roguecoxnet

Okay which one should I go with. I have multiple 350 TPI/TBI vehicles thats why I'm leaning towards the Moates Burn2 but than again the realtime of the emulator sounds good to. I don't have many mods just wanting to get into programming and messing around with tunning my own vehicles. What do you guys think, I've got about $400 to play around with so if you think theres another option please let me know. Anyone got a youtube video using a burner?

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Six_Shooter

Both! Seriously.

If you have multiple vehicles you want to program, and can only choose one or the other, get the BURN2.

Best bet is to use the Ostrich to tune with, then once you have a good tune, then you can burn it to an EEPROM.

I started with a cheaper programmer, a Willem "Dual power" programmer. It's about $35 from MCUMall.com. It's tricky to use with jumper and dip switch setting changes. I think it has a problem with destroying EEPROMs, so I bought a Willems "True USB" GQ-3X programmer, about the same money as the BURN2, but will program more than just the automotive EEPROMs, so it takes a little more know how than the BURN2 which is set-up specifically for automotive use.

Don't forget you will need MEMCAL or EPROM adaptors, so that should be factored in as well, to your budget. ECMs like the '7730, need the G1 adaptor, ECMs like the '7747 need a G2 adaptor, in either case I would also recomend getting a ZIF socket (S2), since that will save on breaking or damaging the EEPROMs during installation and removal.

I'm also going to mention the ALDU1+CABL1 for connecting to the ALDL connector to get actual data being sent out by the ECM, to know what effect the changes are having.

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Lucid

Now, if you just want to get your feet wet and dont want to spend a lot of money, the Burn2 is a good way to get into tuning the affordable way. The only thing is you need to keep some extra chips around to keep swapping them out but its pretty painless with a ZIF.

Some people take to tuning faster than others, so if you are unsure, try the Burn2 and see how you like it.

I have been using a Burn1 for a couple years now and it takes longer to edit the BIN than it does to flash the chip. I have two TPI cars, one with a G1 and my daily with a G3, both with ZIF sockets (I hate prying those chips out).

Moates has a documentation part on the website that will walk you through using the burner. Most likely you will be using the 27SF512 chip, if you are going with the Burn2, so get familiar with the offsets.

There is another option called the Autoprom:

-Usb prom emulation
-chip burning
-aldl datalogging

Its like getting a Burn2 AND the Ostrich AND the ALDL cable all in one package. This is the serious tuning package.

As Six_shooter said, factor in the cost of chips, the chip adapters and ZIF sockets into the total cost of everything. The Ostrich is a nice tool but its a one car at a time type of thing.

RBob

Note that if you use a ZIF that the chips tend to walk out of them. When this happens the ECM will start resetting and may end up in limp mode. Just be aware of this so if it happens you aren't taken by surprise.

RBob.

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Six_Shooter

Interesting. Over what amount of time has this happened?

I've used a ZIF socket in a few vehciles now and never experianced the chips "walking out". One vehicle had frequent EEPROM changes, another has never had the EMU cable (Ostrich 2.0 used) removed from the ZIF socket since it was installed (about 6 months of use or so).

RBob

I've had it happen within 15 minutes of putting the chip in to taking a couple of days (about an hour or so of driving each day). There are some threads here started by others that have had the same issue.

RBob.

Six_Shooter

Do you know the brand or type of ZIF socket?

I'm using the S2 from moates, I don't recall the brand. I have read about people having problems with the "low profile" ZIF socket, on Honda forums.

RBob

It was the full size Aries sockets. This was also with ceramic bodied EPROMs which may make a difference over the plastic bodied flash PROMs. There is a significant weight difference between the two.

Of course the roads around here are on the rough side (that may be an understatement ).

RBob.

Lucid

I have noticed the chip to a be a little loose a couple times but have not experienced the car going into limp home mode. The roads here are pretty bombed out here as well and lots of speed bumps.

I am thinking of making a door out of lexan with a foam backing to help keep the chip in place, now that you mention it.

Thanks for bringing this up, I never would have thought that a ZIF could be an issue.

Daveinet

I sort of have the same question, only I was thinking of using the G3, so I can try different settings on the fly. I'm thinking if I can pre-program several options that I think will work, I can switch through several programs and test which one runs best. Kind of like a poor mans emulator, you just have to guess ahead of time what will work. I'm hoping that I can test WOT and switch between programs while I'm accelerating and see if I can feel the difference, since I can't afford dyno time. Any thoughts?

Six_Shooter

The problem with switching at WOT is that as you accelerate you'll be in different cells as you accelerate, due to the load cells changing during teh acceleration. You would need to do more than just use a "butt dyno" to make sure you really are making good changes, like timed runs, such as at a drag strip, and/or using a G-tech type accelerometer.

__________________
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Daveinet

Since this is in a 13K lbs motorhome, making a run in second gear doesn't change cells very fast. I was also thinking that if I graph rpm, O2, and relate that to prom ID, I should be able to look at what happened under what conditions.