Go Back   Third Generation F-Body Message Boards > Tech Boards > DIY PROM
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?

DIY PROM Do It Yourself PROM chip burning help. No PROM begging. No PROMs for sale. No commercial exchange. Not a referral service.

Welcome to ThirdGen.org!
Welcome to ThirdGen.org.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, join the ThirdGen.org community today!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-27-2009, 01:57 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Jail
Posts: 115
Car: Revcon Motorhome ECM:16197427 BJKW
Engine: 502 HT W/MPFI, Thorleys, Magnaflows
Transmission: 4L80E
Axle/Gears: 3.53 + Transfercase 1.11

Classifieds Rating: (0)
Incressed injector constant and cylinder volume constant

I'm running a set up on my 502 that was done by some else and am trying to understand why they made the choices they made. For some reason, the injector constant was increased over actual, as well as the cylinder volume. This seem counter productive, as telling the ECM you have a larger engine, but then telling it the injectors are larger, wouldn't one setting cancels out the other. Is there some unique way in which the ECM responds to these changes, that makes it work better for a specific situation?

set up is :16197427 BJKW 502HT W/ Edelbrock MPFI
Daveinet is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2009, 02:09 AM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Madisonville, Ky
Posts: 136
Car: 94 Silverado
Engine: 383 Vortec TBI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 2.73

Classifieds Rating: (0)
Re: Incressed injector constant and cylinder volume constant

The only thing I can think of is that it was a "cheat" to get the BLM's close without doing a whole lot of work to the VE table.
Nub383 is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2009, 12:35 PM   #3
Supreme Member
 
JP86SS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Browns Town
Posts: 2,933
Car: 86 Monte SS (730,$8D,G3,AP,4K,S_V4)
Engine: 406 Hyd Roller
Transmission: 700R4 HomeBrew, 3.8K stall 3 diskLU
Axle/Gears: 3:73 Posi, 7.5 Soon to break

Classifieds Rating: (0)
Re: Incressed injector constant and cylinder volume constant

Injector constant could be due to higher than stock fuel pressure.
I would guess the cyl constant was to fudge something like stated above.
JP86SS is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2009, 12:31 AM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Jail
Posts: 115
Car: Revcon Motorhome ECM:16197427 BJKW
Engine: 502 HT W/MPFI, Thorleys, Magnaflows
Transmission: 4L80E
Axle/Gears: 3.53 + Transfercase 1.11

Classifieds Rating: (0)
Re: Incressed injector constant and cylinder volume constant

Does the ECM respond to lower the injector constant in the same way it responds to increasing the cylinder size?
Daveinet is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2009, 01:05 AM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Madisonville, Ky
Posts: 136
Car: 94 Silverado
Engine: 383 Vortec TBI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 2.73

Classifieds Rating: (0)
Re: Incressed injector constant and cylinder volume constant

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveinet View Post
Does the ECM respond to lower the injector constant in the same way it responds to increasing the cylinder size?
I would set it all correctly in the bin and tune the VE table. Of course I don't even own a roll of duct tape so "quick fixes" don't go over well in my book.
Nub383 is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2009, 01:21 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Jail
Posts: 115
Car: Revcon Motorhome ECM:16197427 BJKW
Engine: 502 HT W/MPFI, Thorleys, Magnaflows
Transmission: 4L80E
Axle/Gears: 3.53 + Transfercase 1.11

Classifieds Rating: (0)
Re: Incressed injector constant and cylinder volume constant

That is the precise context in which I ask the question. It doesn't run bad, and the table is pretty close, but do I gain much by having the constants correct? I have set the constants correctly, but then it is too lean. The VE table is maxed out 70 KPA and higher, so it does require fooling the computer somewhere. Which is better, tell the computer you have a bigger engine, or tell the computer the injectors are smaller than they are?

I'm trying to asses what impact fudging either the injector constant, or the engine size constant has on other parameters. Will fudging either one impact anything beyond giving me better range on the VE table? If so, what other effects does each have?
Daveinet is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2009, 07:24 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
pandin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: West Central Ohio
Posts: 1,091
Car: 86 vette
Engine: 383
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.07

Classifieds Rating: (0)
Re: Incressed injector constant and cylinder volume constant

Just my two cents, as soon as you install a different motor size, cam, intake, fuel, gears, ect... you are "lying to the computer". In fact any major change from "Factory original" is a "cheat". So by trying to keep some of the numbers "exact" it forces you to "fudge" other numbers.

Just remember they are all "just numbers" the computer (it is a calculator, that is all). One set of what I call "magic numbers" are as good as the rest. I try to keep the numbers with in a range that the computer works in (did you ever notice how many multipliers and scale factors there are in these programs). The only way this stuff even works is everything has to be close to the middle, of it's range, so you are not at the max or minimum any of the ranges (0-255) any time the values are over 255 or under 0 then something has to be "fudged" or nothing will work.

Nothing is perfect, so if the tune works, accept it for what it is and try to under stand, if what you see is a good "fix" or just a "fudge" for some underling "problem" that is not immediately apparent.

We use standardized parts so every time some part is changed, you don't have to "reinvent the wheel" to get back on the road.

A leaking injector could be one of these unnoticed problems, you can replace the injectors or retune the VE tables to "fix" but when the injectors are replaced, the tune will have to be "corrected" too.

Everything going into and out of the system, has a real world meaning, but that is only as seen through our eyes. The system doesn't have a clue.
pandin is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2009, 07:24 PM
ThirdGen
1992 Camaro




Paid Advertisement


Reply

Go Back   Third Generation F-Body Message Boards > Tech Boards > DIY PROM

Tags
475, body, constant, cylinder, cylinders, injector, injectors, made, motorhome, parts, revcon, transmission, volume
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 


1982 Camaro '82 || 1983 Camaro '83 || 1984 Camaro '84 || 1985 Camaro '85 || 1986 Camaro '86 || 1987 Camaro '87 || 1988 Camaro '88 || 1989 Camaro '89 || 1990 Camaro '90 || 1991 Camaro '91 || 1992 Camaro '92


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright © 1997 - 2012 ThirdGen.org. All rights reserved. No part of this website may be reproduced without the expressed, documented, and written consent of ThirdGen.org's Administrators.

Emails & Contact Details