bl85c

Alright, here it is. The '870/'302 to '165 ecm swap for v6's.

Before I start I have to dish out the legal mumbo-jumbo. I cannot be held responsible for damage to you or your vehicle due to use, misuse or misinterpritation of the information contained in this guide. This is intended as educational and should not be misconstrued as a definitive swap. Now that that's out of the way...

This swap is compatible with any '85-'89 2.8 v6 equipped f-body since they all share a common wiring harness pinout. This is more or less a straight swap, you don't need to switch to the TPI v8 maf since the $32B mask is compatible with both analog and digital mafs. You don't need to add a knock sensor if you don't want to but I do require one be installed to use the second bin because of the enleanment features and a revised spark map. You'll also get a code if you try to run the second bin without a knock sensor & board.

First, you'll need a few things-

1227165 ecm (found in tpi v8 f-bodies, 4-banger s-10's and blazers)

memcal out of any 1227730 / 1227727 ecm equipped vehicle w/ a 2.8 or 3.1

harness repin tool (paperclip with one end filed at an angle)

soldering iron with a fine tip (or an exacto knife)

copy of tunerpro or another suitable tuning program

copy of one of my base bins

copy of my "32B (v6) XDF" definition file (modified for the v6 maf)

chip burner (I use a willems burner, just $40 on ebay)

and an eeprom chip

Depending on which base bin you use and how involved you want to get you may want to add a knock sensor as well. One from a '90-'92 3.1 f-body is best, but just about any off a 2.8 or 3.1 v6 will work.

Removing the old ecm


'165 to be swapped in

bl85c

Disconnect the original ecm and begin repinning using this chart. To remove a wire remove the retaining clip from the back of the plug, insert the repin tool into the 'upper' hole on the front of the plug at a slight angle and pull the wire out from the back. Takes a couple tries to get the feel of it, but it's pretty simple.

'870/’302 --> '165
-------------------------------------------
Repin-

A11 --> C12
B4 --> D4
C5 --> C6
C6 --> C5
C9 --> D11
D2 --> C1
D8 --> C15
D13 --> D2
D15 --> D16
D16 --> D15
ALDL E --> ALDL M

-------------------------------------------
Disconnect-

A2 --> disconnect
B9 --> disconnect
C12 --> disconnect

-------------------------------------------
Splice-

C15 --> D15
D10 --> A12
D14 --> D16

-------------------------------------------
New-

Knock sensor --> B11


High-tech repin tool


Removing a pin

bl85c

Both bins are available at moates.net in the downloads section under custom modified binaries, the definition file is available under binary editor definitions / tunerpro xdf files in the custom folder. The "Stock 2.8 \'165ecm (B)" bin file is basically a stock tune straight out of a '302 with few changes, this will work with a completely stock engine without a knock sensor or knock module. The "2.8 v6 \'165ecm (B)" bin file is modified for use with a knock sensor. It has a revised spark map, improved accel enrich tables and all the neat fuel saving features like 'DFCO' and decel enlean enabled. The second bin is by far the better base to start with but requires a knock sensor be installed. Before you can install a new chip you'll need to remove the old eprom chip and the knock board from the '730/'727 memcal. You can either desolder them or -carefully- punch them out a pin at a time using an exacto knife. Program your chip and plug it into the memcal. Then remove the old memcal from the '165 and replace it with the new memcal.

To hook up a knock sensor first plug the knock board back into the memcal. Then remove the bolt on the passenger side of the block below the exhaust manifold, screw the knock sensor in (with teflon tape) and torque to 14 ft/lbs. Run the signal wire to pin B11 on the harness. Working it into the harness means taking some of it apart, but you can splice it into the cabin connector by taking advantage of one of the wires that were disconnected from the harness.

Removing a memcal


'165 memcal


'727/'730 memcal


Knock sensor position

bl85c

Some other things I should mention are that both bins use the stock fueling and pulsewidth tables, which appear to make it run rich. I haven't been able to verify this yet (still waiting on my wb O2 kit) so it could be farther off than I think, but it seems to be running well. I plan on re-releasing both bins with corrected fueling tables as soon as I get my tune worked out. Theres no power steering logic in $32B so with the wheel fully cranked at low speeds it may stall. I raised the stall saver speed to 500rpm to counter this. I've rarely encountered stalling, but I'm in Denver so this probably won't be a problem for anyone at lower altitude. You can hook up a TPI (analog) maf and run $6E so you can use highway enleanment, but you'll have to figure that out for yourself. I'd like to run $6E with highway enlean on to see what kind of mileage I'd get, but I plan on sticking with digital maf's. The v6's already get nearly 30mpg on the highway, and with highway enlean mileage should be impressive. Maybe we could stirr up some interest in a highway enlean patch for $32B?

With this ecm's tuneability you can modify your v6 however you want. Headers, radical cams, porting, block swaps, 3x00 top end swaps, turbocharging and anything else. The biggest restriction for v6 owners has to be the lack of interest in the v6 ecms, with that out of the way anything's possible.

ttypecamaro

Just go my 165 ecm today... planning to crank the boost past 7psi in an 88 bird. I have both types of MAF sensor, do you know if the V6 (digital) MAF can read as many g/s as the V8 analog MAF?

Fast355

Prior to putting an electronic transmission into my 3.1 S10, I was working with a 1986 Fiero ECM ("170 ECM, $24 code) to run the MPFI 3.1. Its a MAP ECM that supports a 2-bar MAP sensor(personally tested it) and has an XDF available.

Fast355

The V6 MAF can only read 150 gms/sec and the V8 MAF can read 255 gms/sec.

fictmich

Hey I've got a 3.1 without a MAF sensor, would this work for that or would I need to do something else?

bl85c

fictmich-You have a '730 ecm, which has plenty of support. Do a quick search and you'll find a ton on it.

ttypecamaro- the tpi maf with the $6e mask would be the better setup to use, I have some wiring diagrams if you need them. You're on your own working out the bin though, there's alot that needs to be changed.

ttypecamaro

isn't the wiring going to be the same as $32B plus two more wires to the MAF and the burnoff relay? I have a chilton's

things to change:
-cylinder select ($C0)
-injector flow rate (37pph@43.5psi)
-scale down some of the P.E. & A.E. stuff (maybe the blm load boundaries too) due to lower Load(LV8) from the smaller engine.
Is that the extent of the changes, or can you think of more.

do you think I could transfer most of the values from the stock tune? or do they need to be tweaked once transfered? I shouldn't need to modify the definition file like you did if I go with the analog meter, right?

I have a base tune for the stock $3A mask with LT1 injectors and 7psi (93octane). The stock MAF can actually measure more than 150g/s... I multiplied the MAF tables by .76 and it still pegs at 150g/s (just at a higher digital count) while maintaining the proper AFR. In theory, it is accurately measuring up to 197g/s, and I haven't tried to go any higher because the injector duty cycle is getting high.

bl85c

The v6 maf doesn't have a burnoff relay and such so the v6 wiring is much simpler. I'll post a pic of the TPI relay wiring.

There's much more that needs to be changed. I'd have to go through the definition I made and make a list to tell you all of them, and some of the things I had to change probably won't be added to most copies of $6E. I also had to tweak a few tables to get things running right. Things don't just translate nicely from the '302 to the '165 as much as I wish they would've. You might have to mess with the definition file as well, but not too much. Most of what I had to change in $32B was maf related so things weren't mislabled or have the wrong conversion factor.

bl85c

Here's the analog maf wiring.

bl85c

Using a few formulas and the good 'ol butt dyno I've released new base bins. Same names as before except with (C) at the end. These have a considerably shorter pw table, Int and Blm's show it's running leaner.

bl85c

Wideband's here! Forget the old (B) and (C) tunes, now I have a definitive awnser on how it's really running. I'll release the final tune as soon as I can.

bl85c

Several people have asked me what the benefits to a swap like this are, so I thought I'd post them all here.

Obviously the main benefit is being able to tune. You can't datalog with the stock ecm, so achieving an accurate tune is nearly impossible even if you have a scanner (which is another $200!) and even if you could datalog with the stock ecm the '165 transmits data at 8192 baud (3-4 datapoints/sec) vs the stock ecm's 160 baud (1 datapoint/1-2 sec's) and the '165 also processes data at a higher rate. The stock ecm is tuned a bit rich, so by tuning the 'slop' out of it you can get more power and better mileage. The '165 also has features like decel fuel cut off and decel enleanment that can enhance fuel mileage. Another huge benefit is the ability to add a knock sensor. If you get your tune wrong or something fails and your engine runs lean knock retard is there to bail you out. You also have the option to use the TPI maf which reads up to 255 g/sec airflow, whereas the stock one only reads 150 g/sec. You can also run a TPI maf in boost without inaccurate readings like you'd get with the stock maf. And by using the $6E mask you can use highway enleanment which has the potential for great mileage gains.

drdave88

Having a manual trans wont matter correct? Im curious as to what kind of difference youve seen in this in fuel mileage and power difference. is it like 1 or 2 miles a gallon and from the butt-dyno is the difference "eehhh" or quite a big difference? I was going to have a guy tune mine for me this spring for $200, but if i can pull this off for less than half the price..... hmmmmmm. im fairly new to the tuning world so a lot of this stuff is greek to me yet.

bl85c

There's a switch in $32B to select either a manual or auto. I'm still working out the tune (I just got the wideband 3 days ago) so it's hard to say just what benefits I'll realize with this, but I'm definately happy with it so far. I was getting about 17 mpg before, now I regularly see 22 mpg (all city driving). DFCO and decel enlean make a big difference, I can't wait to see what I'll get after I get it dialed in. There's a slight hesitation going to wot from a dead stop, but like I said I'm still ironing out the details. Wot still feels more or less the same because it's still using the stock power enrichment tables, but what suprised me was how much smoother it felt. With a little more spark and careful attention to wot afr I'll be able to get it to pull harder. And it idles like glass, it used to surge and burble with the stock ecm. I should mention that the injectors are from a 2.9L ranger (part no. F1ZE) and I have an open exhaust, but otherwise it's completely stock. The 2.9L injectors are great, fuel atomization and response is 1000X better than the stock injectors. Thanks to jstrdn90rs for suggesting them.

bl85c

Small update. An ALDL definition file for the '32B (v6) XDF' with the MAT input modified for LC-1 input is now available at moates.net. This definition file allows you to input WB data directly from an LC-1 into pin C12 and display the actual AFR inplace of the MAT data. File name is "1227165 B (WB)" in the Datastream Definitions section.

KrisW

Consider me subscribed!

Wow, my head hurts. I'm just learning the intricacies of tuning and this is pretty overwhelming!

Whew! I need a beer!

Thanks guys.

__________________
Project "X" is now alive! Stay tuned for updates!

USE B-O-P!!
Stay original!

bl85c

Yea, and this is just the part swapping end of it.
Things don't start getting complex until you get into the actual tuning. Then there's source code modifying. I tried learning a little source code- it was like running into a wall. Unless you have a background in it writing/modifying code is a very steep learning curve.

bl85c

Another update, turns out the MAT input measures resistance instead of voltage, so the "1227165 B (WB)" aldl definition file is inaccurate. A corrected one that uses the fuel pump signal pin (B2) for WB input is available under the name "1227165 C (WB)". When using the updated aldl definition wb output needs to be adjusted to 12:1AFR @ 0volts and 17:1AFR @ 5volts. And yes, the final bin is almoast ready.

bl85c

As promised, the final bins for $32B. The new names are '2.8 \165ecm (F)' and 'Stock 2.8 \165ecm (F)'. I've decided to leave the BPW table alone because the ecm switches from the CTS to the MAT for some tables when using the BPW table. Keep that in mind when tuning with it. The stock closed loop and wot tables seem to be doing well enough on their own so they're stock too, but the difference in accel enrich (pump shot) should be noticeable between the two. No bog and a nice 'lil push where there was none before. I've spent a lot of time getting the feel of dfco just right on the second bin. It doesn't trigger so often that it's irritating, but it should cut fuel just about every time you let off the throttle. Tcc lock is smoother and stays locked at a higher throttle position. It should run leaner when the tcc's locked, kind of a "phantom highway enleanment". I still haven't figured out why it does this, but it's a great feature I didn't expect. Enleanment is proportional to throttle position, up to 16.5:1.

Now for those who want to switch to $6E and and analog maf (that reads over 255g/sec) Fast355 has the solution. He plans to use a ford 70mm t-bird maf on his 3.4/3500 hybrid, which is the perfect solution for us v6'ers. You don't need to wire up extra relays because it doesn't have a burnoff function. Just switch plugs, burn a new chip and hook it up with a 3" rubber coupler.

Boostin'xr4

Great writeup! Where do I get the EEPROM chip?
Is it specific to this ECM, or is it a generic chip?

bl85c

It's just an SST 27sf512 eeprom. Craig (moates.com) has them for $5.00 ea. or you can get them from an electronics distributor like mouser.

tequilaboy

Thanks for the tip on the fuel pump pin (B2).

I will try and use this pin for the MAF input for use with the 05+ Ford slot style MAF (Hitachi) that I've been working on lately.

I will just need to correct the bin to read A/D ch 6 instead of A/D ch A for the MAF input reads.

bl85c