RBob

iTrader: (1)

Does the fuel pump run and build pressure at key-on?

The cranking AFR table is where to add fuel. Can also increase the priming cranking fuel.

RBob.

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

My passenger side injector is not getting power and not firing of course ... Checked it with a mood light while running and nothing ... Thanks for any help ! ASAP please

Edit: I have the injector issue resolved ... But now my fpr aeromotive 13301 is bad I think ? ... My FP gauge is pegged at 30psi no matter what I do and the vacuum line does nothing .. But when I turn the engine off key on it reads 5psi then slowly creeps to 0 or .9 on ebl wud ... Wt flip is goin on here ... There's no fuel on the wrong side of the diaphragm idk what else to do

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

Return line?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Autometer fuel pressure sender? If so it likely went bad.

RBob.

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

Yes auto meter 0-30 ... But when I turn key off it does what it usually does.

Edit : is there a better transducer to replace it with ?

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

What could b wrong with return line ?

1991z28ragtop

What should my fuel pressure be?? I have a 383 tuned port with a pro charger, Accell 24 lb injectors. Can someone suggest a good fuel pressure gauge.

bphage

ACCEL DFI 74726 Fuel Pressure Gauge Kit - I recently misplaced it and I am desperately looking for it as it is now $60 on amazon!

Stock fuel pressure as I recall is 43.5 psi with FPR open to air (no vacuum applied)

If you have a FMU with the procharger you probably don't need to do anything else then set the fuel pressure to factory. If you don't have the FMU you may need to bump up the fuel pressure to maintain enough flow at WOT etc... but maybe someone else can better speak to this.

bphage

I started to do what you suggested but without anyone else around I just wasn't comfortable enough to give it a go... all I could see was setting my IROC on fire... then the house... lol.. probably paranoid but without anyone else around I'll give it another go at finding the darn pressure gauge that is more idiot proof

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

What is a good FP transducer to replace the auto meter crap

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I know holley makes one, not sure the quality on it, but most people have few issues with anything Holley.

http://performanceparts.com/part/Holley/554-102

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

I believe just gonna stick a mechanical gauge on the regulator for now as that's half the price of a transducer ... Idk what is wrong with the thing now ... It just started sputtering one day out of nowhere and found that one of my Cfm tech injectors wasn't firing all the while the transducer quit working at the same time

Cflick

How foolish would you feel if the house did burn down ?
If you're not comfortable, there's probably a reason.
I merely offer that it is "a" way, not that it's necessarily best in all cases.

RFmaster

FWIW, I've playing with Ebay sourced fuel, oil pressure transducers. I generally cringe at an idea of using ChiCom made parts but in this case I had (your experience might be different) decent results using parts from this Ebay peddler for about 1/4 of Autometer price: better-purchase-better-life

http://stores.ebay.com/Ahead-Instrum...=p4634.c0.m322

They offer transducers and pig tails for 5 volt rail in the following ranges: 0-5psi; 15psi; 30psi; 60psi; 80psi; 100psi; 150psi; 200psi; 300psi; 500psi; 1000psi; 1600psi.

Warning:

Make sure to check and use their pinout - it is different from Autometer!!

//RF

bphage

lol... yah I just didn't have the courage to do it, though I am sure it would be fine. I have spent hours reading through these forums and you start to get to know people who know what they are talking about and others that don't... and your post along with a few other people really have helped me to build my car and I am sooooo darn close to finishing it (tune for smog, turbo install and tune, cage, and paint is all that is left at this point). Anyhow, funny thing is the darn missing fuel pressure gauge has really has kept me up at nights...then... yesterday I was half a sleep and I swear I saw myself putting it in a box; I just got up and realize my kids had moved some of the stuff around and it fell out of that box and into the one bellow! hurrah for half sleeping clarity...I'll be testing my fuel pressure today! I also managed to wire up the three wire O2 that arrived Sat morning.

bphage

Just thought I would post that my fuel pressure is 43psi with vacuum off and 33psi with it at idle.. hence the calculation suggesting I was at 30psi... that's good that the calculation was so close makes me think things are setup right.

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

Please help ASAP ! I cannot figure out what is wrong with the bird ... I wasn't getting any fuel or spark so I replaced icm I have 12v at injectors no codes thrown , fuel pump primes but then won't run while cranking ... And the spw on ebl wud is maxed out key on engine off ? Wtf ?

Also all sensors on diagnostics screen look good

RFmaster

Sleeper
Suggest that you check your distributor reluctor coil and magnets around the bird cage. If reluctor coil is open you will not get spark and ICM will not send DRP to ECM.
Also make sure that you have +12 volts at the coil during cranking and that the two wire harness between coil and ICM doe not have a broken pin.

//RF

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

There is 12v at coil key on engine off ... But y is the PW on ebl maxed out at key on ? And y won't fuel pump run while cranking ... Ebl shows 0 v at FP while cranking after priming

bphage

Whats the fuel pressure?

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

Zero. When it primes FP goes up then try to crank and goes to 0

bphage

This worries me for bad fuel pump... some times FP relay and oil pressure switch have been reported to cause similar problems though. You can also test for power going to the fuel pump at the connector by the rear seats as if your getting power there I would bet your getting power to the fuel pump unless its broken which you will figure out anyhow. Obviously if there is now power back there then you got to go check out the wiring for the fuel pump relay, fuse, oil pressure switch etc etc.

I am sure you have checked all these things but will list any how:

- enough gas - don't assume gas gauge is working (ask how I know that) add a gallon or so.
- Check to be sure you don't have a plugged in-line filter or leaks in the rubber couplings. You can also have a plugged pump inlet filter or restricted fuel line... thats less easy to just look at and tell if its a problem.

now that the real obvious is out of the way try jumping the fuel pump test connector.
1. Ign Off
2. Disconnect injector
3. block fuel return line - just pinch the flexible hose
4. jumper the fuel pump test connector to 12 volts and record the fuel pressure (as I recall its a red wire near the FP relay just hanging out there... if you cant find it you can also jumper at the relay connecting the orange and tan wire - it may be brown not tan)

whats the PSI? less than 9 and we are looking at the fuel pump itself, blockages in the fuel coupling hose/pump filter, leak in the line. Leak in line should have obviously been ruled out above.

If the psi is above 13 then we are looking for restrictions after the pump so you will need to check the fuel pressure again when pumping fuel into a gas can... I can give you the complete procedure if you need.

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

TPI pump installed a year ago with aeromotive regulator and braided stainless fuel lines

And I run 30psi through 68# injectors

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

I don't c anything wrong with relict or besides rust ... Magnets all feel strong .. Should I just buy a new dizzy ?

RFmaster

Verify reluctor coil with DMV - if it's open (high resistance) ICM will not get pulses as rotor shaft is rotating. Visual inspection is useless when it comes to reluctor coil.

The fact that you are getting 0 pressure during cranking indicates that ECM is not receiving DRP pulses from ICM. Get your DVM make sure that you have +12 volts at ignition coil while cranking and the two wire harness between coil and ICM does not have an open.

During power one self test (POST) ECM actuates FP relay for ~2 sec without receiving DRP pulses from ICM. However, ECM will not power-up FP relay without receiving DRP pulses from ICM during cranking (and will not pulse injectors). Make sure that you have spark during cranking to narrow things down. After prolonged cranking oil pressure switch will close and power up FP. This is not an EBL issue!

Rust inside dizzy may indicate past moisture accumulation which can possibly contribute to electrical failure. Simple checks should provide a clue.

//RF

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Getting good advice here on troubleshooting. Need the distributor sending pulses to the ECM to fire the injectors and turn the fuel pump back on. The 2-wire pigtail that RF is referring to is troublesome.

The wires like to break internally where they exit the coil side connector. The insulation continues to make the wire look OK, but it isn't.

To cover the injector PW being high, this is normal during cranking. Need a lot of fuel on a cold engine to fire it off first thing in the morning. Kinda' like that first cup of coffee in the morning.

RBob.

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

The PW ain't just high it's maxed out with key on engine off while NOT trying to crank it

RFmaster

You're chasing a non-problem!
Start up SPW with a cold engine (CTS <20C) runs about ~ 20mSec. Display scale on WhatsUp is 15mSec. So that's a reason why it is maxed out. Here is a snap shot from my start-up screen below.

As engine cranks and vacuum develops PW will drop - as in second capture (engine RPM =134 startup cranking)


//RF

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Like this...

RBob.

Cflick

You can unplug the dis, and connect an AC voltmeter to the coil pins. Should see a volt or two AC while cranking. I forget exactly what V, but you should see something. If there's a wire breakage, you'll see nothing. Best, check it at the ECM connector. That's an AC voltmeter. Digital's are not good for this at all. Use an analog, $15 Radio Scrap will work as well as a $600 Simpson 260.
Of course, What'sUp will show RPM as soon as pulses start arriving, if they arrive at the ECM at all.

You can see in RF's second capture, his engine cranks at about 150 RPM.

CORV3TT3

So, I am using the TT-01 WB for tuning and the value for the NB is routinely .7 lower than the WB when it comes measuring fuel/air. NB will show 13.8 and WB will show 14.5/6. I am using channel b to simulate the NB. Is there something I should offset or adjust? Just curious if that is normal.

Wasn't able to get it warm enough to go open loop... so this was before I could get it warm enough for VE learns.

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

Do you mean warm enought to go CL? Are you saying WB shows no read out? Or wont wake up? Mine shows A/F after 30 secs then reads A/F at coolant temps under 130F?

Not sure if the NB voltage can give accurate reads unless WOT and even then it is so so. I am of belief it only sends v to ecu under over stoich .450v.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

If you have a stock NB O2 sensor, it should be used for the ECM's closed loop input.

The graph of the O2 voltage & AFR is not what you think it is. It shows the NB O2 signal in millivolts, and the WB O2 signal as AFR. They usually cross at 450 MV and 14.7:1.

RBob.

CORV3TT3

Ahhhh... Ok.

Thanks for the clarification.

Yeah, I was referencing the WUD where the NB sits above the values for the WB. I was thinking they would look similar or something.

CORV3TT3

Meant to say "get out of open loop". I always confuse the terms open & closed loop for some reason. I know which actions are which... just get them backwards in saying them.

One challenge I have is that my OE O2 bung sits inches ahead of my converter and two inches behind my Y pipe. So for now I am running the WB on channel A and the NB via channel B through the TT-01.

CORV3TT3

Ok... need some thoughts here.


Ran great today- until just a little while ago.

Here is what it is doing- once it enters closed loop, it is running the BLMs down to 110 and dying. Perceived lean condition?

FWIW- I tried a BIN set for open loop prior to my VE learns and it runs okay- so I think it is related to the 02 sensor somehow. It was a new sensor, mounted just in front of the converter and that's by the transmission. Lasted maybe three hours today.

EDIT: Just before it started act up, it did start to go really high on adding fuel. Got a message that VE was exceeded at 1600 rpm. That seemed odd considering I am running 90lb injectors and 15 psi on the regulator. FWIW- I just completed a slew of VE learns with the NB not but two days ago in the same RPM range and they were a lot less than what the WB gave me today for that same RPM area.

Anyways, I stopped the VE learn and shut it down to fill up. Flashed that session over to the EBL, turned the key off, waited and restarted it. Started another VE learn session and this time it started to pull fuel out- like more than 10 percent at idle. I didn't think too much of it other than it seemed odd but the SES wasn't on so I figured it was a glitch or something and headed down the road. Then it started to run lean and die out on me. Did that until I flashed a BIN over to run OL.

I checked the grounds and the power to it from the ignition. Everything seems to check out.

I ran the car maybe 60 miles or so and started it only 3 times since getting the sensor in. Also, I did not leave the WB powered up for more than two minutes or so at a time without the engine running.

Thoughts?

Attached is a datalog at an idle from OL to CL where you can see the BLM drop like a rock.

CORV3TT3

I spoke with RBob. I went back to a previous BIN, tested the components like he and I talked about, changed some settings on the TT-1, and everything is working just fine now.

Everyday I learn something new...

Thanks RBob!

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

We'll I got the car running again moved my FP gauge from tbi to the regulator and removed the 1.5" plastic POS carb to tbi adapter for a 1/4" metal adapter ... Oh and one of my CFM tech injectors took a dive so I swapped them for some GM 61# ers ... Now it was running rich as hell !!! Still ain't right but got it running "OK" ... My problem is my TT-1 WB won read anything but 14.6-14.7 no matter what I do with fueling it just stays there wtf ? I don't understand is the sensor bad ? Controller ? Idk fml

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Yes, sensor went bad, gauge is defaulting to constant stoich...

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

**** ... Where can I get replacement n how much $ ? Need ASAP !!!

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Bosch widebands are essentially all the same, only differences are the connectors for the model years, or manufacturer. My Autometer Pro-Comp uses a Bosch, but the connector stops me from connecting into the others. Can buy one from Autozone for like fifty dollars for a BMW, just cut the existing connector that is used from the TT-1 wideband and solder it to the new sensor after cutting off the connector that comes with the replacement sensor, or if the connector comes apart, take it apart and pull the terminals out and plug the new terminals in. The wire colors should match up. Be sure to take the bad sensor with you though to the parts store to compare before buying...

RBob

iTrader: (1)

TT-1 uses the Bosch 17014 sensor. If the engine is running rich, wait until it is leaned out some before installing the new sensor. Can use the NB O2 and do BLM based VE Learns.

RBob.

CORV3TT3

1991sleeper- FWIW... Bosch 17014 can be found at Advance Auto and Amazon for between $49 and $55 or so.

NAPA has them for around $100.



That part number won't pull up on Autozone and O'Reilly's web pages unless you know what vehicle that was OEM for. But I would imagine you could get them to price match if you found one.

I'd say buy a spare from Amazon... if you have Prime, you can get 2 day shipping for around $3.

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

Thanks ... I believe CFM tech sent me the wrong injectors so this whole time I've been thinking they were bigger than they really are cause when I swapped in the GM 61#ers it ran so rich it was barely running had to reduce my VE table like 25% !!!! Just to get it to run halfway decent .. So here I am starting all over with my tune right at the end of racing season fml

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

I'm having some trouble with my NB afr swinging way too much .. Like I can feel it while going down the road at steady cruise ... I've tried reducing prp gain tables like 5 times .. And I reduced all 4 of them every time .. Am I only supposed to b reducing 2 of them ? I don't remember

Another thing is say I'm cruising down the road at 50 mph and pop it outa gear and hit brakes to slow down .. Sometimes it will surge and die .. If I downshift to keep the rpm up durin decel it won't die .. Kinda annoying lol

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

I posted that Q a while ago. Search my thread and see Rbobs comments. Initially I changed allPG's and should have done maybe 2 of 4. I cant recall. Regardless my A/f on WB on swings about .3 max when CL and not in hyway mode so it seems OK. Same on OL idle but I understand no PG there.

mike327

Hey guys, need a little help with my tt-1. I thought the ecm would stay in open loop as long as you are doing a ve learn with the wide band. The WB stays on 10 on the WUD and I get a message at the bottom of the WUD that says " BLM @ 128 force open loop" or something like that. How do you force open loop?

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

Set open loop threshold tempature all the way up and lock blms at 128

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

Setting coolant temp to max is adequate.

Locking BLM at 128 is setting the window parameter to 128-128 otherwise the parameter is like 118-138. Locking BLM allows one to use INT for VE correction for a finer resolution. I dont believe this should be done with EBL-Learn.

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

I couldn't find ur thread on prp gains could someone elaborated on what should be done for swinging afr/int which makes my idle / cruise speeds surge . Thanks