liquidh8

Hello all. Hope to soon be diving in to getting the EBL SFI-6 for my turbo Buick Station Wagon. I have the EBL Classic, so I am familiar with the EBL. But this thread will be more for the SFI-6 specific installation, features, and discussion. I hope to hash some of these questions out as I tear the car down for chassis mods, and I can add/remove/modify the wiring harness.

So, here are a few:

• IAT - Is the IAT actually used for the tune, like in the TBI EBL? The factory Buick ECM doesn't use the IAT in the tune to modify anything. I have already added an IAT to the lower plenum.

• Oil Temp Sensor - Which oil temp sensor would get used for this? Is it an aftermarket deal? GM? Is there a part number? Seems like a cool feature for a turbo car.

• Dial-a-timing - Does this affect timing in a certain are? Like gear, RPM, etc. Or is it an overall timing change? Seems like another cool feature.

• VSS - I have an Autometer Speedo, and I bought the VSS for the Autometer speedo. Would this work with the EBL and keep the cruise control?

• Wastegate Control - I see on the sight it is not available yet. Is it still planned to be completed?

• Fan Control - Which fan control scheme is factory? Which one would be better?

Ok, so here is a list of a few questions for discussion and clarity. I already have to add the wiring for Alky, n2o and a 2nd fuel pump.

I have the wiring for the WB, shift light, fuel pressure, already done.

I would like to add the Dial-a-timing, maybe the oil temp, and maybe change the fan set-up if another route is beneficial. I do have a 2 speed Mark VII or VIII (can't remember) fan that I may use instead of the stock fan (if necessary for cooling).

Thank you RBob and anyone who has run this yet.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Not perfectly formatted, but close enough...

RBob.

liquidh8

Awesome! Thanks for the reply.

Looks like the dial-a-timing is a go, 2.81d +/- can be a lot in certain situations. Though I will have a carpc with a touchscreen for quick tune changes. (already built and fitted in the console). Is 500 ohm the 0d mark, with 0 ohm - 2.81d, and 1kohm +2.81d?. I may need to make a detent of sorts for the POT to keep it at 500ohm.

I will look around in the garage for a CTS to use for the oil temp. Just logging it is good with me. I may have to weld a bung in the oil pan though as I can 't see any other reasonable place to put it.

The VSS I will have to work out. I have a factory VSS from the speedo, modified into a stand alone box. Worked great for the EBL classic, I may have to just run with that.

Wastegate control, I will look at the schematic some more and just add whatever wires are needed for future expansion.

Good deal on the fan, all three ways, it can get kicked into high speed if needed. I like it.

Different question. Do you know of a place to get factory style wire so I can run these leads? I may just hit the junkyard and cut a huge piece of factory harness out of a truck and use it. But new is always nice.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Yes, center position on the pot is no change in SA.

Some remote filter mounts have 4 locations for hose connections. If set up with one in hose, the other in hose location can be used for the temperature sensor. Then use the two outs, one for the engine and the other for the turbo.

When I go to the JY I look for trucks where the engine was removed (cut out). They leave 12" - 18" of harness and the connectors. If you have a crimp tool we carry the terminals.

RBob.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Currently in the market for a Grand National myself, I might be buying a stock '86 very soon, but I still need to take a ride down to South Jersey to have a look at it first. Running the SFI-6 will be the very first modification that the vehicle gets. Looks like a few of us on this board are already getting the jump on the SFI-6, and hopefully others will follow. I'd like to see the 3.1 Turbo guys, even the 3.1 naturally aspirated crowd over in the V6 section jump aboard. Lots of them are upgrading to 3500 swaps as well as various hybrid combinations. That being said, maybe someone can delve into how hard/easy of a swap it would be for say the 2.8 MAF cars, as well as the 3.1 SD and V6 hybrid cars to swap over to the SFI-6...

liquidh8

RBob,
Thanks for the quick replies! I do have a crimper for the pins. But to be honest, I usually solder everything. A habit from working on fighter jets, lol.

The TB has the oil cooler in the radiator, I have to look close and see if the is a way to put it in there, something similar to what you said. I don't "need" it, but with a turbo car it would be nice to log it. I will be going the JY route to get some lengths of wire. There are plenty of cars/trucks with no engines in there.

Street Lethal,
I am planning on taking a but ton of pictures and even some video if I can when I do the change over. So I can post it here and the TB boards. Allot of TB guys don't seen to get into the tuning of it.

Other v6 owners and tuners here would definitely benefit from it.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The main issue is a cam sensor. Plus running a few more injector wires for the sequential injection. If someone were to use a 3.4l block there is a cam sensor built in.

RBob.

liquidh8

Ohh yeah, that is a biggie I over looked when I read it.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

... any way to gut a later distributor w/cam sensor built in and transfer it over?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Could be done, but I don't know of any. GM appeared to go DIS with these engines.

RBob.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

The late 80's 4.5 LW2 (mpfi version) and early 90's 4.9 L26 engines found in the Cadillac lineup used a distributor with the cam sensor located on top of the distributor shaft under the cap and rotor just before they switched over to the Northstar engines. Next time I'm out in the junkyard I'll look around for some Cadillac Deville's...

liquidh8

I'm sure if you can find something from one of those caddy engines, or even using the top of the 3.8 can sensor, one could TIG weld the sensor cap mount, and modify the shaft for the reluctor ring to fit. It is not unheard of for something like that ya know? Just a pain in the but.

liquidh8

Well, my SFI-6 should be waiting for me when I get home. woohoo! I will take lots of pictures, and will have some build thread in the g-body forum, turbobuick forum, and post it here somewhere, I want it to get exposure. I ordered a fan relay and pigtail for the ALKY, just to get it wired in. I have to order the 3 bar map.

I will do the ECM modifications first, then when I yank the engine and body to get the fram sandblasted, i will redo the wiring harness for the EBL and all the extras.

liquidh8

The EBL arrived Safe and sound! I ordered the Chrysler fan relay and pig tail for the Alky set-up. I now have to order the 3 bar MAP and plug kit. So cold here in PA, I am not gonna get on the actual rewire for another month.

liquidh8

Weather is getting nicer.

RBob, since I will be using the SFI-6 to control the ALKY pump, is there any particular ones you recommend? I looked at the Razors, it draws up to 13 amps. Not sure what the current capability of the Chrysler fan relay is?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Don't fans draw up to 30 amps or so? One item to go by is the size of the wire for a fan, and the size of the wire for the alky pump. It is best (recommended) to mount the relay on a flat piece of sheet metal. Chrysler did it this way as a heat sink.

I have a Razors alky kit.

RBob.

liquidh8

RBob, you are right. I just wanted to be sure that when I bought one of the pumps, that all was going to be good. I will be sure to mount the Chrysler relay on a nice heatsink/metal surface. I have some heat sink material laying around, I could fab something up ahead of the core support for it to stay cool

I was looking at the Razors pump, since it is claimed to have all sorts of upgrades so it lasts with methanol.

Jim

liquidh8

I have my body off the frame, and started pulling the dash back out. I will be working on an extensive rewire/add circuit job in the coming week.

liquidh8

I ended up redoing the frame and suspension, boxing, notching, etc. Didn't get to the wiring yet. But I have a question.

I am looking into getting another wastegate solenoid and running dual solenoids, is the boost control function in the SFI-6 working?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

I'm not sure that the ECM can drive two solenoids. May need an external driver for this.

The boost control code is being tested by several folks, it isn't in the present firmware release. It is an easy upgrade to the ECM, so when the time comes I can send you the upgrade program.

My set up is quite a bit different then other setups, which again are different from others. So not sure how well it will work on different setups. This is what we are trying to find out.

RBob.

liquidh8

Ok, I was just reading on the TB board about guys running dual solenoids to help control higher than stock boost levels.

When I get the wiring done here after the body is back on the chassis, I would love to run this code.

Ok then. I'll just have to get the system installed and running and take it from there I suppose.

Thanks again

Jim

liquidh8

Body is back on the finished chassis. I have the harness all layed out and removed from the car. I can FINALLY start the huge task of rewiring the whole car. I'll have pictures and maybe some youtube video of it. I'll start posting questions and answers here as I can get started.

I placed a few orders from Caspers (new TPS and WG noid plugs), Mouser (new Metri-pack male and female connecters for the bulkhead, and pac con for the LT1 relay panel) and Ballenger (3 BAR MAP and plugs for 3 bar and 1 bar).

I'll be moving all the relays and ECM related fuses to the new relay panel. The Fan, fuel pumps, A/C, N2O, will get relays and fuses in the under hood fuse/relay panel. I'll add a few things to the C100 bulkhead to keep the install factory looking.

liquidh8

OK, so I am pretty much done making my new schematic for the car, minus the as installed changes.
I will have 8 relays in the system:

• fuel pump1
• fuel pump 2
• fan high
• fan low
• n2o
• a/c cut out
• injectors
• ignition module

Some of these relays are engaged with key on/run like stock, but a few are ground controlled through the EBL SFI-6. So, the question is, do I need to add diodes to these relays in some way for ECM protection? I could take the tops of the relay and look to see if there is something there already. The wiring scheme I have for the fans, fuel pumps, a/c and n2o are right from the SFI-6 wiring diagram.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

There should be diodes in the ECM controlled relays. Which also makes the coils polarity sensitive. Be sure to include wiring for a CnP set up.

I'm not sure that I'd run unsealed relays under the hood. Asking for trouble. If the relay has a pin diagram on it, look to see if one of the coil terminals has a plus sign.

RBob.

liquidh8

Re-pinning the ECM plugs right now.

RBob, I have a stock relay/fuse panel from a 4th gen f-body. So, I am using the plug in relays in that set-up like stock. I'll look on the relays for the plus sign, If not, I guess I could add diode to the wiring on the bottom of the relay center. would any old diode do from the rat shack? I have a drawer full of different diodes, the part numbers elude me right now.

As for the CnP, could you supply me with the technical information for that mod? I never got it from you.

Thanks again!

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The diodes are typically the 1N4001 through 1N4007 series.

CnP: sent you a PM.

RBob.

liquidh8

OK, I have a drawer full of them, 4001 thru 4007. The wiring in this car is all jacked up, taking me some some to repair all the hacks from the previous owner.

I am using the stock c100 connetor for all my new pass throughs, like the fuel pressure gauge and alky low light and such. The functions coming from the EBL, n20 and alky arm, etc, are going through the stock c347 connector to the dash. This will look factory and clean.

I had to go back to the junkyard yesterday to get more wire with the wire colors I wanted,lol.

liquidh8

I have a few hella and gm relays, they have a resistor in parallel to the coil instead of a diode, with this be sufficient you think? I pulled them right from a 2000's GM in the junkyard.

I can run a diode anyway if it is a better idea.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

If these relays were ECM controlled then the resistor is most likely OK. I've seen this is some of the wiring diagrams and wondered if the guy that did the diagrams showed a resistor instead of a diode. Guess not.

RBob.

liquidh8

Copy that. My biggest fear is having he spike from the relay closing damaging the EBL.

liquidh8

RBob, I see in the EBL wiring that you have the n2o solenoids with power all the time, and the grounds are controlled through the relay. Is this better that having the power relay controlled? Just curious as some the the nitrous wiring diagrams I see have the power relay controlled. I don't remeber how I wired the EBL (classic) on my 350.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

They are to an ignition switched +12 volt source. As for the actual wiring, it can be done either way. The control relay can switch power or switch ground for the solenoids.

RBob.

liquidh8

I had already set it up to switch power, I'll let if fly like that. Thank you.

ownor

iTrader: (5)

very interesting thread, subscribed was looking at a 79 Turbo Coupe on Saturday for a future project prospect ^^ we'll see..

the fan's gotta be from a Mark VIII. i used to drive a '92 Mk7 LSC with the 302HO and surprisingly, to me anyways, it had a mech. fan..

liquidh8

Most likely, For now I will run with the stock fan since it seemed to work fine. I have a radiator from ALRADCO, so I'll see how the cooling is in the summer. I may eventually run the intrepid fans.

liquidh8

Well, bumping this up. As some may know from the TB boards, I have the system installed, and running

I had a few small hiccups after the initial start up, but, I have that sorted out.

I won't get the car road worthy for another 6-8 weeks, since it is going for paint, then I have to go over it and do weather-stripping, check for loose bolts, etc. But, the start-up and idle seem to be pretty good for the current weather anyhow.

Here are a few videos. I have a build thread of this car on another forum, since this is an f-body forum.



Don't think we can embed videos?

ownor

iTrader: (5)

looks like we can embed videos?
first video... from what i can tell, OL operation seems pretty good. there's some difference between the fuel pressure gauge and the fuel pressure transducer displayed here tho? also the latter one is varying quite a bit as you stated. not sure if that would be something to worry about or not.
i have no idea why CL seems that lean from the WB reading.. if we can trust the NBO2 (warmed up? location?), it's about 550mV which would be a little tad rich, which is also mirrored in BLMs as you stated. where have you put your WBO2 here?
second video, CL seems pretty stable no?
that said.. you built one of my dream projects enjoy!
oh and btw you're using the Bob's Coil-on-Plug setup also there, right? neat..

liquidh8

That was after the first start up, and after messing with it a bit, I decided to replace the nbo2 with a new one, since I can't remember when and where I got the original. The fp transducer is a different story, the WUD seem to display a 1lb or so lower than the gauge. I messed with the filters and all. the wiring is all new and I ohm checked the entire harness. hmmm.

This video was right after replacing the nb02. I fired it up then started taking video. It went from CL to OL and didn't skip a beat. So, the nb02 was old and flakey on me.

Yes, I am using Bobs CnP, I have the TYPE II ignition with quick start. It is a nice set-up for sure.

liquidh8

Just wanted to check in. Haven't got the car on the road yet, but I will be soon. I upgraded my intercooler, and I am adding a blow-off valve.

Hope to be cruising/tuning it during spring.

I did get my Dell Windows 10 tablet working with the EBL, I haven't tried tuner- pro though.

RBob, I may have asked this in the past, but is there a way to change the filter or something for the WB display?

I have a BN innovate WB gauge and sensor, and the EBL seems to be .2-.3 AFR high/leaner that the gauge reads.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Create a User Device and offset the voltage versus AFR. Be sure to select that device for the WB ADC channel.

RBob.

liquidh8

Awesome, thanks for the quick response sir! I will give that shot!

I wonder if it's just the tablet? I don't think the laptop I was using had a problem.

juan89

How do I turn on valet mode and what does it do ?

Juan

liquidh8

Hello all, finally got the car mechanically together, in paint, and ready for some road tests. Going to try and take the maiden voyage tomorrow, then start tuning.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Set this flag to enable valet mode:

Option Word 3 - Bit 5 - ValOp

When the ECM is in valet mode the tuner can set up the tune to reduce power and set lower RPM and MPH fuel cut limits.

RBob.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

RBob.

ownor

iTrader: (5)

Nice, I'm in for an update

liquidh8

Wow, I first posted this thread 4 years ago, time flies for sure.

I got the car out on the road, and it runs good! As a recap, its a stock long block, new valve springs and seals, stock ported turbo, ported intake, doghouse, TB, and gasket matched to heads. 3" custom SS DP and dual 3" exhaust with SLP loudmouths. I have a Precision slic, 3" up pipe. Will be using n2o, and Alky. Both controlled by the EBL. I also have Dynamicefi's cNp ignition. 50lb MSD injectors, dual in tank fuel pumps (one installed now) with 1/2" SS feed line, and 3/8" SS return.

With that being said, I adjusted the injector size and offset for the MSD's, and played with the idle VE and low speed AE. This I did a while ago so I can start it and move it around the shop. No other changes at first.

I took it for a a bunch of short rides, and had the WG set at 10 lbs. It pulled great, AFR was 9.9-10.2, rich, but I had a few KR at 2400 RPM and 140KPA. So I hit the timing table and pulled some out. Did a few BLM and WB VE learns and all the cruise areas seem great. Idles great and cruises along with no surge. Made small changes and I am on the 27th bin.

Now, at WOT the AFR get really rich. The supplied EBL bin had the commanded AFR at 11.5 I think, I changed it to 10.8, but the fueling still keeps getting richer at WOT. What table(s) affects this?

Also, how does the SA offsets work in this bin? I an running 93 for now, with 18 lbs. Looking to creep up to 20 degrees or so, which seems to be the thing for the stock blocks and turbos using a TT chip. Reviewing the datalog it appears I am at 14-16 or so. ( i know, give it what it wants)

Sorry for the long winded post, but after putting 80 miles on it man it ran great! Just some learning and fine tuning. I'll add the ALKY after I dial in the tune, then the n2o.

Finally, I added the Dial-A-Time, I checked the D-A-T flag, is there anything else I need to do? Not sure if it is working or not. I have the idle SA flag checked, so when I move the **** a idle, I don't see a change on the WUD. And does the n20 light on the WUD illuminate when armed, or when active?

thanks guys!

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Get the VE table in shape first, as once in boost the 100 KPa column is used. Then the resulting injector PW is modified via the BST - PW multiplier table. This table can add or subtract fuel. With a turbo it is usually used to add some fuel. Recall that as boost increases the fuel increases with it as the MAP value is used in the PW calculation.

This is a rather open question as there are several SA modifiers available for use. I use the PE reduction SA for 3rd and 4th. Along with the SA reduction versus MPH table.

Just need to wire in the pot and set the flag. DAT will affect idle SA even with the idle state flag set. Can change the SA +-2.8°.

When active.

RBob.

liquidh8

Thank you, I'll continue messing with the VE table to dial it in. Then I'll take it from there.<br /><br />The SA table question wasn't meant to be open ended, lol. But, does the 3rd-4th table only affect 3rd and 4th like named? IOW, does the 3rd setting work for 1 and 2 also? I don't want to have a huge timing difference between gears. <br /><br />​​​​​​Thank you on the DAT, I may have to double check my wiring since I'm not sure it is working. I move the **** and the wud SA display doesn't change.<br /><br />Got it on the n2o!<br /><br />Thanks again!

RBob

iTrader: (1)

I said open ended as there are many SA modifiers available to use. The 3rd-4th table only affects 3rd and 4th gear. One of the nice things about the '89 TTA 200-4R is that it has both the 3rd and 4th gear switches. So 1 & 2 use the base spark timing, with separate retard values for when in 3rd and when in 4th.

I'm using a 2.1° retard in 3rd, and a 3.9° retard in 4th.

RBob.