GTA Sammy

iTrader: (1)

I've been reading prom threads for a long time now and I must be missing something...!
I'm using TunerPro RT with an APU1 Autoprom 165 6e, And wideband O2 LC-1
I've used my original APYU BIN, an ARAP BIN as well as uploading my ADS Superchip as starting points.

I've increased my MAF 1 scalar
Adjusted my injectors to 32lbs
Increased MAF Table to get the car to idle well and drive resonably in the low throttle positions (under 2000rpm), but it'll run lean with more throttle input 17-20 AF ratio and run pig rich at a red light 11-10 to the point where it'll stall...

I've increased my AE/PE and it doesn't seem to make a difference in the transition from cruising to acceleration.
Then on the opposite side, how do I idle well parked... And run so rich at a red light surging like a ret*rd!!!???

I just built this engine and wanna start enjoying it with the wife and kids

The dyno shops around here are no help!!!
They're like "We don't touch OBD1's"
And I'm like "I don't want you to tune it... Just be a consultant! It's gotta be like EFI Live etc!!! I'll push the buttons!!!

Any insight guys?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Keep it simple and work in steps.
Log what the maf g/s are doing at idle and watch wideband o2. Say its idling 9 g/s and its rich. Go to table 1 maf and see where 9 is in that table. Adjust that voltage cell from 9 to something lower. Also try locking timing around the lv8 values you idle at. That should keeep rpms from jumping to much.
Once idling smooth and good air fuel, start playing with part throttle. Again watch wideband and maf grams/sec. Got to see where its lean or rich and go into the tables 2-4 maf to do part throttle. Dont get into AE yet just use slow throttle transistion to avoid ae conditions. Ae can mask a lean maf spot so work maf first.
Dont adjust scalars unless you run out of adjustment range within the table.

Dont go wot yet til everything is ok driving wise. You'll have to work your way into throttle 50%, 75%, then full. Watch the wideband and try to find where (rpm wise) maf pegs. You should hit that 255 limit around 4000 rpm. Maybe sooner.

Also up your max airflow vs rpm tables. Its a maf g/s flow vs rpm table and lower rpms should have values increases because that motor consumes so much more than stock

GTA Sammy

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Orr for chiming in,

I've been trying to do things slow and methodically, but I'm often confused about what the car is doing...
Like idling well with good fuel on the driveway and going super lean while coasting and super rich at a stop light. All 3 should be running off the same tables right?

Regardless,
I'll smooth out the timing in the lower table.
Reset my MAF #1 Scalar
Slowly lean into the throttle and adjust the MAF Tables accordingly.

Couple Quick questions though...
1) How quick is the resolution of these ECM's
It seems to take a while to notice the changes I make while emulating.

2) How concerned should I be about AF ratios of 19-20 while coasting (no load)

Thanks again for any and all help!!!

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Lean coast is fine and normal. Thats decel enleanment mode. Saves fuel and cools motor by pumpin air thru chambers with little combustion heat. All good

At stop light in gear, what converter is in it? Whats idle rpm? Sounds like its loading up the motor so its at a new lv8 value and may be changing the maf flow requirement. More load needs more fuel but sounds like theres to much there.

Is closed loop enabled? Try disabling that for now and tune open loop off the wideband first.

Arap maf tables seem to work well but also depends on the general open loop fuel tables as arap is different than other 6e's. start with only arap bin as base or only something else like a AUJL or similar.

GTA Sammy

iTrader: (1)

Stock converter
650-700 RPM idle once warm but surging with ARAP
I thought that the Timing was too aggressive but I've run 94 octane since starting the new 383 and no knock retard.
Another thing about ARAP is that my ALDL doesnt like it... keeps locking up!
So Ive tried to use another bin like my APYU and convert the values into ARAP... the car didn't like that.
I'll start from a new Bin again...

I'll disable closed loop and see what I can do. (Increase the Closed Loop Enable Temp to 304*F)

Thanks again for your insight and help.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Yes by all means lower arap timing with afr eliminators. I found 34-36 deg cruise areas and 32-34 wot areas seem to work great. Idle with bigger cam mid 20's

That combo would like a connverter to take load off motor in gear at a stop. But i have run bigger cams on stock converters no problem with arap so keep playing.

Aujl is good to. $6e also is known to be a pita to datalog.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

You didn't list it, but I am guessing you have headers with NBO2 in the collector.
Disable closed loop and tune fuel using stock bin, then do spark, then fuel, etc.
Reset the idle RPM and IAC.

If you want closed loop, install a heated NBO2 or install a WBO2 with simulated NBO2 output wired into the ECM. I think 14point7.com has a WBO2 kit for $95 with the WBO2 sensor included.

You could also run the $12 code which is speed density for the 165 ECM. Replace MAF with MAP.

GTA Sammy

iTrader: (1)

I do have longtube headers with a wideband O2 and a simulated nbO2 connected to the ECM.
I never connected the WB to the ECM for data logging though...
I think that it would make reviewing the log easier.

At this point my wife and neighbors are getting tired of the GTA running in the garage, driveway and around the area while I get my fuel figured out, so I'll leave it alone for a day or two I think.

Did I mention it's loud...

Keoman

iTrader: (3)

From all the posts I have read, having long tube headers with a 1 wire NB o2 sensor will give you false readings and you need to install a 3 wire heated o2 sensor. Its easy to install but it is supposed to make a big difference with longtubes.

This is assuming you have the NB hooked up under the car in the longtube collector.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...re-heated.html

GTA Sammy

iTrader: (1)

Well, I was out making noise for a couple of hours this evening, and I'm happpy with the way things are going.

I used my original "1989 5.7 Auto" APYU3516 Bin (For some reason the car just likes it & the ALDL doesnt lock up *As often*)

Disabled Closed loop.

Started with MAF table 1 > While watching my WideBand I Increased my Grams/Sec values and things were good, but by the time I was @ 1.10 volts I had increased to Grams/sec to 70 and was still lean

So, I figured that after looking to see where the MAF table 2 starts (23gr/sec @ 1.46 volts) that it was time to increase MAF Table Scalar #1... From an original of 18 upto 22... one point at a time

With each increase in Scalar I had to adjust all over again... but that's the process aint it?

The weird thing was, after all that I had a fat spot at around .80volts while cruising (Low LV8) I guess it could be my timing at that particular RPM and LV8 (I'll have to pay more attention)

Keeping it simple of course, Is there anything else I should be doing at this point in the game? Or just keep tuning in Open Loop until I reach MAF Table 5-6?
Seems like pretty spirited driving up there...

Thanks again for the help guys!

GTA Sammy

iTrader: (1)

I was going through my subscriptions and found this gem...
goes a little off halfway down but the bones are are good...

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...good-tune.html

Constantly reading, learning and re-learning...

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I'd dial in as many sections of the maf tables you can. Then enable closed loop if you want to

GTA Sammy

iTrader: (1)

Car has a dead short in it all of a sudden...
Car won't start, battery goes to discharged, even my radio clock goes to 1:00
Haven't been able to start it since late last week....grrrr