ttypecamaro

iTrader: (2)

I disagree (unless my Chilton's Manual is completely wrong). I was double checking your repin list with my chilton's manual and it seems you are missing the distributor rewiring:
D9-->B3
D8-->B5 (this is probably what you meant by: D8-->B5)
C8-->D4 (this is probably what you meant by: B4-->D4)
C7-->D5

The IAC wiring (C5 and C6) shouldn't matter either way.
I probably wont bother switching the injector banks (D15<-->D16) or splicing in the extraneous C15 and D14 wires.

what are these doing?
D2-->C1
D8-->C15
D13-->D2

I'm not trying to be a jerk, I was just getting ready to repin my harness and wanted to double check for typos to avoid costly mistakes.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

You have mail. I've seen chilton's get many things wrong before.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

This will be the last bin I'm releasing since my hybrid build is almoast complete. This is similar to what I've been using in my own car for a while and shares very little with the previous bins. Same location as before, name is '2.8 v6 \165ecm (L)'.

Knock sensor needed, compatible with stock o2 sensor but should run close to 14.5/1 afr in closed loop. I've programmed a few little 'tricks' into it that should make that transition when you stomp the gas a little more fun. Enjoy.

enswrob

looking in to swaping to 165 ecm.. i think i like it already..

coolrimsatleast

Still working on it. Having trouble finding an ECM. Found a better list of cars to go by, so I'll hit up Pick-a-Part again this week.

Need to find another laptop too. Mine died a few months ago, there are no decent cheap used laptops I can find locally, and I'm being cheap and keep talking myself out of buying a new one for $400.

Here's what I'll be looking for on my next trip. Hopefully I can find at least one of these that hasn't already had it's ecm stripped out.

1987-90 Astro/Safari Van with 2.5L 4 cylinder
1987-88 Blazer S10/Jimmy S15 with 2.5L 4 cylinder
1991 BlazerS10/Jimmy S15 with 4.3L 6 cylinder (with 1227165 ECM)
1991 Bravada (with 1227165 ECM)
1987 Camaro/Firebird with 5.7L 8 cylinder
1988 Camaro/Firebird with 5.0L 8 cylinder with MFI
1988 Camaro/Firebird with 5.7L 8 cylinder
1986-87 Camaro/Firebird with 5.0L 8 cylinder with EFI
1989 Camaro/Firebird with 5.0L 8 cylinder with MFI
1986 Cavalier/Cimarron with 2.0L 4 cylinder and manual trans
1989 Camaro/Firebird with 5.7L 8 cylinder
1986 Firenza/Skyhawk/Sunbird with 2.0L 4 cylinder and manual trans
1986-89 Corvette
1987-91 S10/S15/Sonoma with 2.5L 4 cylinder
1991 S10/S15/Sonoma with 4.3L 6 cylinder (with 1227165 ECM)

(on a good note, I think I fixed it's random shutdown problem. I guess it was the coil)

*edit* Nevermind. It ran fine a few weeks ago, but tonight I decided to air it out and drive into town, but it died half a mile down the road. Wouldn't start at all. Had my dad tow me home.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

There's the list I was looking for, where'd you find that? Concentrate on 4-cyl blazers/s10's and 2.5L vans, they're most common. Never found one in a 4.3 blazer either.

coolrimsatleast

I can't remember now just what I typed into google (or maybe it was dogpile), but I think the list was actually here on thirdgen somewhere. I updated my printed list with engine vin codes too, as I was coming across vehicles with no engines, and didn't want to waste time pulling ecms at random.

I thought I was close today when I found a 91 blazer with the 4.3. I pulled the ECM down out of the dash (drumroll and suspense building), and it wasn't the right one.

There's one on ebay for about $50+$10shipping. I might bid on it in the next few days if my search comes up empty again tomorrow. ($30 at the junkyard)

Drove the firebird back through the woods a few days ago after changing the control module, and ran up and down the road today with no problems. I have a faint glimmer of hope that the icm was indeed the problem.

Now I just need to pull the valve covers (the rattle), get a different exhaust (headers with 2.5 highflow cat, 2.5 I-pipe, and 2.5 dynomax muffler are just too loud and raspy), and have the entire interior cleaned. It smells musty after sitting most of the winter.

I need to find someone around my area that has experience doing this type of tuning also, because I've never done this before. I should buy what I need and try it on my truck a little bit (96 chevy). It needs some extra gas mileage too.

enswrob

got a 165 ecm.. gotta wait to get the car back to pull the memcal and get the bin off it and get the prom off of it

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Another oversight on my part I need to clear up on the repin. When splicing the injector wires together make sure you splice wires C15 to D16 and D14 to D15 on the v6 harness, or simply disconnect C15 and D14 outright. I chose to splice them together for a little redundancy, but disconnecting them isn't a problem. You should end up with a blue and green wire spliced together on each of the injector pins.

coolrimsatleast

Finally got a 165 ecm off ebay. Now I can't find a 'willems burner'. I see some other burners though. What all do I need to look for to get the right one?

Knock sensor may have to be attached somewhere other than the block. I checked the rockers and couldn't find anything wrong, so I'll be living with that rattle from here on out I guess. (still keeping an eye out for something to build big rollers that I can set the the tires on, run it in drive, and listen to the engine.)

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

You should be able to find a willems burner just by doing a search on ebay. Try google if you don't find it there. Their basic burner is pretty much compatible with any chip you could program and cheap, but moates.net has one that's more expensive and limited, but it will do the job too. Just make sure the burner you use is compatible with the chip you're using.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

MCUMall.com sells Willems programmers. I bought my USB (GQ-3X) programmer from them. I also have a Willems Dual Power that I bought long ago from someone on another site, and after using the two I'd DEFINATLY go with the USB programmer MUCH easier to use.

The Moates BURN2 is supposed to be easy for novices just getting into tuning. It's also very compact, USB connection, and simple software, that takes some of the guess work out of programming.

coolrimsatleast

I guess I'll order one of those SST 27sf512's and the USB GQ3X or maybe the Burn2 from moates.

I can see myself pulling this eprom in and out a few times until I get the tune right.

Once I get the eprom tuned and installed in the memcal then I'll start on the ecm repinning and knock sensor install.

I should get the ford injectors too, but I'll have to do some reading on those. I think everyone was putting those in the 2.8 or 3.1, and I have a 3.4.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

One more thing I forgot to mention is B6 needs to be on B12, otherwise the ecm won't read the maf.

Edit- updated repin chart. Don't worry about it.

coolrimsatleast

Is it possible to plug a laptop into the obd port and mess with the tuning once I get this installed, or will I have to pull the chip out everytime and plug it into the burner?

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

You need an emulator to do that.

EDIT: PM me if you need a '165, I get cheap used parts through my shop

coolrimsatleast

I found one on ebay already, hopefully it works. I'll have to get with ya if mine doesn't work though.

The car hasn't been running all that great lately. I'd like to figure that out before I get to the tuning stuff. Stumbles alot at low rpms when I give it gas. Heck I'm still fixing the damage the elk did too.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Just wanted to say thanks for the bin uploads

coolrimsatleast

Got the chip and burner a week ago. Went with the Moates burn 2. Had to follow the 'read me' stuff and got the software and computer to recognize the burner, but that's as far as I got.

I've got about 3 days left of a military school I'm goint to, and don't really have internet for now.

I guess I need the base bin, and some other file from what I read.

Anybody have any input on what I'll need to change since I have a 3.4 instead of a 3.1? I downloaded the 'L' bin.

*Okay, I guess it's the '32B (v6) XDF'. Where do I find that?

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

In binary editor definitions / tunerpro xdf files in the custom folder. Probably won't need to change much other than the injector size and maybe add a little more accel enrichment.

coolrimsatleast

Found it. Figured out how to bring it up in Tunerpro. Tried to open the bin too but nothing came up. I could select it, but it didn't actually open. I'll do some more messing with it tomorrow.

coolrimsatleast

Okay I kinda suck at this.

when i open the bin files, nothing happens, and when I open the xdf files I get the 3 windows on the left (constants/scalars, flags/switches, tables/functions), and then there's the 'item summary list on the right half.

Is one of these the 'bin'?

I changed the injector rates from 15.02(single) to 17.02, and 14.99(double) to 16.99. I then 'saved bin as' with a new letter designator, closed everything, reloaded the new bin, went to 'view', opened the item lists and everything came up with the changes intact. (so maybe that is the bin) Good so far?

I see half a dozen different accel enrich items, so I don't know what to change there. If anyone can tell me which one and an estimate as to how much that would ge great.

(correct me if I'm wrong, the bin is the list of tables, and the xdf file is the info that goes into it?)

I'm going to go through the help stuff some more to see if I'm writing to the chip correctly before I come back with a dozen questions about that.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

You're on the right track. Just keep at it, learning to tune is 80% experimentation, 20% research. You really have no clue what does what until you get in there and start messing with things. The xdf is the file your home computer uses to 'define' what the bin means and what's located where. The mask ($6E, $32b, $1F ect.) is the particular program file your ecm is using to run your car and the bin is the calibration of that program. If you feel the accel enrich tables do need to be tweaked here's a guide to what does what.

coolrimsatleast

I guess I'll start on the re-pinning this weekend, and hopefully get the ecm put together and installed. Gotta hit up the junkyards too and get that knock sensor and 70mm thunderbird maf.

Still need the cable too for plugging my laptop into the diagnostic port.

Something else occured to me today.... I've got a home-made intake with a k&n filter and all that and headers with a 2.5 inch system.

Are the files I downloaded already more or less set up for that, or should I change some more stuff.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

What your car might need will be different from what another will. Unil you learn to tune for your needs you won't really be happy. And even then you're really never satisfied. There's always little things that catch your attention you can tweak.

Hold off on the ford maf for a while, I'm going to post up switching to $6E with the ford maf pretty soon. I have my car running well with it, and there should be some mileage gains to be made with it as well. Decel cutoff is more aggressive and better implemented in $6E, as well as the gains from lean cruise.

coolrimsatleast

another thought occured to me. Is this all setup for 87 octane or 89? I've noticed a lot of people on fullsizechevy.com (where I go for my truck) that get their ecm's tuned for mid-grade.

coolrimsatleast

Anyone know where to order the memcal itself? The exacto knife didn't work, and de-soldering ended up melting some of the plastic, so now I don't know if I can even get the new chip back in.

*nevermind. i managed to get the other two small chips off without destroying everything again, and if I file down the tab things on the sides, I can just reverse all the chips and put the memcal in backwards. Kinda sanford and sonnish, but oh well.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

You're going to need a new memcal, you shouldn't desolder the 2 smaller chips- just the eeprom and knock module. You need a -very- fine tipped soldering iron, like the dia. of a paperclip to desolder it without overheating the chip or burning things. That's why I reccomend inserting an exacto knife between the chip prongs and the memcal contact. You just press straight down between them to break the solder away, don't try to dig it out. It's very easy to overheat the chip or memcal and render it useless. The memcal's designed to only be inserted one way. I've tuned my car on 85 octane (87 equivalent at lower altitude).

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

The Moates memcal adapter is awesome It allows you to use the stock memcal piggy-backed on a circuit board and bypasses the stock prom. It fits in the '165 case, just have to take the big cover off to do so.

Ebay has a ton of memcals, or go to the junk yard and get one out of another v6 vehicle if you want the proper knock sensor.

coolrimsatleast

I guess you mean this? I had to look at it a second to figure out how it plugs into everything. Yep, I think I'll get that. I still need to order the aldu1 extreme aldl converter and cable and whatever too.
http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...products_id=32


The knock module de-soldered easy enough. The actual chip is where everything went wrong. I managed to get the two small chips out with the exacto knife, but it wasn't pretty either. They used some pretty stout solder when they made my particular memcal.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

You don't need to remove anythng from the MEMCAL when using the G1 adaptor from Moates.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

That's a great little adapter for anyone who's not adept at soldering or not comfortable with removing the eprom. I'm a cheap a$$ though.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

Sometimes time IS money

Just like I have a CNC machine shop and could make my turbo flanges (did for the last kit) with crap steel in the shop, but when I can buy them on ebay for $20, is it really worth me spending a couple hours making them when our shop minimum is $45/hr?

oxrabidus

this may be a dumb question.. but there are two connectors on the ecm, which one do you repin? or do you do them both the same way?
i am doing this swap along with a 3.4l, but im confused when it comes to that...
thank you

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

There's 2 connectors, the A-B connector and the C-D connector. They should either be labled on the face of the connector or on the ecm recepticle.

oxrabidus

i thought the a, b, c, and d were the rows and the number was the coloumn...
how could you tell which one is d12 and such? im sorry but ive never dealt with anything like this so im confused and wangt to make sure im doing it right...
or
could i just get a harness from a 90-92 3.1l? or is that not the 165 ecm?
thank you

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

The small connector is the A-B connector; A top, B bottom row and the large connector is the C-D connector; C top, D bottom. They're labled on the ecm. The 3.1 harness is for the '730 ecm which has different connectors. You need to repin (switch the wire positions) on the original connectors.

oxrabidus

ok so its the top and bottom rows only, the two middle rows i dont have to touch?
sorry for all the questions again...
thank you!

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

There's only 2 rows where the pins connect to the ecm. The outermost holes are 'acess holes' that allow you to remove the pins. This is explained at the beginning of the thread. You insert the repin tool into the outer hole at a slight angle and pull the corresponding pin out from the back. The pin needs to go back in the correct orientation to connect correctly. Look at the connector and you'll see what I mean.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Took a bit longer than I would have liked, but I've got $6E straightened out for the most part. Runs great warm, but may start out a bit rich before it has a chance to adjust. I tried my hand at running the blm cells off load instead of airflow to provide better fueling during mild acceleration, which in my oppinion has never been very good. Highway enleanment and spark are enabled and tweaked to deliver the best mileage without being overly noticeable. Decel cutoff is much more aggressive than with $32B and triggers often when the brake is pressed. I'm not sure if this is part of the code or coincidental but works great. If you're coasting downhill and tap the brake at the right time you can stay in cutoff for the whole decent. The TCC will stay locked with more throttle input than the previous bins to help tame on-off drivers (like me) into better mileage, but will unlock when you need it. Repinning is exactly the same as with $32B, but you will need to wire in an analog 70mm T-bird MAF (see repin below) and a knock sensor. Also disconnect the cold start injector if equipped. Be sure to grab a harness connector for the T-bird MAF. PM me for the bin.

Edit- see post #141 for repin & post #174 for bin.

coolrimsatleast

splicing question.

After printing out the repin/splice list, I noticed on your original list you have C15 spliced to D15, and D14 spliced to D16, yet your update recently mentioned splicing C15 to D16, and D14 to D15 or disconnecting C15 and D14.

I'm guessing the original splices should be ignored (except for D10 to A12)?

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Yes, splice C15 and D16 together on the the harness and plug that into D15 on the connector; then splice D14 and D15 together on the harness and plug that into D16 on the connector. I hope that clarifies it.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

...

coolrimsatleast

That does clarifiy it. Thanks.

coolrimsatleast

It almost clarified it. ALDL pin E to pin M. I figured it's the connector that runs into the harness just before the ECM, but do I need to switch E and M, or just disconnect M and put the E wire in it's place?

You showed D15 and D16 being swapped, but only show E repinned to M, and there's already a wire in M.

I'll have to run to an electrical store tomorrow and hopefully find some of those connectors. I mangled the tabs on a few of them when my pin remover wouldn't work for some reason.

I'm also getting an oil filter relocator kit tomorrow. The knock sensor barely clears the starter wires, so I went ahead and bought a new sensor (i'm leaving the junkyard sensor in the block by the starter) and I'll put the new one in on the drivers side of the engine. It'll make it easier to run the wire through the firewall too. There's no way through on the passenger side.

I'm tired of the oil filter being there anyway. It's too close to the headers.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Pin E to M, and M to E on the ALDL connector, otherwise you won't be able to datalog.

oxrabidus

is it possible to just use a v8 tpi wiring harness that was used with a 165 ecm and plug in the injector harness to it? or would that not function?

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Why would you go through the expense & trouble of swapping harnesses when a repin is so much easier (and free)?

oxrabidus

so that means it would work? i was just wondering because im swaping in a 3.4l and the motor is out... and id rather spend 50 bucks on a good used harmess than try and end up messing up the one i have and end up buying stuff to fix it... so it wont me too expensive... plus it would be the same as putting in a new motor... because you gotta plug everything in anyways...