How about making it use one of those comercially avail bar graph displays they sell in like a 2" guage size? I would also want one input for say, RPM to log. I do have carbed cars as well as my SC EFI Vette, so with the cost we're looking at it has to be flexible enough to work with all my cars. It doesnt need to record, I could run the laptop for that if there was some simple software or something for it (with a carbed car). Make it round $100 without sensor and I will buy it.

it really is a shame that the diywb got ripped off and sold for profit. some of the ideas/upgrades that were 'in the works' sounded really cool.

is there any chance that any of this stuff will ever get released? once all the "other" WB's are released, and then upgraded, and everyone is bought in; there can't be (too?) much loss to releasing it, but a gain for those who simply like DIY and given a $200 built unit or a $200 DIY unit that do the same thing, are likely to choose the DIY...

i wish i had circuit design expertise to lend, but my experience is pretty limited. i'd offer to assemble and test alpha/beta versions though...solder and follow directions, I can.

I'm not particularly excited about the surface mount idea. It sounds like that would be something very hard for me to solder.

Just for the heck of it, I contacted Dynojet about their receptiveness to a group purchase on these:

http://www.widebandcommander.com/

They list for $529.95 on the web site (ouch!) but this does include free lifetime software/firmware updates via website download. They have a nice FAQ section on the website - check it out.

They responded that group purchases are welcome, with the following pricing structure:

5 units - $424 ea.
10 units - $403 ea.
25 units - $383 ea.
50 units - $363 ea.
100 units - $345 ea.

Looks like a really nice and complete kit, mostly useful to those of us running off the computer but with a large enough group purchase I think it is a viable option for many people here. If we could get 25+ people interested then I would consider this one myself.

Michael