Hi.. Been reading hearing about the problem to connect to the 1227165 ECM and have now exp it for myself... Started to tune my buddies new 383' engine and having some trouble to connect via ALDL. Tried diffrent cables, restarts and so on and after a while it connects....for a while then it looses the connecting again 10k resistor is in place. Tried both with the serie and usb port. So anyone have some hits/tips on how to connect and stay connected. /N.

I wish that I had the answer.... and feel your pain.
I seem to be able to connect but staying connected continuously seems to be a problem.
I think that the cable is the problem. As mine is the original from Moates APu1 Autoprom.
I've been thinking about getting a replacement for awhile now.....

Hope someone else can chime in....

Dont think its the cable, since I have a moates, a 2-trans and a max232 cable all have the same problem.

Will continue to tune tha car tomorrow if the weather allows it, will do some more testing.

/N.

So what is this 10k resistor I keep hearing about? I have tried to connect my ALDL cable so I can actually see whats going on and it NEVER works! I have all new parts from Moates so from statement above I don't think it's your cable. This software in my own opinion is NOT user friendly and everything that goes with it! Going from other software such as AEM, Hondata, K Pro, etc with everything built into the software to TunerPro just shows you get what you pay for. Or I am wrong and it's just because it's OBD1 old and must be this way.
I am pretty upset having $4,000 invested in just parts and not being able to get it tuned for my new daily driver.

Hi Niklas,

Long time no chat, hope all is well!

If you are able to establish communications with the 165 at 8192 with the 10k and then it locks up after a period of time (could be 15 seconds or 15 minutes), welcome to the joy of the 165. Shut the key off for 15 seconds and turn it back on. The data will begin to flow again.

Regardless of cable or software, this seems to be a persistent issue for the 165. Some units 'clam up' more frequently than others. If you have a spare 165, try it and you will likely find it behaves either better or worse. Is it a UART on the ECM itself that locks up or gets hot? We don't know. A bug in the GM code for the bimodal 160/8192 protocols? Perhaps. The 165 is the only ECU this has been seen on as far as I know.

You won't be able to initiate logging at 8192 on the 165 without the 10k resistance applied between pins A and B. Data should flow through pin M or E. Once communications are established, the 10k can be de-exerted. However, it will be needed again if communication is lost or ECM power is cycled (keyoff).

To recap, if your 165 clams up at 8192, turn the key off for a few seconds and back on. It should reset. No need to restart PC, hardware, software, etc. Just power cycle the key/ECU to kick it back off. Or try a spare ECU.

If you can NOT get datalogging started (not what we're talking about here), the most common issues I see folks having are related to (read as checklist):
- Driver installation and configuration
- ADS/X definition file selection
- Setting up the software (TPRT, WinALDL, TTSDatamaster) to match up with the USB Serial (or other) port # settings as well as HW mode (MAX232 or APU).
- Getting the switch positions (10k, passthrough, APU, etc) all correct and matching SW settings and ECU need.

If anyone knows anything different, I'm happy to learn of it.

-Craig

Here's another tidbit about the 8192 communications with the '165 (for those of you running $32B or $6E).

Executive summary: You might find that it takes a couple of connection attempts to get data flowing at 8192 baud.

Details: Even when you have everything properly in place regarding the 10K resistor and whatnot, connection can take a couple of attempts. This is because the '165 continuously streams data at 160 baud. In between 160 baud packets, the ECM listens at 8192 baud for around 50 milliseconds for a command to come in from the scanner (PC software in our case). If no command comes in, it returns to streaming data at 160 baud. If a command is detected at 8192 baud, the ECM responds to that message and ceases all communication at 160 baud.

With the properly created definition, TunerPro version 5 supports this connection scheme much better than version 4. With version 4, you may find tha tyou'll need to try connection a few times before successful data transfer is established. This could be exacerbated when running in AutoProm mode as well, since the AutoProm introduces a slight delay in the communication.

Dont blame the hardware or the software. I use Datamaster and Tunerpro, the ECM doesnt care. I communicates when it feels like it. Pisses you off when it doesnt.

Thanks Craig & Magnus!
I thought that I was doing something wrong or had faulty equipment. I don't doubt your info for a second....

When you think that our ECMs' are 20+ years old and in the very infancy of GM's computer controlled fuel injection it doesn't surprise me that it has quirks..... Let alone work as well as it does!!!

Thanks guys for giving us the opportunity to dive into this stuff in the first place!!!

Amen to that remembering ECM852/winbin and then GMECM edit.....
Tuning now is soo much easier now!

All well Craig! Been busy with alot of other stuff(house/kids) but car is starting to run really strong now



Thx for the info! Will test TP5 and see if it connects better and I now know why it always connect in 160baud and not in 8192.....

Last time I tuned the car it seemd like it would always connect if I uploaded a new bin to emulator ( with disable checksum ) but could also just be a coincidence......

could it be the program? I've noticed on '730s and '427s that you don't need to handle ECM reply checksums or worry about chatter. Its lazy and sloppy, but it does seem to work. I don't know how everyone else handles comms in their programs, but maybe thats the problem?

I've found a swift kick does the job for me when it stops communicating. It doesn't reconnect, but I feel better!

That's pretty funny!

Many times it seems that when I give a stern look toward a misbehaving bit, it straightens up. Other times, I've got to go so far as to raise my hand in a fist.

Cursing loudly seems to help as well. No substitute for the BFH, though.

sorry to jump in all of a sudden but does anybody has a driver for the connector i wanna use it via usb but i dont have communication between aldl and pc... pm please.

My 165' locks up after about 10 seconds with 8192 baud.
How is anyone tuning if they cant record data?

Playing with the 165 again tonight on a friends car. Nice running heads/cam L98 with Stealth ram.

One day I had a datalog of maybe 15 min before it disconnected on me and I couldnt reconnect.

Tonight it connected first try for 2 min and then shut off..... would not connect again for the next 2 hrs no matter what we did. Shut car off several times while we tuned, reburned the chips as necessary and I restarted tuner pro several times, restarted my computer 1 time.

Would not connect. BIG PITA when trying to tune WOT and dont know if its going to like the timing curve or not. Cant see what the MAF is doing, but I know its maxing out from last logs. Just would be nice to see it again here tonight.

Best thing I did was buy wideband o2 sensor and tune OPEN loop. However, even doing that you need to see the MAF grams/sec for idle and part throttle, or else you are tuning blind and just guessing. After that, for WOT tuning, I just used PE mode enrichment vs RPM. Change that and watch air fuel gauge. Fairly easy to do.

Larety, with Datamaster, Ive been switching COM ports. Yesterday it hooked up fine and ran 5 minutes before it quit. I turned off the car, switched the COM port to 3 and then back to 5. Restarted and logged another 10 minutes or so till I was done. Last few logs, playing with Com ports seem to get it going.

Here is my experience with this. Just got TP RT ver 5 going, on newer (but still old) laptop with XP on it. Tried two datalogs, (road tests), and it stopped com just under 5 minutes into the record. It does seem to connect up ok at 8192 baud, shortly after I attempt it. I do recall the same problem with TP ver 4.xx. Actually I havent done alot of logging with TP, beleive it or not. Since it wasn't working reliably, I went back to my old scan tool from EASE Diagnostics. It is a commerical tool for GM OBDI. I have it since 1999. Can scan any GM from 82-95. It connects up fine, records and logs data. I use it for all my part throttle tuning. Now there is no adjustabilitiy with EASE, so you get what you get. But it does have a nice averaging feature when looking at recordings, to see what the BLM/INT comes out.
I would actually prefer to use TP, since you get LOTs of adjustibility, and the big plus is having my LM1 WB AFR readings right there to gaze out. So I try to use that more for WOT tuning. So I am not giving up on TP RT at all, just dealing with it. Now I know others having same problem. But you can't just turn the key off/on, wait a few secs, then scan when you are cruising on down the highway at 65........

I appreciate your expressed loyalty, but as mentioned, this is not a software problem. This is a 1227165 problem. My car runs a 1227165, and I've been through numerous ECMs and have helped at least two local people with precisely the same problem. It's the ECM.

Most likely switching off the car (and then back on again) is what got it going.

Did it again today. Switched COM port to 3 and back to 5. Never even turned the car off. This is Datamaster not Tunerpro. Tunerpro RT is great but I was using Datamaster for quite a while before you released Tunerpro so I still use it. Also using a real old AKM cable with a Belkin USB - Serial adapter.

Well thanks, I beleive you on the ECM. Computers arent perfect. I am not giving up on TP RT. Just gotta hope for the best, that it connects and stays connected long enough to get some good data. It doesnt take that long to get some good WOT data logged.

Since I really started delving into tuning my '165-based setup, I see the same issue everyone else does...datalogging freezes at some point (2 minutes to a half hour after starting) and the only way to reconnect is to key off for quite a few seconds, then back on, and it will then connect.

I'm not holding out hope, but this is an "original" '165. I've got a GM replacement ECM that is a different part number, and it has at least some different components on it's board. I'll be swapping it out just to see if it makes any difference.

I have the same problem however mine will NEVER connect! I have had Craig from Moates on the phone with him controling my own laptop and he can't even get it to connect. All settings are correct, and I have tried a second 165 computer from a friends car that runs fine and it also does not connect in my car. The friends car is stock and he has no software he is trying to tune but the computer is fine, and I may add that my car ran perfect with the factory 305 engine. Anybody have any ideas?

Craig has likely already run through it with you, and I'm betting he mentioned that you should check the connections between the ALDL connector and the ECM.

Otherwise, suspect your interface and your PC. Try a handheld scanner to see if it will hook up. That will verify that the connections are OK. Try a different PC. That will verify that the PC is OK. Last, try a different interface cable.

Guys,i have the 165 and TP4
ALDL TO USB Moates cable

Its a PITA to connect but i found that the only way that works for me is that
i have to reconfigure ports everytime i need to datalog.
On windows xp driver device and tuner pro itself.
For example i choose Cable and port, and test for a working cable,if it works
i plug it into the ALDL port at my car.
Then turn the key and launch tuner pro and hit connect.
And suddenly its there,but i have to asign the ports everytime i need to datalog.