A new thread to discuss a V4+ S_AUJP. Thoughts are to incorporate all the recent patches into 1 bin and start from there. This would include: 1. Starting with the V3 patch for bigger motors. 2. Z69's extended VE2 table to replace RBobs extended VE2 for better resolution. This keeps the original lower table intact and only replaces the upper table. Maybe a new VEMaster type file to automatically adjust the VE tables included for better user acceptence. 3. Include the WBO2 hacs for datalogging. 4. A new IMAT table for a relocated MAT? 5. Include a ads file to use with the bin, XDF, release? I have a XDF that is pretty close to releasing to go with it. It has 3 extended tables -the original, Rbob's, and Z69's incorporated. This can put the extended VE tables to rest and move users to the newer extended table. I know that some people want a VE table to 7k but I do not see it especially since the PE tables only go to 6400. I just need to install the ALDL 'words' to log the WBO2 info and it is ready to go. I added the WBO2 scaling tables but may need better naming conventions. The WBO2 scaling tables could even be removed as they should not need to be touched. V5+ can be the closed loop WBO2 release if it gets done. I can support in the xdf and testing arena. I am just getting a little overwhelmed with trying to keep track of the bin patches and what has what. I am ready to do WBO2 tuning and I think the above settings will not hurt anybody.

5.) You got mail

I like the idea of the relocated MAT table.

I think this is a great idea. I cannot spearhead this effort. Why? Since I no longer have a thirdgen it just wouldn't be fair and I wouldn't be able to test it. Somebody else needs to spearhead this effort.

Tim

As long as you have to run a relocated MAT sensor and you modify or buy the correct sensor....
To me you simply have to enter the numbers posted by Glenn into the stock table. Not all that hard.
I guess you could include a constant so people could enter
one table addy or the other.

AFAIK, the 8D is using the MAT sensor to correct the AFR
based on how much the intake plenum is heating up the air.
That's why it uses a shielded sensor. It wants to know the metal temp. Not the IAT.
And it uses a mass flow correction to compensate for cruise and wot.
Lots of people think they need a IAT because the MAT just has to be skewed by heat soak. Which is 100% correct thinking . And exactly how GM designed it.

It would also be nice if more than the 3 of us made input.

Altered O2 constants?

I know that some people use the latest version on a near stock app since it has to be the best. But at some point that has to stop.


I haven't had time to look into adding Launch Mode.
Or any other feature creep.

I know that there is a thread that discusses the MAT sensor differences between the LT1's, etc. Apparently the only differences are the housings. They are all function the same. If Trax gives permission to take over the project then I am fine with 3 people for now. When something needs to be done the results can be based on need and want at the time it is being done. I am at a point where I want to dump all my old bins, patches, xdf's, and start with a new baseline. Sometimes it just takes a push like this to get going. Regardless I am going the direction posted above and I thought it would be a good way to move forward as a group so that future needs can be focused on like WBO2.

I'm in that same position.
Come springtime, I'll have a whole new setup to play with

FWIW I'm glad to see this effort, although since I really haven't had time to sink my teeth into the '730 sufficiently (work, honey-do list, etc.) I can't really offer much help, just words of encouragement. If, or when, it gets done I would like to blast it to a chip and try it. Thanks guys.

Never picked up on that.
Dang your getting good at this

I think you have a good setup for a V4 69 Ghost, like I said in my mail it would be best to keep the bin, ads, and xdf in a single zip so versions could be handled nicely. If an error or ommision is found simply increment the number and upload it.
S_AUJP V4000.bin
S_AUJP V4000.ads
S_AUJP V4000.xdf

For now just some common concensus on what patches are used the most and features really needed.

Z69, As far as your other note, I'm going to take this out to left field

Edited: Started new thread "The great $8D list"

I posted in the other thread, but would be happy to test anything I can. Only problem is I'm a manual tranny guy....

I haven't fully researched it. But if you look in the seq table under the oil temp read. You'll see about zero going on.
Not even oil temp in AUJP. Nice spot to add things I think.

My other car has a MT. So I'll get around to that eventually.

This is a bit off the subject but here is my understanding of some of the replys. The vette bins use an oil temp sensor and blend that into the water temp then use that in the code. They incorporated that when the vettes went away from an external oil cooler. The space will be free for code as long as any XDF definitions are not needed in that area it would be OK to use the area.
Z69 as for the MAT I thought it was as stated a Manifold Air Temp sensor. There is a thread that goes into this. The IAT is a Inlet Air Temp. The IMAT tables compensate for the heating affect that the manifold has on the air because it is placed in the manifold. It still measures air temp. Both the IATs and MATs measure the air temp exactly the same way so they can be interchanged. One has a screw in metal housing the other a plastic plug in housing.

Back to the subject. I was going to add another file that would convert a stock table into the extended table. We could use something like VEPhd or just a plain excel spreadsheet that would take the table and average the differences between the existing cells and the newer cells. This will give the users an easy way to convert tables and they can run VEMaster on the bins by just using the existing tables locations.

I deffinitely want to see more VEMaster stuff!

The actual sensor element is the same and works the same way correct.
But the shielded TPI sensor has a very slow response time to the air temp as it has to cool the entire metal shield.
The same shield which is threaded into the plenum and in direct contact with the plenum. So the plenum temp will have the majority of effect on the sensor element. Just ask the blower guys for a datalog using the stock sensor in the plenum. I found one while on TGO while researching mat sensors. Very obvious what's going on when you look at map and mat. Mat barely moves yet the blower discharge at that boost is in the 150*f range.

The plastic sensors are not in contact with the plenum and are open to the air. About the opposite thermodynamically of the brass shielded TPI MAT/CTS sensor. I'll send you some pics when I get a chance. Once you see the two sensors and how they are mounted. You'll see what the intent was of the design. Don't take my word for it. Read Rbobs stickie and come to your own conclusion.

ttt

Is this new version primarily to support a WBO2, or is this also in improvement on the existing S_AUJP? just wondering.

Hopefully both

My vote and preference would go to making it a pure "aujp" defined and assembleable for doing tuning changes in the actual source code and recompiling.

Then backing it up with a TDF from TunerCat and also making known pure and working XDF and ADS files for TunerPro.

That way know one will be guessing what is done or has been done and has the "purest" version with no modifications whatsoever.

Modifications that do not include any tuning changes are acceptable, like the wideband input and extended VE tables

later
Jeremy

Really?.
I've isolated the sensor from the housing using a nylon pipe thread reducer, and saw no measurable difference in sensor reaction time to temp change.

I've also not seen, any measurable difference between an sheilded sensor compared to an exposed sensor element, compared to the plastic housing version.

While maybe there is some differences, it's all rather moot if the sensor is only sampled at a rate slow enough that the response to temp change is slower then the sampling rate.

The "pure" file is good but having the CCP out and the other tweaks from the original S_AUJP are still "liked" by many and should remain.
The original can be tweaked to be the same if needed and the patches for WB and extended VE applied.
I think everything is moving in the right direction.

Almost time... ?

With a concurrent release of XDF, ADS. I am ready.

What is the best way to go Wide Band O2? How do I implement it into my wiring harness, and Bin?
I'm interested in updating to WBO2, but don't know how to get going.

A search for "wide band datalogging" might be a good start.
That, or the FAQ sticky post
http://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/show...threadid=92543

WOW - this is sounding pretty imminent. Sounds Great!!!

Start here
http://thirdgen.org/techbb2/showthre...hreadid=318849
Might be what your looking for.
basically read the notes in the zip file and go.
Copy over your current tables to those bins or tune from scratch with the stock values.

I was just stirring the pot a bit
I know its getting close. Z' must be busy, havn't heard from him in a couple days (maybe he's getting some sleep finally)

Making a database now for crosschecking ALL of the $8D XDF definition items out there.
Doing it in a text editor was driving me insane. Have all the constants able to be ripped out, working on the Flags now. Tables last.
Hope it works.

Almost ready to test all the mods out on the bench.
Then we'll need at least one in car test.
This will end up being more of a consolidation of currently available stuff. Just not enough time to figure out the best way to do the new things and all the other related stuff that has to be done too......

You under value your work!

Items 1, 2, and 3 are included and done.
4 is not really needed, 5 a & 5 b are in the works.

And the code is relocatable.
Not too bad so far

Sounding pretty awesome, actually!

Life has gotten in the way of progress on this.
But I did manage to get a version out to an MT tester a few months ago.
We're still having issues with some of the new features.
JP is trying to get a light to turn on, while my version the light stays on all the time.
But neither of us have had much time to persue the problem.

So is anyone with an A4 willing to test? JP's car is disassembled and my car isn't a good test candidate either with a T350. Not to mention it's been in storage a few months.
The MT tests have gone well with zero driveability problems reported in several months of daily use.

I'd like someone that can do it soon. Not 2 months from now and preferably more than an hour a week useage. Only the ability to burn Proms and minor tuning skill is needed. The tune is the same as S_aujp_V3.
But I'm used to swapping in other peoples' cal data.

Z69 I was wondering when you were going to show. I know you've been busy you just disappeared. Although I have been having datalogging problems on top of everything else. I think I have some of the issues sorted. I am in the process of needing to do some real good logs to get my tables back in shape after some radical changes to my injector constants and some other tables to get my pulse widths up to where they are needed. I have some ideas on modding the ALDL to help track the BPW and see the changes.

Z69,
I'll be more than willing to test for you.

Open heart surgery is just about done.

Hope to fire in a week. Time is still short but am working on it at night.
It'll be open headers for the first runs until I can get the new exhaust on
Might have to pull the WB so I don't thermal shock it on the collector.
Shouldn't take me long to rough in a bin for this new combo then I'll be ready to play with anything (NVSRAM board is calling me)

I've been holding off the knock light until I could do some quick testing on different outputs. That "F5" just doesn't do what its told. I really want to know why.
Its an easy chuck of code to insert if I can make that output work. There will need to be other mods to the code if another is used to disable anything that would have effects on it.
Eric, I'm more than happy to help you with the ALDL mods. I just didn't know exactly what addreses you wanted in there in place of what.
Let me know.

I love seeing faces of the little folk in our car shots... :-) My 4 yr old is obsessed with racing/speed/cars.

Gotta love the feeling of firing up a new engine. Although the open headers may not be good on the ear drums or relations with the neighbors.

That's the joy of it
Never get to do it again cuz everybody complains about it so you tell them you fixed it so it won't be "as loud" and they aren't bothered by it as much.

My little motorhead Morgan. She knows what all the parts are called !
(Proud Daddy)
Other two don't want anything to do with it but rides.