DIY PROMDo It Yourself PROM chip burning help. No PROM begging. No PROMs for sale. No commercial exchange. Not a referral service.
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So what are going to be the physical problems that need to be looked at on this project? What about the IAC? Would it be better to just adapt the Caddy IAC setup to work or try and get it to work with the TPI IAC setup? What are some ways to make that work? How long do you think it will be before TunerCat supports this ECM? Can you use adapters or zifs with this setup so you can pull and install different chips? - Justin
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I started working on a pinout comparison. It's in MS Excel format. Whoever wants a copy, please e-mail me at ultm8z@yahoo.com. Or better yet, if someone could host the file for me, then it'd be free for download.
It's surprising how many of the pinouts are the same between the 7730 and 2240 (hail to GM for standarization!). About 50% of the pins do not need alteration on the 7730 harness.
Sheet "Schematic Data" is simply a data dump from the schematics... copying down the signals, circuit numbers, wire color, etc, from the 7730 and 2240 ECMs.
Sheet "Pin to Pin Compare" is the pinout comparison. Lines in green do not need to be repinned- they match. LInes in yellow need to be repinned. Blank lines do not exist on the 7730 harness and need to be populated.
In other words, column A is the signal that the Caddy ECM expects to see. Column B is the where that signal is on the Caddy ECM. Column C is where that signal is on the 7730 harness. For any given signal, if the harness location already matches the ECM location (green color code), great. If it does not match (yellow color code), then that 7730 harness wire needs to be relocated to the correct position to match the ECM. If the cell in column C is blank, then that circuit is something new to the 7730 harness and a new wire will need to be routed to that spot.
Originally posted by ULTM8Z I started working on a pinout comparison. It's in MS Excel format. Whoever wants a copy, please e-mail me at ultm8z@yahoo.com. Or better yet, if someone could host the file for me, then it'd be free for download.
Another thing to look into is I am very positive that the late model Holden V8's, around 96-98, (before they switched to the LS1) were SFI and had a distributor.
Yes I got a email from somebody where the holdens had TPI's with 4l60 tranny's -electronic control. The ECM I believe was a 808. The Holdens may hold the key here for something much easier to convert to.
Originally posted by 69 Ghost Yes I got a email from somebody where the holdens had TPI's with 4l60 tranny's -electronic control. The ECM I believe was a 808. The Holdens may hold the key here for something much easier to convert to.
The 808 is the Aussie version of the 165.
Relying on ecms not made in the states, seems to be an odd thing to do. At times customs will take months to clear a box of automotive parts. Sometimes it's just 10 day time table to ship to or from there, but at times it's a PITB.
Originally posted by ULTM8Z I'll probably do a parts search to see how many different models came with this computer, try to widen the prospects...
Not very many cars had this pcm compared to something like the 7730. Here's the list:
Code:
1993 CADILLAC DEVILLE TOURING V8 4.9L 300cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = B
1993 CADILLAC DEVILLE V8 4.9L 300cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = B
1993 CADILLAC ELDORADO V8 4.9L 300cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = B
1993 CADILLAC FLEETWOOD 60 SPECIAL V8 4.9L 300cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = B
1993 CADILLAC FLEETWOOD V8 5.7L 350cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 7
1993 CADILLAC SEVILLE V8 4.9L 300cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = B
1992 CADILLAC ALLANTE V8 4.5L 273cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 8
1992 CADILLAC DEVILLE TOURING V8 4.9L 300cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = B
1992 CADILLAC DEVILLE V8 4.9L 300cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = B
1992 CADILLAC ELDORADO V8 4.9L 300cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = B
1992 CADILLAC FLEETWOOD 60 SPECIAL V8 4.9L 300cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = B
1992 CADILLAC FLEETWOOD V8 4.9L 300cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = B
1992 CADILLAC SEVILLE STS V8 4.9L 300cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = B
1992 CADILLAC SEVILLE V8 4.9L 300cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = B
1991 CADILLAC ALLANTE V8 4.5L 273cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 8
1991 CADILLAC DEVILLE TOURING V8 4.9L 300cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = B
1991 CADILLAC DEVILLE V8 4.9L 300cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = B
1991 CADILLAC ELDORADO V8 4.9L 300cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = B
1991 CADILLAC FLEETWOOD 60 SPECIAL V8 4.9L 300cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = B
1991 CADILLAC FLEETWOOD V8 4.9L 300cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = B
1991 CADILLAC SEVILLE STS V8 4.9L 300cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = B
1991 CADILLAC SEVILLE V8 4.9L 300cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = B
1990 CADILLAC ALLANTE V8 4.5L 273cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 8
1990 CADILLAC DEVILLE V8 4.5L 273cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 3
1990 CADILLAC ELDORADO V8 4.5L 273cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 3
1990 CADILLAC FLEETWOOD 60 SPECIAL V8 4.5L 273cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 3
1990 CADILLAC FLEETWOOD V8 4.5L 273cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 3
1990 CADILLAC FLEETWOOD V8 4.5L 273cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 5
1990 CADILLAC SEVILLE STS V8 4.5L 273cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 3
1990 CADILLAC SEVILLE V8 4.5L 273cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 3
EDIT:
This is for the 16132240 PCM which also has a updated part number which is 88999176 (ACDelco #216-90).
I also found something overlooked. The 4.9L (NOT Northstar) engine was used in the 1994 and 1995 caddy deville which used a differnt ecm. Here are the part numbers for this ecm: 16196347, 16197426, 88961139. That is something that should be looked into also.
Went to the boneyard this morning. The VERY FIRST CAR on the lot was a 1990 Sedan Deville with the SEFI V8. The engine was even out of the car on the ground right in front of the vehicle. Almost like it was meant to be!
Picked up the wiring harness, distributor and computer.
The ECM P/N is now confirmed... 16132240. And it is in fact a 7730 style computer. It also has the standard EPROM in it. But, man, it was a b*tch to get out of the car. It's tucked up behind the glove box. Had to literally break the passenger side of the dash off to get at it. And even then, there was other stuff in front of it that I had to rip out.
The injector harnesses are separate harnesses (left and right side) and each plug into the main engine harness. I ended up going all the way back to the firewall before I cut it so as to get as much of the factory wiring as possible. The harness is actually in very good shape... somewhat dirty, but mechanically very sound.
The distributor uses a srew-on type large HEI cap, not the Corvette style clamp on. However, that shouldn't be an issue since I'll be transplanting the guts into my distributor.
On the IAC, RBob is right, the IAC is a linear actuator that pushes on the throttle arm. However, I'm sure there's a way to make the ECM work with a TPI IAC motor.
Stupid me though, I forgot some necessary tools so I couldn't get the TPS or the IAC off ..
In any case, I'm pretty certainly going ahead with this conversion if Tunercat comes up with a definition file for this ECM. The broadcast code on the PROM is BWYP btw.
I'll be taking lots of pictures and documenting everything I do, in order to post the conversion on my website. Provided I'm successful, everyone will have access to it.
Has anybody checked into other things such as dual O2's, electronic tranny, knock sensors, etc? There may be more to it than this. Also is there a waterproof version of the 2240?
ULTM8Z,
Do you have prom burning equipment? Can you get a copy of the bin posted? Also if you go back to the junk yard see if you can get a later model PCM from the 94-95 Deville, as talked about in a few posts up. That ECM may be running a later and improved code.
Awesome man. Can you post a few pictures of everything? I think i'm going to run to the local junkyard by me and snatch a few parts. How much did it end up costing you? - Justin
Originally posted by 89 Iroc Z ULTM8Z,
Do you have prom burning equipment? Can you get a copy of the bin posted? Also if you go back to the junk yard see if you can get a later model PCM from the 94-95 Deville, as talked about in a few posts up. That ECM may be running a later and improved code.
Awesome man. Can you post a few pictures of everything? I think i'm going to run to the local junkyard by me and snatch a few parts. How much did it end up costing you? - Justin
I'll snap a few shots and post them.
It costed me about $80. Probably more than it's really worth, but I figured... what the hell?
I did some research on the caddy ISC (Idle speed control) motor. When the throttle switch is active on the ISC the PCM will take control of the idle speed. The PCM just applies plus or minus 12v to move the ISC motor plunger out or in, thus opening or closing the throttle body blades. Most people are familiar with IAC motor on a TPI motor which is a stepper motor. This motor must be driven with pulses and not a direct voltage like the caddy ISC motor. You will not be able to directly connect a TPI style IAC to the caddy PCM.
You can find a ton of circuits on electronic hobbyist web sites for driving stepper motors. With some tinkering you may be able to use a stepper motor driver circuit to drive the TPI style IAC with the original caddy PCM signal. I just thinking out loud, no idea if it can actually be implemented.
i didn't read through all the posts, so if im repeating some things, sorry.
they do the fuel trims on a per bank setup, i.e., left bank/left trim, right bank/right trim.
so they do have 2 o2 sensors. so, make sure you wire up the injectors to the proper banks & the o2 sensors to the corresponding banks, or you will have fueling problems.
i don't think you would want to use the caddy ISC, or idle speed controller, those things are nothing but problems, they have a troublesome nose switch in them so the ECM knows if you on
the gas or not, the motors on them also are known for going out, they are junk as far as im concerned. why GM used them as long as they did is beyond me when they had the much better IAC setup. hopefully someone will come up with the changes needed in the ECM & how to wire up the IAC so it works properly.
the cam sensor is so the ECM knows where cylinder number 1 is at.
it is also a some what troublesome part, a single post reluctor & pickup coil may be better if the ECM can be adapted to use it instead.
some repair books say the motor won't start without that signal, but every caddy i have seen with a bad cam sensor fires right up. they just don't run like they should.
there shouldn't be any problem using a standard TPS wired up properly on a caddy ECM. they all use the same 5 volt signal, a ground, & a signal return.
you may also want to get both the climate control unit & the other unit, i can't think of its name right now, its to the left side of the steering column in the dash & it has the fuel remaining readout, & fuel usage readout along with some other things in it, the caddy ECM uses them for diagnostics if you don't happen to have a scanner handy.
caddy does the EGR system more than a little different,.. they turn on the EGR valve solenoid 100% at idle & then use exhaust back pressure to control the EGR valve. this should be nothing
more than a change to the bin file to get right.
the caddy ECMs do have a small reliability problem,.. i think mostly related to bad grounds & injector problems, those caddy injectors are worse than what the third gens came with as far as
shorting out internally goes. make sure you have good grounds & 1 or 2 extras wouldn't hurt.
its too bad this thread wasn't started sooner, i have had 3 caddy ECMs out in the last week.
i still have a 91 in the shop, ill try to remember to get the bin for it monday.
Originally posted by DENN_SHAH you may also want to get both the climate control unit & the other unit, i can't think of its name right now, its to the left side of the steering column in the dash & it has the fuel remaining readout, & fuel usage readout along with some other things in it, the caddy ECM uses them for diagnostics if you don't happen to have a scanner handy.
Here is a picture of these units so everyone can see. I wouldn't bother with climate control, it's to much of a hassle. But if the "fuel data center" doesn't take too much work to hook up then it might be another plus of this PCM.
Here's the rotor Somehow I'm going to have to adapt this thing onto my distributor shaft, since this one is way too short for a SBC.
You can see the plate that runs through the hall effect sensor. Also note how one of the teeth on the reluctor wheel is missing so as to allow installation/removal of the shaft with the hall effect sensor on.
Here's some of the guts of the Caddy distributor. Need to adapt that reluctor into the Corvette HEI somehow. The rest of the stuff is standard HEI electronics hardware (cool!)
Originally posted by 89 Iroc Z I did some research on the caddy ISC (Idle speed control) motor. When the throttle switch is active on the ISC the PCM will take control of the idle speed. The PCM just applies plus or minus 12v to move the ISC motor plunger out or in, thus opening or closing the throttle body blades. Most people are familiar with IAC motor on a TPI motor which is a stepper motor. This motor must be driven with pulses and not a direct voltage like the caddy ISC motor. You will not be able to directly connect a TPI style IAC to the caddy PCM.
You can find a ton of circuits on electronic hobbyist web sites for driving stepper motors. With some tinkering you may be able to use a stepper motor driver circuit to drive the TPI style IAC with the original caddy PCM signal. I just thinking out loud, no idea if it can actually be implemented.
I suppose one way around the IAC problem is to simply run the idle speed off a 7730 ECM. Run all the inputs the 7730 needs to maintain idle, and only use it to control the IAC. It's alot more hardware than is really necessary, but maybe it would work.
On the other hand, maybe some of the unused pins on the on the Caddy ECM was designated to run a stepper motor type IAC, but the Caddy's never used it??? Are there any clues in the code? Hopefully one of our guru hackers could find out...
Originally posted by DENN_SHAH
so they do have 2 o2 sensors. so, make sure you wire up the injectors to the proper banks & the o2 sensors to the corresponding banks, or you will have fueling problems.
Are you certain? I didn't see two O2 sensor signal wires on the schematic....
Originally posted by ULTM8Z I suppose one way around the IAC problem is to simply run the idle speed off a 7730 ECM. Run all the inputs the 7730 needs to maintain idle, and only use it to control the IAC.
I always like to have things the simplest as possible to preform the desired task, running another ECM just to run IAC would be a complete nightmare! Either find a way to run the TPI IAC on the caddy ECM or find a way to use a simple stepper motor drive circuit to drive the TPI IAC to keep things simple. If you have to run two ecm's it's definitely easier to mount the opti optical sensor up and use a opti ecm.
thats the name i couldn't remember "fuel data center".
ULTM8Z, "Are you certain? I didn't see two O2 sensor signal wires on the schematic...."
i probably have them mixed up
i have worked on 7 or 8 caddys this week, normally i only see about 2 a month, seemed like this was caddy week for me.
if you have something that covers a 93 caddy deville with a california calibration, see if it has 2 o2 sensors if you don't mind, my books at home only go 92 & doesn't cover any california cals.
other wise for those who want bank to bank fuel control,.. looks like you'll need a 94 ECM.
it looks like the fuel data center & climate control won't work, my wiring diagrams show both run to the BCM, unless someone really wants to wire one up.
Originally posted by RBob moates.net stock binary's: 2240AYFP.BIN
Here's the specs on that BCC code: Scan tool ID: 4786 PROM Part number: 16164808 ECM #: 16132240 Calibration Date: 03/01/91 Released Status: Superseded Body Codes: CB Emissions:
NA5 Federal
W/O NC7 Emission systems, federal override
W/O NM8 Emission systems, Leaded fuel
4.9L motor Specials:
W/O K20 Module, Electronic control
W/O R1P Coachbuilder, Heavy Duty Option
Quote:
Originally posted by ULTM8Z The broadcast code on the PROM is BWYP btw.
The PROM must have been replaced; this prom release date is 96! Good find. Here's the specs on that BCC code: Scan tool ID: 2756 PROM Part number: 16242471 ECM #: 16132240 Calibration Date: 08/07/96 Released Status: Latest Body Codes: CB Emissions:
NB2 California emission requirements
4.9L motor axle ratios:
FP3 transaxle, 2.73
90-93 Deville: used one O2 sensor on the rear bank of cylinders 9?-93 Seville: used two O2 sensors 9?-93 Allante: used two O2 sensors 94-95 Deville: (NOT northstar) used two O2 sensor, California emission models got two heated O2 sensor
The caddy stuff is interesting, but I still think you're best bet of sequential injection is to use the OBDI LT1 stuff -- '8051 ecm and associated hardware. It uses the standard IAC circuit. The Optispark stuff is easy to get, because the bearings go bad, or the optics get funky due to moisture(ebay?). Gut the opti, put it in the small body distributor, and run with a system that is factory calibrated to run a short runner SBC. Plus the ECM is hardened, the scanner and tuning software is easy to get and well documented.
its definitely a quicker way to go. TC already has a definition ($EE)
Originally posted by jwscab The caddy stuff is interesting, but I still think you're best bet of sequential injection is to use the OBDI LT1 stuff -- '8051 ecm and associated hardware. It uses the standard IAC circuit. The Optispark stuff is easy to get, because the bearings go bad, or the optics get funky due to moisture(ebay?). Gut the opti, put it in the small body distributor, and run with a system that is factory calibrated to run a short runner SBC. Plus the ECM is hardened, the scanner and tuning software is easy to get and well documented.
its definitely a quicker way to go. TC already has a definition ($EE)
I would agree 100% if it weren't for the fact that the Caddy ecm is an in the cabin design (where ours is) making the repinning easy and adding wires are easy enough. Then there's the whole memcal thing that makes life easier. Flash pcm's are a RPITA to work with. You can't do real-time programming (in stock form ), and you can't run multiple programs with a switcher.
I think the Caddy stuff is by far the best hardware except for it's IAC stumbling block. May figuring a mechanical means of mounting the Caddy IAC motor to the TPI...
I wish this would take off but I have a feeling it won't finish without some serious dedication to breaking the code down into source. It hasn't been done for the $8D yet...
The Opti PCM is good but it has it's drawbacks too like JPrevost said. If all else fails the ISC motor from the caddy can be rigged up to push the throttle linkage on TPI though this is not optimal. Who know the code may have a switch in it to run a stepper motor IAC. More work and research still needs to be done on this PCM.
Originally posted by 89 Iroc Z The Opti PCM is good but it has it's drawbacks too like JPrevost said. If all else fails the ISC motor from the caddy can be rigged up to push the throttle linkage on TPI though this is not optimal. Who know the code may have a switch in it to run a stepper motor IAC. More work and research still needs to be done on this PCM.
The PCM doesn't have an IAC motor driver so it's not code limited, it's hardware limited.
), and you can't run multiple programs with a switcher.
