400Z28Racer

iTrader: (4)

First of all I would like to thank JP86SS for his great help, and this project would not be possible without his help.

anyway this hack I did (with John's help) is to enable linear wide band dataloging for MAF 165 6E.
simply plug your Vout from your wideband to D8 pin in your ecm, and use the Ads file for your datastream on tunerpro.
there is only one problem which is "Engine Run time" will not display correctly but who cares.

i hope you guys enjoy it and happy tuning

Ivan

Edit: The file is now also available at Moates website in the file section under Custom Modified Binaries

Please use ARAPWB for automatic transmission https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-prom/533625-apypwb-arapwb-wideband-data.html#post4216094

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

Here is the thread that started it all.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...osed-loop.html
If link doesn't work, Search for "WBo2 Closed Loop?"
For anyone else who wants to play with the source code and assemble it themselves.

MikeT 88IROC350

I cannot beleive no one else has replied to this post. This is good stuff!! FYI, the compressed file from the first post did not work, had an error message, corrupt file or something. So i went to the Moates site and got it. It opened up fine from there.
This is something I was working on my own last summer, to get my LM1 WB linear output in the datastream using TP RT. Of course I got some ideas from reading the above thread. But once winter hits my IROC gets parked and my tuning takes a break.
I thought I had it working, but I questioned the accuracy of what I saw in the WB field.

So it looks like after you get the new APYPWB hack, you need to get all your current bin values into the new bin, so it will be specific to your engine? I took a look at the new bin. What engine application is that for originally? I am using a spin-off of the ARAP bin, as most of $6E tuners use. Hope it is ok to post Q's here, cuz I got more.

GTA Sammy

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys quick question...
I'm just getting started with my autoprom and the learning curve is steep!!!
I bought a Wideband O2 Sensor with Guage last summer knowing that I had to get into the chip tuning thing...

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...0&autoview=sku

Where is this D8 pin in the ECM that your talking about? Is it relatively easy to do?
I wanted to monitor my A/F ratio while I was datalogging..... this would make all that possible right????

I hope that someone can help me out "I'm a newbie"

MikeT 88IROC350

[QUOTE=GTA Sammy;4115686]Hey guys quick question...

[
Where is this D8 pin in the ECM that your talking about? Is it relatively easy to do?
I wanted to monitor my A/F ratio while I was datalogging..... this would make all that possible right????

[QUOTE]

I tell you what I know. D8 is just an unused pin on the 32 pin connector to the ECM. I think what I did was goto my local GM store, and bought some of the correct contacts for that connector. Then I just crimped a wire to it, which was the analog out of my LM1 WB. I can tell you that this works.

GTA Sammy

iTrader: (1)

Man-O-Man.......

Guess I'll have to take a look at the ECM once the ice melts off my garage floor.... seeing is believing... and I'll have to see it for myself cause I can't picture it...

This does look very interesting though!!!!!!
I'd love to datalogue "everything" so that I can tune more efficiently...

Is anybody else doing this? (besides the 2 or three...)

400Z28Racer

iTrader: (4)

I tested the accuracy of the hack vs LC1 Software, and it seemed to be dead on. As far as APYPWB, it is a stock bin (APYP) for 89 Ybody 350 TPI 6 speed manual maf system, and you need to transfer your current ARAP values to APYPWB.

By the way, if there is enough interest in EGT dataloging , I will implement it another hack for this bin

400Z28Racer

iTrader: (4)

I tested it on 2 cars + mine and it works flawlessly

GTA Sammy

iTrader: (1)

I'll see if I can make this work........
May need help along the way!!!!

I can't believe that you guys have figured all this out!!!!!!!

thebruce

Does this mean I can just buy a replacement Bosch WB02 sensor, connect the sensor V-out wire to the ECU, and not have to spend the additional $100 or so for a gauge and whatnot?

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

Uh Oh, The source code bug has bit another
It is nice when you want to see something and then you can just add it.

Check for any pull up/downs on the input you want to use to confirm the signal won't get skewed by it. Might need to do surgery to scratch off the trace on the board to disable the power to it. Not dificult just need to find it. Check the schematics on Ludi's site if your not sure which input is open for use.

the Bruce,
You will need a sensor and a controller.
The controller provides power to the WB and conditions the output to be 0-5 volts. That's all you need.
The external gauge or displays are optional when you can log it into the ECM.

400Z28Racer

iTrader: (4)

LOL, Cool thanks for the tip. I am thinking about implementing WB as feedback to ECM instead of O2 NB. I think that I have to change all memory addressrs of NB to the WB adresses.
maybe I'll do it one of those days, I just want to stay away from cars for now

GTA Sammy

iTrader: (1)

Alright after reading that last post again, I think my bubble just burst.

I thought by doing this hack that the ECM would now use the WB as it's new primary O2 sensor and you could pitch the NB O2 Sensor... and with that being said you could now datalogue the info from the ECM through your ALDL.

As it is, if I understand everything correctly...... the car would still run off your NB, and You would run another O2 Sensor Bung in the other collector with your WB O2 in it and run it into the D8 pin so that it could be datalogued for tuning sake..... through the ALDL....

Do I have it right????

I have LC-1 wideband sensor (that hasn't been installed yet) but I hadn't planned on having 2 sensors running for some reason..... Guess I'll have too right?

Please help me straighten it out!!!

400Z28Racer

iTrader: (4)

yes you are correct; however, LC1 has 2 analog output: one can be used to simulate NB O2 sensor, and the other for Wideband. so you do not have to weld another bung.

GTA Sammy

iTrader: (1)

I'll have to look for the 2nd analog output..... don't see it.... Maybe it's different than the LM-1???
I sure would love to use only 1 O2 sensor.....



Just came back from the Innovate Website and I do have a Analog 1 and 2...
so I can simulate the NB for the ECM and Watch the WB contoller on my Triple Pod. Yippee

Now we'll see if i can get my head around this patch

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

I am just starting to tune the 86 maf tpi with AutoProm and TunerPro RT. I don't have a wideband but this makes sense tho... Basically the WBo2 is just so that you can see if what you are changing equals an AFR of 14.7 at every RPM? If not using a WBo2 (i didnt get one.. yet) then what is the difference between NBo2 and WBo2? Why wouldn't a NBo2 read the same thing? I downloaded the ARAP 6E bin by the way is this the right one for my 86 auto maf TPI?

thnx in advance!

MikeT 88IROC350

The WB O2 will do much more than that. Read up on some posts, you will get it. It is more for tuning WOT, PE, AE, and lean cruise. 14.7 is just the magic number for perfectly burning gasoline. You really dont need a WB if that is what you want to tune to. Think of the NB O2 as just a switching device, from rich to lean. That is really all it does. Don't worry about that 14.7 number. Instead, make changes to get your BLM and INTs close to 128.

Yes, the ARAP $6E bin is a good bin to use for any 350 TPI MAF engine, with auto tranny. Just make sure you have the '165 ECM, and the $6E tdf files. I am sure the 86 cars used the $32B TDF.

Craig Moates

Wow, time flies, doesn't it?

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...2-logging.html

Good stuff, glad to see the MAF still kicking. I've got mine in a box somewhere...

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

Ah yes the BLM and the INT. I've read about those two, and tuning them to 128 in open loop first and then doing in again in closed loop. That's another story tho... So the ARAP $6E bin is good for 350 TPI MAF's? I have a 305 TPI MAF with a chip that has some settings already how I want... I want to start tuning from the setting on my current chip, so would I still need the BIN files and/or the tdf files? If so, which one is it for mine, $6E or is it $32B. I have done: !Cold start injector, !AIR !EGR !AC..

The chip I have now is from TPI PArts.net and it has custom settings to accomodate the things that were removed so my car runs decent now. But it's a stock tune so that is why I would like to start from the settings on this chip so I don't have to fiddle with these things since they are already done. I think they used the code from 89 MAF for this chip.. Not sure..

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

Careful, your dating yourself as an old timer
I have a 95 MAF I never figured out what to do with too!
Hybrid code to run either MAF or SD would be cool...
That should go into the other thread.

MikeT 88IROC350

Well some people tune in open loop, but not me. Closed tune for 128 is great for part throttle settings. The ARAP bin might be too agressive for a 305, but if you are modified.....You can always change the settings to whatever you want. There are many bins out there for our cars. So if you have a '86 TPI, that did use the 1227165 ECM. That is the good news. But the cal file used for your year was $32. Sort of a one of a kind. So if you want to read that custom chip, you might need the $32 TDF. The good news is that you can upgrade to the latest TDF used for MAF cars, which is the $6E. And then you can get a hold of the ARAP bin.
Enjoy!

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

I'll try both and see what happens! I have't even started yet! Good news is the car is out and I'm starting tomorrow!! So happy!
What is a "BIN" ? I know it's a file you download and load into TunerPro RT but how does it affect the settings? Does it have its own settings? If this "ARAP" file is a "BIN" then what are the $6E and $32 files for? Also how would I 'upgrade' to the $6E and what are the benefits to this?
Also, I have a modified engine completely... Internals forged, cam, heads, intake ported, everything, so I would be willing to run a bit more aggressively... But could this blow the engine if it's too aggressive? If so i'd rather start with something like stock settings and tune it from there..

Thanks in advance!!

gta324

What should the analog out be programmed to?
AFR 10 = 0V
AFR 20 = 5v

or?

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

Use the (7.35-22.39 AFR = 0-5 V) LC-1 setting
Use calculation in ADS = mult by 0.05898039 +7.35 offset

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

The BIN or "Binary" file is the software code with parameters compiled so the computer can run it.
The $32 & $6E are different programs (Mask ID's) that can be run on the same hardware (165 ECM)
There are different BCC or programs such as ARAP, etc that are different factory versions of either a $32 or $6E mask.
ADS= Datalogging definition
ECU or XDF= BIN Editing definition.
Definitions are different for each "Mask ID" because locations of items are different.
These files indicate the placement within the Binary program that the item is at.
Without the "Roadmaps" to indicate where the item is you wouldn't know what to change.
They also convert the values like 0-255 counts into engineering units you can understand such as Deg C, RPM, Kpa, etc.
It gets rid of the cold start injector for one, Other things I'm not sure of.

There's always that chance but starting from stock and working it slowly and watching results, you can do it safely.
HTH

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

This is great! Now I can hook my fuel pump diag pin back up . Resolution will be 1000X better than the way I have mine set up now, and I can use the wb's whole output. Thanks!

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Not sure if there's a bug, but I got a maf high error and the INT won't enrich. Maybe related to the fact that I have maf input on C11 instead of B12? Ran fine before doing this.

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

From the first post, (Did I miss something?)
Why did you move the MAF input?

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Because I'm using an analog t-bird maf. It's a V6 car (digital maf originally)- I needed an analog maf without burnoff so I didn't have to wire in all the extra crap to run a tpi maf. Can't read the signal on B12 or D8, only on C11. If I recall a pullup resistor was interfering on those pins...

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

So this basically datalogs rpm vs wideband airfuel so you dont have to buy a rpm converter for the LC-1 stuff to read air fuel vs rpm? That is pretty nice addition.

I ended up tuning in open loop and just watching my wideband gauge and rpm and made changes that way no problems. Just harder to do because you have to keep watching the road, gauge and rpm all at the same time.

Figures this hack comes out right when i decide to go to SD for my boosted project... lol

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

All's good, teqilaboy found where the maf read locations were moved to. Thanks.

gta324

can someone email me a ARAPWB.bin file?

gta324(at)hotmail.com

thx

/N.

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

You got mail

IE can be a real PITA about these things. FireFox saves the day.

gta324

thx!

/N.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

Bringin' this back from a the almost-dead...

Planning on buying the LM-1 kit of moates.net and I have three questions about this hack:

"simply plug your Vout from your wideband to D8 pin in your ecm, and use the Ads file for your datastream on tunerpro."
What exactly is a 'vout' from the wideband and how/where does it plug into the 'D8' pin in the ecm? If anyone has pics this would help alot!

I understand how to use the ADS file to datalog I got that working. It says it is mismatched with the XDF file when I load up to ADS file, is this normal?

Also, I have my own custom 6E bin that I have been working on. Can I use this ADS file with the current 6E bin that I have now or do I HAVE to use the APYPWB file and transfer over the parameters from my 6E custom bin?

Thanks in advance!
-Marc

MikeT 88IROC350

This post should (will) never be dead! LOL! I will help as much as I can from memory. The LM1 WB has a jack on the bottom for "Analog out". You need to connect that to pin D8 at the ECM. I think I bought the special cable from IM, which is like 6' long and just has loose wire ends. Then I got the correct mating contact, from local GM dealer, and tapped into the ECM D8. Works great! I try to attach a picture of that.

As far as the mismatched file error in TP, that is a common error, and is easy to fix. Just that I cannot recall it right now. Do a search here, and you will find it.

Lastly, yes, you need the modified ARAPWB or APYPWB bins, to get this feature to work. So you will have to copy all your settings over from your custom bin. There are some neat tools in the editors to do this fairly easy.

I have been using this feature for over a year now, and it is awesome! Gotta see that WB value with all the other datastream parameters. Happy tuning!

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

Wow that might be a little too advanced for me.. I am lost when it comes to terminology of wiring. Is there any wire i can buy that is 'plug n play'? Like that 6' long cable you are talking about.. But with the correct mating contact already on it. And how do you "tapp" it into the ECM D8?

Okay no problem transfering the BIN over I'm pretty sure I know how to do that I saw a way you could compare bins so i'll check that.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

You don't need to pay gm for one of those terminals, just go to a salvage yard and cut the connector off an ecm. Remove one of the pins and solder or crimp onto the lm1's wire and plug into pin d8 on your ecm's connector.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

Ok i got the wiring part i think. But now im confused about where and how it plugs into the ECM? Are you talking about this black plastic slot here? If so, then which slot does the connector go into?

MikeT 88IROC350

For the 6' analog output cable, just get it from Moates, p/n is 3730, cost is 8$ so it is a no brainer. For the special contact, you can do what bl85 said or get them from GM.

As far as the connector, you really need a schematic for your ECM connectors. Now dont get too scared off from this. If you have a good shop manual on your ride, it should have a pinout for the ECM. There are different connectors on each ECM, but you cannot really mess it up. I think from memory that pin D8 was allready empty on my ECM.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

The pins are labeled on the slot the connector goes into for convenience . Find D8 and take the retaining clip off the backside of the connector and plug the wire into the backside of the connector like all the other wires are. When you look at it it's obvious.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

Ok i think i'll be able to find the connector on the ECM.. I'll order that 6' wire from MOATES and crimp the special contact on it.. MikeT you mentioned that GM would have it? Does this special contact have a name? I'm not sure exactly what to look for, or should I just show them the pic you uploaded? :S

MikeT 88IROC350

You could try and take the photo to your dealer, but it is not the best picture. I looked up the GM p/n from my records, so here it is. 12146447
It was many years ago when I got the contacts, so who knows if they still have them or can get them. Remember, our cars are getting old!
Good Luck!

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

If anyone is looking for the ECM connector pins, a year or two ago, I saw them packaged by Dorman at my local pep boys. Dont know if they still carry them, but its worth a shot.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Here they are: http://www.dormanproducts.com/p-12129-638-826.aspx

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

Wow you guys are seriously awesome. Thanks so much! I can't wait to try this out when the snow melts! (gotta wait another 3-4 months )

EDIT: I looked up the GM part number that was supplied, and it seems the gauge might be different for the two? The doorman one is 20-18 gauge pin type and the delphi one i found (http://www.pcsconnectors.com/12146447.aspx) is 20/22 gauge. ???

MikeT 88IROC350

I would suggest getting the contact for the smaller wire size, which would be 20/22 guage. The analog output wire you get from the Moates cable is pretty small. Glad to see you can still get these contacts.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

damn shipping is gonna cost me 20$ for the connector and like 30$ for the wire!! gonna try to find theae things locally

327_TPI_77_Maro

iTrader: (8)

You can buy the ECM pins on ebay for like 10 bucks for a full set, I just did. I think they came from user tpi_parts. Shipping was only another 3 or 4 dollars.

So I have to use both the APYP WB bin AND the 1227165 $6E (WB) data stream to log the LC-1 in tunerpro, or can I use just the data stream definition and keep my own 6E bin?

MikeT 88IROC350

I am going to say YES to this question. You need both, they are modified to make the WB AFR get thru the datastream. I think the APYP bin is for manual tranny, and the ARAPWB is for the autos.
There are many tools out there, in the editor programs, to copy over settings from your own custom bin. Shouldnt be too much of a problem. Just make sure you save the bin as something else, so you can go back to original if needed.
Mike