dfarr67

iTrader: (2)

Any info on these regarding compenstions with EBL?

34.5 @ 43.5psi

dfarr67

iTrader: (2)

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...6lb-0280155737

Just to close this one off in case others run across the same question. I have confirmed from a couple of different sources that all three part numbers - 0280155868, 0280155811, & 0280155737 are all the same injector. The reason for the different p/n's was actually different material and color of the o-rings (o-ring size is still the same across all 3).

'm curious for those of you that are using these injectors what your final high/low slope and breakpoint has turned out to be. I've played around a lot and it seems that I've settled on High Slope = 36.5008 and Low Slope = 47.2504 (lbs/hr) with a breakpoint of 3.65 x 10e-5 lb/rev. Because the spec sheet is in mass vs. rev, my understanding is that you need to multiple the spec sheet breakpoint x 4 and move the decimal places. I think this came from a decipha post.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The data sheets of the LU34 and 280-255-868 injectors is the same. With that said here is the data:

Injector Data Sheet: 280-155-868 : LU34, 34 #/hr Skinny

Fuel Pressure: 44
Flow rate: 35.5 #/hr

Minimum PW @ 44 psi: 729 usec

Offset Compensation versus Battery Voltage:
6.4 Volts: 3105 usec
8.0 Volts: 2046 usec
9.6 Volts: 1521 usec
11.2 Volts: 1204 usec
12.8 Volts: 970 usec
14.4 Volts: 785 usec
15.0 Volts: 752 usec *extrapolate to 16 V

Just zero this table:
Short PW Compensation versus Pulse Width:
0.015 msec: -192 usec
0.244 msec: -152 usec
0.488 msec: -109 usec
0.732 msec: -67 usec
0.976 msec: -24 usec
1.220 msec: 0 usec
1.460 msec: 0 usec
1.708 msec: 0 usec
1.950 msec: 0 usec
2.197 msec: 0 usec
2.440 msec: 0 usec
2.685 msec: 0 usec
2.929 msec: 0 usec
3.170 msec: 0 usec
3.410 msec: 0 usec
3.660 msec: 0 usec
3.900 msec: 0 usec

RBob.

dfarr67

iTrader: (2)

Thank You, anywhere you are aware of that this data is tabulated?
1/ helps when the right part is used ie 0280155737
2/ pita to find data- seems most sites do not agree to basic spec

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Most if not all of the data comes from Ford Motorsport. It is on their web site for the injectors that they sell. Part of the issue is that they list it with their part number, hence titles such as M-9593-AA302, M-9593-LU34, and so on.

Apparently some have crossed these to Bosch part numbers and re-titled the data sheets.

Note that in my post I changed the Minimum PW for use at 44 psi, it was listed for the 39.15 psi.

RBob.

antman89iroc

In regard to the first statement about the part numbers I have found the same thing regarding the flow rates.

In regard to the second paragraph about the slope- well it's way above my pay grade. I'm so old school I have a difficult time with some of this.
Sooo, my tuning is based on SOTP and things like what SA/AFR nets the lowest TP/highest vacuum at cruise, mid throttle etc.
FWIW My base bin is the APYP 'Vette manual trans bin and I'm currently running in open loop. I used the offsets Bob supplied and my tune was very rich. I have tried a couple of different routes so far.

First, I leaned it out with the MAF tables. The problem I was having was it would be great at most points but off in others. (may be unique to MAF)
Second, I lowered the batt offset in the same "proportion" as Bob's slope while leaving the MAF tables alone (except for a little tweek at idle). It seems to be "closer" to the "target" AFR commanded by the ECM.

This is where I ended up.
IC = 34.5
IO vs low PW = 0
IO vs Batt
11.2 = 823.97
12.8 = 732.42
14.4 = 671.39

I haven't gone outside those voltages yet since they aren't normally encountered. I'm sure I will at some point.

I only offer this to let you know what I have done and seems to be working. However, refer to statement #2 in that I may not be understanding something properly. It seems the Bosch injectors are a bit more "stable" in the lower pulse widths in that the slope is flatter than the OEM injectors. Am I making a mistake by going this route or am I on to something? My rational is that if the actual AFR is closer to the "target" AFR it will help if I want to transition back into closed loop sometime.

dfarr67

iTrader: (2)

Those conversations were cut and pasted off of some tuning websites.

These injectors were OEM on some applications.

Does the 44psi warrant change from 43.5? Also the flow rate is stated as 35.5pph------34.5pph?

dfarr67

iTrader: (2)

How does this look?

antman89iroc

OEM lol You are correct, they were OEM on something! I should have said the Rochester Multitec injectors that came stock on my car (and presumably the Corvette from which the bin I use originated)

I can't say regarding the 1/2PSI fuel pressure change, I think it would be very small and may not be warranted.

Now in regard to the ACTUAL flow rate at the pressure used I have also found conflicting information. Bosch shows 34.5pph @ 43.5PSI. I have seen 35.5 and you probably know they are commonly referred to as 36's. I use 34.5 currently in my bin but have used 35.5 as well. Since it can be used as a tuning aid I suppose it is up to the tuner. One would have to flow the set in question to know what is absolutly true.

Here in lies one of my delimas. What is true and correct? Since all of these settings can be used to tune it is difficult for me to know what is best. I try to rely on what works 99% of the time. But I am not an expert and rely heavily on Bob and many others for "tips". I can tell you that changing the batt offsets had a more profound effect on rich/lean than changing the IC by 1lb.

I will digest the charts you posted later.

antman89iroc

I am reconsidering some of what I posted regarding offsets.

I looked closely at the charts posted and just read this "letter" regarding offsets.

http://injectordynamics.com/articles...racterization/

I suppose what I am doing is questioning Bob's information. (Sorry Bob) the injector offsets "are what they are" as a part of their operational characteristic and probably shouldn't be changed. Yes Bob, you told me that but I guess I had to learn for myself. Dang it! My car is running soooo good with my wrong offsets lol. In my defence I did admit that I didn't fully understand this. At least I was right about that!

antman89iroc

At what pressure were these offesets calculated?

dfarr67

iTrader: (2)

I'm really the wrong guy to ask- I just want to get this this running good enough not to detonate so I get it to a tuner to finish off.
But the original info is from Ford clearly stating 39 psi with Rbob adjusting to 44 psi.

antman89iroc

I'm kind of going back and forth on whether to change the batt offsets or not. (I even modified my previous statement) On one hand the offsets should be set for the injector in use. Makes sense because the offsets are required by built in characteristics of the injector. However, I still am having more success using offsets lower than the calculated ones above. Not sure why. It seems that every way I approch this using the supplied offsets (eg maf tables/OL AFR tables etc) I still encounter a very rich condition at low load/high vacuum. I am going to see if there is something else in play that I have been missing. Such as a fuel pressure regulator not lowering the pressure enough during high vacuum conditions. But with the low-er batt offsets I am very close to getting the Wide band AFR to match the Target AFR. When I change the OL AFR vs LV8 it resopnds appropriatly. Not exact, but closer than I can get with high offsets. It just dumps too much fuel at the low end. What am I missing here?

dfarr67

iTrader: (2)

I invested in a Honeywell fuel pressure transducer- Rbob insists they are worth it and I would have to bow to his experiance.

The_Punisher454

Are they better than the fuel pressure/temp sensor found on many ford fuel rails? I'm getting ready to add one to my big block project and another one to my injector flow bench when I rebuild it this winter.

antman89iroc

Yes and is it for monitoring or does it also regulate? PN?

A search returned a plethora of options.

dfarr67

iTrader: (2)

Honeywell MLH100PGB06A
Rbob says its more reliable than Autometer (which I also have on another vehicle. Not cheap for any, Holley also offers a version. Lots of cheap ones out there- I picked it for industrial grade instrumentation.
Logs pressure only.
Several OE applications out there- you need a 0-5v reference.