ElectronicsNeed help wiring something up? Thinking of adding an electrical component to your car? Need help troubleshooting that wiring glitch?
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I know I asked this before, but I've had problems w/ my net and haven't been on in a while. -
The question is who makes the HID headlight conversions for my '89 GTA, and where do I get them? I've noticed a couple of you who listed having them, and would like to switch my car over. - thanks for any help
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__________________ Jp Shawgo
1986 camaro - 10.5 outlaw/Outlaw 632
1989 lead sled still awating its transformation
- If you can't afford to do it right the first time, can you afford to do it again?
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thirdgen firebirds use a single bulb for each headlight. you will only have low beam headlights if you retrofit an hid kit, will not have functional highbeams anymore. camaro owners use a four headlight system and have seperate bulbs for high and low beams, so they will not have this problem.
I'm interested in doing this conversion as well so I brought this post back from the dead (thanks Search button!!). I've done a little bit of research on the true H.I.D. conversion (like the one 2vmodular posted) versus the H4 'look-a-like' conversions, but I still have a few questions on the lamp enclosures for our cars. Here's my take on it:
One of the things a lot of people don’t realize is that there is a big difference between a true H.I.D. conversion and the H4 headlamp conversions. People see the lights on today’s luxury cars and notice how bright and cool they look, but there is a lot more going on behind the scenes that we cant see. The lights on these luxury cars are true H.I.D. and use a completely different technology (called arc discharge) to produce the light as opposed to the H4 or sealed beam lights. Generally speaking, the H4's are of lower quality (explained below) ... but still ... both are brighter than stock. Both types of conversions will completely replace your headlamps and deciding on what conversion to do will depend on a) how important it is for you to see very clearly and b) how much you want to spend.
Here's how to spot the differences:
- H4 HID/Xenon Conversion for $50 - First thing that you'll notice when comparing to a true H.I.D. system is the price ... under $100. These kits usually include the H4 headlamps, the H4 bulbs, and the wire harness. The part you really need to pay attention to is the bulb. H4 bulbs use Xenon charged gas to produce light and they come in a variety of colors and wattage selections (displayed in xx/xx or high-watt/low-watt). The color of the light will depend on what color they tinted the bulb (keep in mind when comparing to true H.I.D. that tinting causes the light to be dimmer). The wattage is the most important part you need to pay attention to. Running H4 bulbs with too much wattage will damage your electrical system. It can cause things to short out, as well as extreme heat in the headlamp that can cause things to melt. I cant say for sure what wattage settings will work best on our cars. Generally speaking the higher the watt, the brighter the light. But I would suggest you play it safe and run the lowest wattage bulbs you can find. I did the H4 conversion on my truck and completely melted everything. For those of us with Camaro's (4 headlamp assembly) we really need to watch out because with 4 of these installed, when you hit brights you will have 4 bulbs pushing the max high wattage on the box .... And if you're running 100w/90w bulbs that’s a guarantee you will draw too much from the cars electrical system. The other downside ... the H4 headlights are the ones that are illegal and cops will love to pull you over. The headlamp enclosure itself might have a stamped 'DOT Approved' tag but the bulb is not DOT approved. They also come in a bunch of colors guaranteed to piss off law enforcement everywhere (from ultra white to blue to purple to yellow to green and it goes on and on). These are the kits you find on Ebay.
- True H.I.D. conversion for $400-$600 - These are the kits like the one that 2vmodular posted. These don’t come with the headlamp enclosure. These kits include: two H.I.D. bulbs, two remote ballasts with plates and connection cables, wire ties, custom fit screws, two polarity adjusters, two 30 amp fuses, and full manufacturer installation instructions. Why so expensive and why so much better than H4 conversions? Well true H.I.D.'s produce daylight quality light and brightness, far outperforming conventional quartz halogen lighting systems. A single H.I.D.. bulb produces an equivalent of 250 watts of halogen lighting power while only consuming around 50 watts. Without the use of a filament, these lamps fire an electric charge at 18,000 volts between two electrodes encased in a xenon gas-filled bulb. The results are revolutionary, consuming much less energy, significantly reducing heat generation, yet providing outstanding brightness and durability. The results are a daylight white/blue light that produces more than 3 times the amount of lumens as compared to halogen light, while consuming only about 50 watts of power. Once the bulb is up to full brightness (about 1 second), the controller then provides a steady 90 volts to maintain the arc. The color of the light depends on how bright it is. Unlike the H4 bulbs, nothing is tinted, and the actual brightness as compared to the light spectrum is why you see those yellow/purple/blue hues. Here is a good picture of the spectrum:
And as far as the H.I.D. technology, I found a simplified explanation here:
---
From the website 'The Headlamps FAQ' by Daniel J. Stern, located here
The technology at work in an arc-discharge headlamp is exactly the same as the electronic flash on your camera; an electric spark (or arc) jumps a gap inside of a capsule filled with Xenon gas. The arc produces much more light than a glowing filament, and the light is of a higher "color temperature", meaning it more closely approximates a true-white color.
---
So basically it means you are paying for lights that are way brighter, legal, and really easy on your electrical system. If you choose to do one of these conversions you will need to get some H4 headlamp enclosures and use the H4 retrofit true H.I.D. kit in the H4 headlamp enclosure. As mentioned before, H.I.D. lights don’t have dual filament capabilities (regular and brights), so Firebirds with single headlamps won't have brights. But its actually ok because the light produced by a true H.I.D. system is way brighter than the light produced by the stock halogen lamps in the bright setting. So in other words you would be driving around with your brights on all the time. For those of us with Camaro’s (4 lamp assembly) we are in luck because we can install one set on the outer lights for everyday use, and another set on the inside for super brights (twice the light!). Combine that with some high wattage driving lights and you might be able to set trees on fire!! (joke!).
So there I have (sort of) laid out the differences. For me personally I have decided that I am willing to spend the money for a true H.I.D. setup. I have driven a BMW with the true H.I.D. and I was able to see much further and everything in front of me was a lot brighter (comparing to the stocks in my 3rd gen). So for me it will take two true kits (thats $1200 there! ouch!), 4 diamond cut H4 enclosures, and the set of 100watt PIAA ultrawhite driving lights I already have. But I'm sure it will be money well spent next time I'm doing 150 on the freeway.
Here's my question. Since I plan to do the true conversion, I want to know who makes the best H4 headlamp enclosures. I have heard that Hella makes enclosures for universal fitments but I didnt see our size enclosures there. I want to get the best enclosure because the cheaply made H4 enclosures wont reflect as good as the glass diamond cut ones. Anyone know? thanks!!
GREAT info there. I used to have the Hella H4 conversion on my car a long time ago. The enclosures held up for a while but eventually a rock came up and put a hole right through one of them, so had to take them out. So you may want to pick up an extra set of enclosures and always keep a spare because they will break just like regular headlamps do...but it'll piss you off even more cause its not like "oh well, I'll goto the store and pick up a headlamp", its "*&^)&&&!!! now I gotta order one online and wait a week to get it...".
Sylvania makes some great HID conversion kits. For Camaros, there's the X4656 low beam kit (comes with H1 high beams), and the X1010 auxiliary kit. Firebirds get the X6054 kit, which comes with H3 high beams. You can get any of these from autobarn.net and probably many other sites, as well. Just do a search on Yahoo.
Actually, there is place that now makes H4 HIDs w/ a solenoid that changed the position of the arc so it can be used as high and low beam in a single bulb w/ a single kit.
I will have to draw out a price comparison sometime, but i was considering picking up an actual head lamp enclosure from a BMW, like the black enclosured ones on the M3s. They look like they would fit in a camaro's head lamp assembly but i am sure i would have to modify some stuff! I was looking at doing this compared to buying the HID kit for $600. I know that i will have trouble getting power to the new head lamps, i doubt that it will be an easy splicing job! I would think that i would need wiring diagrams for both cars and it would probally be best to get all of the stuff from a donor car so that i could take everything insted of going to the dealer and guessing on what parts i may need! If any of you have heard of some one doing this, please let me know so that i may be able to contact them. I have seen people put in the 1 piece head lamps from Chevy trucks before, i just might end up doing that and put in some "bulbs" and be happy with that. I would rather have a custom headlight conversion instead of buying a kit. It would be a lot of work but it would be worth it. If it is too pricy, i might as well buy the kit or go with the truck conversion! Thanks for all of the info Crazy, i knew that the HID lights were gas charged but i did not know it to that extent, thanks. Well, any coments or info would be great-Later!
Actually, it would be a simple splice job after you got the headlights installed. I have seen the BMW setup for the headlights, and they are the same as any other car. Just they have a HID remote ballast instead of the normal bulb setup
Hey AmorgetRS, you mean that you saw the assembly on a BMW or a Camaro? I could probally go check out a BMW that my friends father owns, i am sure that would help! So they have the remote for the HIDs just like the ones that we would buy, just that they come stock on their cars? It is not internal on the lights? I could probally find the parts over the internet if i don't have any luck around here. Any info would help man, thanks!
Yes, the conversion kits and the stock ones are almost the same. The difference is the way the bulbs plug into the socket. The conversion kit basically makes them fit in a H1, H3, H3, or whatever type of light it is... the true HID bulbs are different and don't fit the normal sockets. The ones I saw where on a BMW... went to a BMW/VW gathering and saw one kit who had a CAI but the ballast wouldn't mount correctly w/ it.
As far as relays fixing the higher wattage problems, not true. Those high watt bulbs will melt the plastic diamond cut headlights. Nothing can be done about the head higher wattage bulbs create.
I have H4 90 watt bulbs on my low beam and stock high beams. I have the APC H4 Wiring harness which bolts directly to the battery and to one socket on the old headlight kit. It is very nice made the bulbs burn even brighter than on the stock harness, also safer because its heavier gauge wire and has all relays on it, I just need to finish it with an inline fuse. Eventually I will be putting on H4's in the highbeams, but ? I noticed that when attaching the H4 upgrade harness to the highbeams instead of all 4 lights being on at high it only lights one or the other really bright then the other low. Like if my low beams are on the high beams will glow dim. It I turn on high beams, my low beams dimly glow. APC says there is an optional part to buy to allow correct low/high usage on 4 head light systems like our camaros. Anyone know what this part may be and if I can make it myself? Or it the dimly glowing bulbs is harmful?? Just in case I only run the lows off the APC kit adn the highs on the stock wires so everything works like stock right now, but once I upgrade my highs to H4 I will need a solution to this problem.
__________________ 1992 Camaro RS 3.1 V6
Teal with Silver stripes
K&N filter
3" Flowmaster catback with blown out cat
Two Alpine Type-R 12" subwoofers, powered by Hifonics Brutus 1500.1
JaDeCaMaRoRS you need to rewire the APC harness if your still using sealed beams, if you've already switched to H4 bulbs you may have not switched the pin connectors plug layout. I had the same problem when I installed the APC harness in my Elky.
If that's the problem follow this image/diagram to rewire the low beam connectors and the pin out connector. http://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/te...es/connect.gif Sadly I foundout how it needed to be rewired on my own, then found that on TGO.
OK I think I understand what ur saying...but just to make sure. now that diagram is of the tan box connectors that attach to the headlight right? And if so that diagram I dont get it, like which one is the APC harness? and which one am I supposed to rewire it to be like? as far as the ground/high/low connections.
thanks for any help!
__________________ 1992 Camaro RS 3.1 V6
Teal with Silver stripes
K&N filter
3" Flowmaster catback with blown out cat
Two Alpine Type-R 12" subwoofers, powered by Hifonics Brutus 1500.1
I'll put it this way black=driver/left side of plug, blue=middle/lower slot, yellow=passanger/right side of plug. That's the way the plugs should look when their plugged into the headlight. And the trigger pin layout should be connected like this: green to red, brown to white, black to black. The stock trigger wires my be colored different for your Camaro, that was done assuming GM used the same colors for g-bodies as well. I hope that helps you out, if not, on the diagram the top one is the H4 connector (how the APC was originally wired) and the middle one is the stock X4556 connector.
okay so after much reading im very much interested in doing the H.I.D. conversion, now from what ive read the bulbs get extreamly hot, what is the recomodation for bulb housings, ones that wont melt..
Hey guys I'm new to the boards but I'm actually in the HID business. I've dealt with customers with 86 and up Camero's and Firebirds before and the question they normally ask is hot to get a complete conversion done.
For the comment left by CrazyHawaiian
He left a very good description on how to tell the difference.
Majority of the True HID Kits mainly run from 35-50 watts and produce color from the Kelvin Temperature.
The higher the Kelvin the more color you get in the bulb (ex: 4300k Platinum White with a slight hint of Yellow, 6000k Crystal white with a slight hint of blue, all the way to 14000k Pure Purple/Magenta)
For the Camaros and the 4 headlight housing that are sealed you would need to buy an aftermarket housing which would hold the bulb.
Stated earlier H4 is not a kit its a bulb size that fits the vehicles housing. And the Kelvin is the color so when ordering it would be like this:
86 Camero
H4 Bi-Xenon 6000k Kit
The kit includes 2 Bi-Xenon H4 size 6000k Bulbs, 2 Ballast and all the mounting hardware.
Bulbs with colored film are NOT real HID's. They're just bulbs with a higher wattage producing white light that hits the tint.
There are 3 Styles of TRUE HID Kits.
1) Single Beam (Single Low Beam bulbs)
2) High/Lo system (2 Bulbs on 1 unit meaning, HID low beam & Halogen Highbeam in 1 bulb)
3) Bi-Xenon (You'll see these on BMW's its a 1 bulb design with a motor inside. These are HID High beam and HID Low beam in a single bulb. When you switch from Low beam to High the motor inside the Bulb tilts the bulb Upwards to give the high beam HID.)
For questions regarding headlamp housing:
1) Cibie makes a DOT approved headlamp housing for the thirdgens. The reflector housing does not matter and will not melt since the wattage being produced from a REAL HID kit is only 35-50watts. They charge roughly $85-$95 per housing.
2) Sylvania makes an all in 1 solution conversion but are not REAL HID conversions. Its just a Hallogen bulb with film on it.
I'm sorry if all my explanations are jumbled and if i'm not clear on some parts but i guess thats the best i can do. If you guys have any questions i'm an Authorized Reseller for PILOT HID.
You can PM me if you have any questions and I'll try to answer your questions.
Hella makes E code conversion housings for our cars too. The E code housings are not DOT approved, but they are approved for use in Europe. The E code lenses have a much better light pattern on the road then the DOT lenses. I bought mine from here http://www.rallylights.com/hella/165mm_lo.asp. They have both the E code and freeform housings, don't confuse them, the freeforms are crap for HIDs. I bought item #H65451
Set 165mm Rectangular ECE Conversion Headlamps. Two Hi/Lo beam with 60/55w H4 Bulb and two Hi beam with 55w H1 bulbs and adapters
I got the Hi and low beams. the hi are h1 and the low are h4 ( common bulbs )
On ebay the h4 HID kits are maybe $100 shipped.
notice how clear the lenses are ( the one is damp from the rain. )
ill take a pic of the lights on, IIRC they are 6000k white and the hi beam is a regular H1. The nice HID light makes the HI beams look like crap tho, need HID hi now.
That being said the conversion makes it so only the hi are on OR only the low. I am going to wire in something so when hi beam all the lights are on again.
Last edited by Saigon_Bob; 08-16-2008 at 12:40 PM.
I got the Hi and low beams. the hi are h1 and the low are h4 ( common bulbs )
On ebay the h4 HID kits are maybe $100 shipped.
ill take a pic of the lights on, IIRC they are 6000k white and the hi beam is a regular H1. The nice HID light makes the HI beams look like crap tho, need HID hi now.
That being said the conversion makes it so only the hi are on OR only the low. I am going to wire in something so when hi beam all the lights are on again.
Same ones I have and posted about 2 post up. I dunno what you have, but I got dual beam H4 HID bulbs, so the "outer" set of lights have both hi and lo beam, just like stock headlights. And the inner set is H1 HID bulbs.
So I'm guessing you don't have dual beam H4 bulbs, and that is why you outer set is lo beam only.
Same ones I have and posted about 2 post up. I dunno what you have, but I got dual beam H4 HID bulbs, so the "outer" set of lights have both hi and lo beam, just like stock headlights. And the inner set is H1 HID bulbs.
So I'm guessing you don't have dual beam H4 bulbs, and that is why you outer set is lo beam only.
never thought of getting those... lol.. thanks for the tip.
it might. i don't have them. i can't see it working for firebirds bc there simply isn't enough room behind the lens for that thing to fit. you may be able to make it work with some mods. as for the camaro, i'm not sure if it'll work...i don't see why it wouldn't. i know the wiring on the camaro is different for the 4 headlight system as opposed to the 2 headlight system of the firebird. there definitely should be enough clearance for the bulb in the camaro.
LG4 305ci 4bbl motor, 2.5" Cherry Bomb Extreme muffler- side exit exhaust, Cragar 15x7 Black D Window wheels (4" backspacing), Cooper Cobra Radial GT tires (P235/60R15), 36mm hollow front sway bar with wonder bar, 24mm rear sway bar, Energy Suspension endlinks and Guldstrand bushings, Edelbrock Elite 4222 air cleaner with K&N filter, FF Dynamics 16" Cyclone electric fan, Flex-a-lite Variable Speed Fan Controller, custom fixed headlight conversion with 5000K HIDs and Silverstar Ultra H7 bulbs, Pilot PL-362W driving lights with Hella 100W H3 bulbs, Deka Intimidator 9A78DT AGM battery
Last edited by punkdude908; 02-12-2009 at 12:12 PM.
it might. i don't have them. i can't see it working for firebirds bc there simply isn't enough room behind the lens for that thing to fit. you may be able to make it work with some mods. as for the camaro, i'm not sure if it'll work...i don't see why it wouldn't. i know the wiring on the camaro is different for the 4 headlight system as opposed to the 2 headlight system of the firebird. there definitely should be enough clearance for the bulb in the camaro.
HarmonyCamaro, that is an H11 bulb kit, most housing that fit our cars will use H4 bulb, andthe high beam only housing will most likely use an H1 bulb. Eitherway, the bulb type must match the housings.
I'm not rying to be nasty or anything, but you really should do a little research (use the search feature) before asking any questions. But to ask what the "housings" are, just shows you lazy to even do a search. All the info is already on here. I did it myself, not knowing a thing, with the info on here, and some other sources. Get out of your car and look at how the stock headlights work, and copy with the HIDs. You can do it. You'll get a much better understanding, then if someone just tells you to buy this and that. Reading "Plug that into this, ect,ect. I mean if your gonna do it, do it right! Wouldn't you like to at least learn something about your car?
ok krisb but if i buy two sets.. and put them in all four places how much modification will i need to do? and so i will have all four of them low and high beam. or will that end up screwing something up
i want it to work like this because i don't want my low beams look brighter then my normal high beams.. i want all of them to look the same. plus it being blue/purple and the inner ones still yellow look kinda stupid.. there a car like that in town..
You can still buy HIDs for the inner set Just don't need bi-xenon. Just buy matching "K" HIDs for the "inner" set of Hi beam housings
Oh, and if you want 4 low beams and 4 hi beams, you figure the modifications out, I'm not gonna waste my time typing it out because but that's truly overkill, esp with HIDs.
I will tell you this, Hi beam only housings (H1 bulb) have different lenses than the dual hi/low beam housings (H4 bulb), and you'll be missing out on the better light pattern of the hi beam only lenses. There is a huge difference in the light pattern on a H4 lens compared to the H1 lens.
well kris i don't know were to look for the high beam housings... i have no clue were to get them.. wanna help me out? and sorry for making you pist off at me....
Last edited by HarmonyCamaro; 02-17-2009 at 11:28 PM.
Just don't need bi-xenon. Just buy matching "K" HIDs for the "inner" set of Hi beam housings
