bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Basically it converts the signals and adds them together. You need to modify the injector constant and a few other things (it's detailed in the xdf) to use it. Even though there's just a handfull of constants that need to be changed the reorganizing I'd have to do to get them to change with the option bit is considerable and ultimately the user would have to modify the conversion factors anyhoo, so I decided it would be better for the end user to do it.

ttypecamaro

iTrader: (2)

But does it still run into the 255g/s limit?

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

No, the 255 bit limit is only a function of the ecm's 8 bit calculating. Each bit holds a 2 g/sec value in this way so a pair of 255 g/sec mafs will measure 510 g/sec. You can use even larger mafs if you choose by rescaling the injector constants & other things appropriately. If you used a pair of 510 g/sec mafs you could measure 1020 g/sec! More airflow than you'd ever need.

It's basically the same thing turbo buick owners have been doing for years but using 2 mafs. Resolution doesn't suffer much because it uses multiple maf tables and ecm is fairly good at interpolating. Now if you add big injectors (like 50 lb/hr) and a big cam things get hairy. Luckily you can also run it in single fire and now have the option to command open loop below whatever rpm you want to get back low speed driveablility.

16 bit maf calculations will be coming in Power Adder 6E v2.0 for even better resolution and tuneability!

The_Punisher454

Awesome, I love all the modded code that coming out on this forum

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Ugh, hold on. Apparently there's something different between what I'm using in my car and what I released. IAT, run time and wb02 input aren't showing up correctly in the datastream.

RS Reaper

Ok, quick question. I though it be better to put it here due to the title of the thread then to make another thread that will get buried.

OK, So most of you are pre-90 camaros and you are using the 1227165. Now if I understand this correct, that is a 1986-1989 Camaros, firebirds, and corvettes ECM which is used on MAF style setups. Correct? I believe that is what you guy have on your V6. Now my V6 is a 90 that was the year they started using MAP. So that makes me believe I should use a 1990-1992 Camaros and Firebirds 1227730 ECM which is used on MAP style setups. Right? Not trying to sound stupid but I want to make sure this is correct before throwing money out. Also Does anyone know if the re-pin guide will work the same?

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

You already have a 1227730 ecm. Tons of support just check out the stickies.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Ok, fixed run time and wb02 input, still messing with IAT. Updated files uploaded to the same place as before.

coolrimsatleast

Hey all, I'm still here. Found another 165 ecm in an 86 TPI Sunday. I'm going to double check my ECM plug adapter, chip programming, etc, and try this again Friday hopefully. Will be busy Sat and Sun, so next chance won't be until following weekend.

Mileage down a little right now, probably some mystery problem I haven't found yet, combined with alcohol tainted and oxygenated winter blend puke.

If ECM has same problems again, I'll try finding someone who is willing to try it in their car to see if it's my car wiring/pinout job or the ECM/memcal/chip if I can't figure it out.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Dude, if you weren't in washington I'd drive over there so I could see what's going on with your swap. Trying to help you through the internet is tedious and I want this to work for you.

ttypecamaro

iTrader: (2)

-3.4/3400 hybrid
-1227165 ecm
-$6E (unmodified code, calibration changes only)
-1992 3.1L memcal and knock sensor
Can the knock sensor wire be connected directly to pin B7, bypassing the external knock module?

page 1 of this thread instructs to wire the Knock sensor -> B11 for the memcal mounted esc board, but I don't know if that requires modified code.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

If you're using the knock board it needs to be wired to B11. No code changes needed.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Edit- the kits are on the backburner for now. Too much else to do ATM.

I'm now selling retrofit DIS ignition kits for the 2.8/3.1. Customized kits are also available for any other engine combo or hardware needs. With the full kit you will recieve either a sheetmetal reluctor (minimizes pulley offset) that bolts between the crank pulley & harmonic balancer or '85 models will recieve a replacement crank pulley with the notches cut into the pulley, sensor & bracket that bolts inplace of the timing tab, coil pack & ignition wires (napa cheapies, 8mm available on special request), oil pump drive, a 1227165 ecm preprogrammed with 32B for use with the stock MAF, the NTRPMX bin or Power Adder 6E for the Tbird MAF (I will do custom changes for stuff like injector size, iron heads or hybrid motors or whatever else you need) and instructions on repinning the connectors. Please pm me for prices. I can supply the required 3 bar map sensor as well if you want to use Power Adder 6E. Let me know if you also want mounting hardware and the coil bracket modified for the iron heads. I verify that each ecm & coil pack works on my own vehicle before shipping. All kits are assembed on demand, expect a 2 week delay before shipping.

Full kit (shown with '85 reluctor)


Sensor & bracket


Standard Reluctor

ttypecamaro

iTrader: (2)

How much for just the MAP sensor? I can't find one for under $85.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Edited- please pm.

coolrimsatleast

What the heck, count me as one of the five. Last I tried the ECM swap I was still getting the same problem (but I did realize I was missing the fuel pump signal wire, so I might try again this weekend) I also put a new MAF relay in, but haven't noticed a difference really yet that I can tell driving around with the 302.

Having an ECM that works on someone elses car would be nice, as I don't know yet if I have a MAF problem, wiring problem (didnt find any shorts, checked pinout, etc), ECM problem (two of them with identical problems?) or memcal/chip tune problem.

I've been waiting for the weather to warm up a little before I mess with anything.
* I also need to fix my brakes first, they pull to the right, pulsate, and don't release for a second or two. I also have to tear the dash apart in the neon to get rid of a mouse nest, and my truck has an exhaust leak and no more 4wd, and I'm still cleaning out the garage so I can work on all this stuff.

QuickGlass

I looked over the Coding.txt file.

Can just the changes to replace the LV8 calculation with map sensor input be added to $32B?

Would I need to just add the code to: read the Map, PWR ENR TPS THRESHOLD vs MAP, PWR ENR TPS THRESHOLD vs %TPS?

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

You need to replace the LV8 calculation with map input, relocate the portion of code that handles filtered load and do alot of rescaling & reorganizing to the calibration & XDF. If you're up to it there's no reason not to.

QuickGlass

Thanks bl85c.
I was hoping that the map code would just take the place of the LV8 calculation.
The "do alot of rescaling & reorganizing" is the scary part.

For now, to eliminate the very lean tip in condition, I added a lot of fuel in the: BPW Fuel Vs. Load table.

The car really needs a map sensor. I will eventually change the $32B code or switch to your 6E code.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

I'm trying to find a new supplier for ecm's at the moment so please bear with me. I had a bulk deal at a damn good price but the seller reneged. The price may go up a bit for future orders but this won't effect existing orders.

jakemussman

iTrader: (3)

How much would this kit run?

Project 3.4 Camaro

New-
D10 ------------> A12 (splice)

I either don't have a d10 or ****ed up, and I don't think I screwed up...not sure why you listed it under new, but is it application specific, and if I did screw up can someone check what color it is for me...

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

You run a new wire from D10 & splice to A12. It's a ground.

Project 3.4 Camaro

Ah ok, that clarifies it, been up for about 30 hours, and literally at least 15 of that straight I was busting my *** on my car....Yeah makes sense now, didn't realize you meant to actually insert a whole new wire into d10, so if I am correct the A12 socket isn't utilized then, just need to send d10 to ground? Again, I'm beat so my mind isn't in top form atm. Thanks for the reply, hopefully in the morning when I get my new trans seal and throw the DS back in, take it off the bricks and wrap up a little top end work it'll fire up without trouble, really glad to find out about the d10 though, was driving me nuts not knowing wth to do with that one last wire..so as long as I didn't mess up with the DIS wiring, ECM repin, or putting the chip back on the memcal I should be golden....Guess I'm going to find out if I'm any good at electrical stuff, pretty much my first foray into that aspect, other than wiring in my headunit, but that's minor.

Project 3.4 Camaro

Can anyone verify for me whether or not A12 stays plugged in, I believe I just leave a12 as is, but tie in d10 so that both go to ground?? Since its a "new connection" and he didn't just have it under the repin section I am assuming that is what I am supposed to do.
Also kind of realized today that I may as well upgrade to SFI, I believe if memory serves that the 165 can run SFI? I mean, all the PITA trouble I am going through to swap ECM's, manifolds, and DIS, whats wiring up 2 more sensors for DIS, better economy, response and probalby a little power at RPMS where it still runs SFI, just seems silly to have everything else needed to run it and then not go the extra step of wiring in the cam and 2ndary crank sensor.
So if you could let me know on whether the 165 can run that, and how to wire for SFI(if you know) that would be great.
Also my fan kicks on now with ignition, is that something you set the ECM to do, or is indicative of a mistake? I didn't rewire the ALDL and I suspect that might be why, that shouldn't cause any problems though should it?

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

You plug the ground wire into A12 and run a new wire from D10 to A12. The '165 only has one injector driver so it can't run SFI.

Project 3.4 Camaro

Ok, any idea why the fan kicks on with ignition, also it won't crank? Not sure what the problem is unless the ALDL can cause that, which seems unlikely, also I went to swap E and M on my ALDL and there is no m, I have only 1 wire on that whole row, just to be clear, ALDL is the open diagnostic port under the steering wheel correct?

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

You're the second person with those symptoms... houston I think we have a problem. Please send me pics of how you have the connectors wired (top & bottom) so I can compare them to my car by color. Yours being an '85 should remove any doubt on color differences.

Project 3.4 Camaro

I can't get any pics right now, but will as soon as I can, I have 2 theories though, one is that its an ecm from a car that had VATS(no crank makes me wonder if its that) or maybe I messed up or have a bad ground.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

It doesn't crank at all? That's a separate issue then, there's no connection between the starter & the ecm. No vats on the '165.

Project 3.4 Camaro

Yeah, I asked Maverick and he suggested NSS at which point I facepalmed, my B&M shifter install isn't 100% integrated, I have the microswitches but they aren't on the shifter yet cause I need to go to a hardware store for the screws. Didn't occur to me that the NSS being disconnected would altogether disable cranking. Still leaves the fan in question though, I'm going to see if I can find out where exactly d11 goes to ground. If it grounded at the AC I might not have it grounded, though I never had the fan turning on with ign pwr before, is there any chance you set the ECM to run it with ign pwr? I don't think I requested that, but I might have, I have thought about hardwiring it before. If the weather is decent I'll be trying to fire it tomorrow, will update again once I get a chance to try it.

Project 3.4 Camaro

NSS was the cause of no crank, shes cranking and firing but just won't quite catch, I think I'm not getting enough fuel for some reason, pump sounds kinda funny like it might be sucking air or something, but its a new pump and I threw in a couple gallons of gas to be sure.
I did find a lovely little vacuum leak(bolt I had plugging an extra port on a connector had split it open some. And its firing more/better now, but still won't quite catch, I did have to blip the throttle before the swap to get the car to start, but I also had a busted valve spring apparently, so I shouldn't need to blip it now, but unfortunately I can't because I don't have my throttle cable and TV cable sorted yet. I don't have the bracket/clamp for the 3.4 fuel rail, but its not leaking so shouldn't be the fuel issue(I'm assuming fuel, it started briefly with fluid), there is a divet in the fuel rail though that I'm guessing the bracket fills, no idea if its anything more than a dowel pin hole though..but no fuel leaks from it, so doesn't seem to go through all the way, going to have to pull my sending unit and check the fuel pump hose clamp didn't pull off or something...times like this I'm glad I went the access panel route :P I suspected a leak, but checked under the car, at the engine bay, and where the SU lines exit and no leaks. Could be a bad FPR but the engine was from a running donor so it should be ok...That ecm isn't set for a CSI is it? Any input/suggestions appreciated.

Project 3.4 Camaro

Also is the SES light normally on during ign pwr engine off?, I can't recall, also still need some feedback on what to do with the ALDL, I'm missing one of them, M if memory serves, my one row has only 1 wire in it, and its on the very edge. But I would like to work out the ALDL so I can pull codes to figure out the problem if its not fuel. Which reminds me, is the 165 OBD? Ie. what tools are needed to scan codes and or reprogram it?

Project 3.4 Camaro

Pulled the SU and its in order, I still feel like the problem might be fuel though, since starter fluid gets it to start, I just can't think of any complications with the ECM swap that would cause it to get some fuel, but not enough to run, but I have no reason to think my fuel system is bad either. Could use an update here..also I took the pictures of the connectors, and will upload them shortly.

Project 3.4 Camaro

I had to use my mother's camera which is old and not that great, so quality could be better, but here's how I have things wired.

Project 3.4 Camaro

And the other connector.

Project 3.4 Camaro

I'm thinking injector harness, I noticed that another thread deals with it a little differently, while you splice c15 and d14 to d15 and d16(i didnt note this in order) the other thread just says to altogether disconnect them, why does each injector bank have 2 wires? I would THINK one would be a ground, but that doesn't make sense, and also noticed the 165 only has two inputs for the INJ harness.

Also, just to be clear on the splices of d14-d15 and c15-d16, you have it such that the two 246 bank wires are connected, and the two 135 bank wires are connected with their own doubles right? I can see logic for it going both ways, joining the two 135s together, and the two 246s together makes sense, but from a color perspective 135 and 246 joined makes sense...

Project 3.4 Camaro

A preliminary look shows that 870 and 302 do not share the same pinout, I have mapped out the differences between the 870 ECU and 165 ECU, and am going to write my own wiring diagram, undo my wiring changes and repin to my own diagram and see how that goes, if successful I will post my new wiring directions for those with 870's.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

WTF? Why haven't I recieved any notifications you posted... sevral times.

Splicing D14/D15 & C15/D16 is just for redundancy. As you figured out they just tie the 135 and 246 pairs together at the ecm. I had an '870 and wired it as a '302 and mine runs??? I even plugged a '302 to the stock '870 harness when I first started to be certain. Can you send me the '870 pinout you're looking at?

Project 3.4 Camaro

I actually just started my own thread comparing them and my findings, im about to post my cross reference analysis between the 870 and 165 over there as well, im basically moving this over there where its more likely to attract potential help, new thread is at:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/dfi-...ml#post4987258
And I was wondering why you hadn't replied in a while, figured you were busy, and if anyone car would be the oddball to reject the standard pinout it WOULD be MINE, she is a finicky high maintenance girl at the BEST of times. It's nothing personal, I just don't think I messed up the wiring, and did find some differences between the 302 and 870, though I didn't go to the trouble of cross referencing them, but for lack of knowing what else to do decided to start writing an all new pinout for 870-165.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Ok updated repin chart to eliminate some confusion. Simply disconnect pins C15 & D14 instead of splicing. Devil's in the details as always.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

I may have found a problem with PA6E, occasional wot breakup I'm trying to track down. Fuel shuts off randomly... if anyone is using PA6E revert back to NTRPMX for now.

Project 3.4 Camaro

Huh?

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

PA6E = Power Adder 6E.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Sorry to leave everyone twisting in the wind but I don't have time to make the ecm kits lately. I'll let everyone know here if I'm able to start making them again in the future.

ttypecamaro

iTrader: (2)

Did you ever get your PA6E code working correctly? I now have a spare 3 Bar MAP sensor and might wanna try it out.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

I've had zero time to mess with it, but you can try it out if you like. Everything else seems to work correctly, I just need to figure out the wot problem.

sam24th

iTrader: (1)

Ok I thought Id add to this a lil bit since Ive been working ont he bird this weekend. I tried swapping the ECM from 870->165 that I got from bl85. Ive got the repinning all correct. But the car still wont start. with the key in the on running position the fan kicks on, does anyone know if this is suppose to happen? It seems I am having the same symptoms as project 3.4.

ttypecamaro

iTrader: (2)

The fan comes on like that when there is a problem with the chip. It could be installed backwards or not burned or calibrated correctly.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

After a long hiatus I'm going to start working with the PA6E code again, I found the WOT problem but I haven't been sucessful finding a good work around yet. Will update when solved.