Go Back   Third Generation F-Body Message Boards > Tech Boards > Electronics
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?

Electronics Need help wiring something up? Thinking of adding an electrical component to your car? Need help troubleshooting that wiring glitch?

Welcome to ThirdGen.org!
Welcome to ThirdGen.org.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, join the ThirdGen.org community today!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-24-2008, 02:26 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
TheScaryOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 1,416
Car: 1987 IROC-Z Camaro
Engine: L98 5.7L TPI
Transmission: 700-R4
Axle/Gears: 3.27 BW

Classifieds Rating: (2)
Send a message via ICQ to TheScaryOne Send a message via AIM to TheScaryOne Send a message via MSN to TheScaryOne Send a message via Yahoo to TheScaryOne
Big Three, The Rubber Nemesis, And More!

Been wanting to do the big three for a while. I just have a few questions on the topic.

Firstly, I've found the 1/0 Gauge welding wire at a local shop. Gonna use that and use red heatshrink on the end of the positive wire, black on the negative for lack of confusion.

I know the big three is as follows
  1. Alternator Positive to Battery Positive.
  2. Battery to Chassis Ground.
  3. Engine to Chassis Ground.
But, while I was out surveying my engine bay, I find that my negative battery cable goes to the engine. Not the chassis. Well, there is a 16-18g wire that goes to the fender, which is really freaking pathetic, but I digress.

Negative Battery Cable:


Crappy sixteen gauge wire to Chassis:


Where the bulk of the negative cable runs to:


When I run the new wire, should I run a thick wire over to the engine like it is now? Or should I just ground it to the chassis and then ground the engine to the chassis really well? I think it'd get a bit cramped if I tried to run a 1/0 to chassis and then another 1/0 or even down to a four over to where the ground currently is.

Then I come to look at the positive wire. Jeeze. Did GM cluster**** that or what? It has a large gauge coming out of it (for the starter) and a a 8 gauge I'd guess going to The Rubber Nemesis. What the hell is this thing? It's got an 8 gauge going in, and 8 gauge going out, and two 16 gauge (one orange one black) going in or out. The 8 gauge goes out to the alternator post. The orange 16 goes to a weatherpack connector in the harness nearby. The black 16 goes up to a fuse holder, which then has an orange that comes off of it, which goes into a weatherpack into the harness.

Positive cable:


The Rubber Nemisis:


The Orange Weatherpack:


The Fuse Holder:


The Orange Weatherpack Numero El Dos:


Now, I've been wondering for a while how I'm gonna get rid of that thing. I don't know if the wires are connected, or what. Some people say it's a fusible link. Doesn't look like any fusible link I've ever seen! And it's connected to the alternator! Is it a primitive distribution block? Does anyone recommend a way to replace this thing? Ugh. It's a mess!

Also, the factory battery cable ends are rubber coated. I like the cleanliness of the look. Are there any aftermarket battery cable ends that look similar? And, on a related note, the positive terminal needs a fat wire to the alternator, AND a fat wire to the starter. Has anyone conquered running two large wires right there? Any pics? Advice?

Thanks for any help!
__________________
TheScaryOne is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2008, 12:05 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
TheScaryOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 1,416
Car: 1987 IROC-Z Camaro
Engine: L98 5.7L TPI
Transmission: 700-R4
Axle/Gears: 3.27 BW

Classifieds Rating: (2)
Send a message via ICQ to TheScaryOne Send a message via AIM to TheScaryOne Send a message via MSN to TheScaryOne Send a message via Yahoo to TheScaryOne
Re: Big Three, The Rubber Nemesis, And More!



Anyone with any ideas on this? My wiring schematic shows the thick wires for the alternator and the black wire tapping onto a single point there, and the orange wire as an intermediate wire that turns into a fusible link (red wire) for the fans.

Does the fan wire and fuse wire just tie into the alternator wire here so they get constant 13.4v without tying onto the battery?
TheScaryOne is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2008, 03:45 PM   #3
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 5

Classifieds Rating: (0)
Re: Big Three, The Rubber Nemesis, And More!

have you measured your "rubber nemisis" im not sure but i would suspect that it was a noise "high frequency" filter due to the fact that it is attached to an electric motor and an alternator. if you measure across it and it appears to be a short them its probably just an inductor "noise filter" alot of times they are not needed in my opinion but in this case im not sure.
aubicon is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2008, 05:55 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
TheScaryOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 1,416
Car: 1987 IROC-Z Camaro
Engine: L98 5.7L TPI
Transmission: 700-R4
Axle/Gears: 3.27 BW

Classifieds Rating: (2)
Send a message via ICQ to TheScaryOne Send a message via AIM to TheScaryOne Send a message via MSN to TheScaryOne Send a message via Yahoo to TheScaryOne
Re: Big Three, The Rubber Nemesis, And More!

This is the schematic I'm looking at.


And the large red thing says "fusible link" and I know that's the wire just before the second connector.
TheScaryOne is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2008, 07:49 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
KYLE87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: South of Dallas, Texas
Posts: 861
Car: 1987 Chevy Camaro Sport Coupe
Engine: 305 LG4
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 2.73's

Classifieds Rating: (2)
Re: Big Three, The Rubber Nemesis, And More!

I though it was just used to tie in the orange wire for the ECM to the alternators wire?
KYLE87 is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2008, 08:21 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
TheScaryOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 1,416
Car: 1987 IROC-Z Camaro
Engine: L98 5.7L TPI
Transmission: 700-R4
Axle/Gears: 3.27 BW

Classifieds Rating: (2)
Send a message via ICQ to TheScaryOne Send a message via AIM to TheScaryOne Send a message via MSN to TheScaryOne Send a message via Yahoo to TheScaryOne
Re: Big Three, The Rubber Nemesis, And More!

Apparently it's the MAF Power Relay, MAF Burnoff Relay, Fuel Pump Switch, Fuel Pump Relay, ECM, and both fan relays. That's a pretty important little connector there. I think I'm just gonna buy a distribution block that has two 1/0 gauge connectors and three 8 gauge. Figure something out. Oh, and throw a glass half amp fuse between the block and those relays.
TheScaryOne is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2008, 10:08 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
KYLE87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: South of Dallas, Texas
Posts: 861
Car: 1987 Chevy Camaro Sport Coupe
Engine: 305 LG4
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 2.73's

Classifieds Rating: (2)
Re: Big Three, The Rubber Nemesis, And More!

Looking at that more the connectors different than mine. I guess since Im carbed, It looks really similar though, Im surprised noone who did this mod chimmed in already, tons of people on here have done it. Be sure to post pics up when you do it because im kinda nervous about doing it but I really want to.
KYLE87 is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2008, 06:12 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
KYLE87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: South of Dallas, Texas
Posts: 861
Car: 1987 Chevy Camaro Sport Coupe
Engine: 305 LG4
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 2.73's

Classifieds Rating: (2)
Re: Big Three, The Rubber Nemesis, And More!

Did you end up doing this?
KYLE87 is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2008, 07:17 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
TheScaryOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 1,416
Car: 1987 IROC-Z Camaro
Engine: L98 5.7L TPI
Transmission: 700-R4
Axle/Gears: 3.27 BW

Classifieds Rating: (2)
Send a message via ICQ to TheScaryOne Send a message via AIM to TheScaryOne Send a message via MSN to TheScaryOne Send a message via Yahoo to TheScaryOne
Re: Big Three, The Rubber Nemesis, And More!

Not yet. More pressing matters!

Like, I need carpet! Still on my to do list though.
TheScaryOne is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2008, 09:02 AM   #10
Supreme Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,441
Car: Yes
Engine: Usually
Transmission: Sometimes
Axle/Gears: Behind me somewhere

Classifieds Rating: (1)
Re: Big Three, The Rubber Nemesis, And More!

I'm not sure about all this "big three" and "nemesis" type of talk; never heard of such. I'm just going to leave all of that aside.

However, many years spent in electrical engineering of various sorts, has taught me the wisdom of putting the copper where the current goes; and of making that path as short as possible.

In the case of a car, the SINGLE BIGGEST current flow that occurs, is operating the starter. The starter current is AT LEAST twice as much as the maximum possible flow of the ENTIRE rest of the car, operating simultaneously; i.e. if you operated both power windows, all 3 power seat motors, AC with blower on high, headlights on bright, rear window defogger, wipers on high, and so forth, ALL AT ONCE, it's still only a fraction of the starter draw. That means, the SINGLE BIGGEST and SHORTEST wiring path, should be the one that carries the starter current; from the + batt term, to the starter, and then when it comes back out the ground side of the starter, back to the - batt term.

Since the starter body is connected ("grounded", as people say, although that word is a misnomer) to the engine block, and that connection is FAR "bigger" than a wire, then the - batt cable should conect to the engine block, or as close to it as possible.

Meaning, the way the factory did it, is correct; although it could be improved slightly maybe by putting the - batt cable under a blot that goes straight into the block. But that's VERY minor.

I would NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, connect the batt to the chassis, and then the motor to the chassis; as this would force the starter current to flow via that extra-long path. Not in accordance with good design principles.

If you feel for some reason that the factory's connection of the chassis to the battery is inadequate, leave the - cable hooked to the block like it is; but add a BIG HEAVY cable from the block to an electrically solid point on the chassis. I'd suggest connecting from a bell housing bolt to a big heavy piece of hardware that's NOT a sheet metal screw, on the firewall; something like, drill a 3/8" hole, and use a 3/8" brass or stainless bolt and nut through the firewall to clamp it with a stainless star washer between the cable "eye" and the chassis metal, after sanding the metal bare and putting some dielectric grease on it to keep it from rusting.

"Ground" is too often used much like "timing" or "EGR" or "external balance" as the cause of problems. While each of those things is a valid concept with a well-defined meaning, and each must work properly for the car to be its best, they're "mystical" "mysteries of the universe" usually used by people to "explain" happenngs that they can't otherwise figure out, usually because they have some sort of notion in their mind about how stuff works that isn't how it really works, and rather than learn how something works, they just want something nebulous and fuzzy to "blame". Not a real good way to go through life.
__________________
Numquam ponenda est pluralitas sine necessitate.
— William of Ockham, from Quaestiones et decisiones in quattuor libros Sententiarum Petri Lombardi

Roughly paraphrased into modern English, and applied to figuring out what's wrong with your car:

The simplest explanation that fits all the facts is probably the right one.
sofakingdom is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2008, 06:06 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
KYLE87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: South of Dallas, Texas
Posts: 861
Car: 1987 Chevy Camaro Sport Coupe
Engine: 305 LG4
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 2.73's

Classifieds Rating: (2)
Re: Big Three, The Rubber Nemesis, And More!

This is an old thread, but I read up on this some more and someone who did this on there car just left the orignal alternator wire to avoid messing with the weird black thing and just added the new wire in there along with the original and fused the new wire.
__________________

1987 Sport Coupe NTTGA
KYLE87 is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2008, 11:11 PM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: CT
Posts: 217
Car: 1992 Z/28
Engine: 305
Transmission: Auto
Axle/Gears: 2.73's I think

Classifieds Rating: (0)
Re: Big Three, The Rubber Nemesis, And More!

I'm curious to know how it panned out. I wanted to do the Big 3 too and came across the "rubber nemesis" and decided to try other things first too. On my 92 Z, the battery is grounded to the block through a bolt directly, not to a bracket...
Jeffrey Fontaine is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 11:58 AM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: CT
Posts: 217
Car: 1992 Z/28
Engine: 305
Transmission: Auto
Axle/Gears: 2.73's I think

Classifieds Rating: (0)
Re: Big Three, The Rubber Nemesis, And More!

Any update?
Jeffrey Fontaine is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2008, 09:21 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
TheScaryOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 1,416
Car: 1987 IROC-Z Camaro
Engine: L98 5.7L TPI
Transmission: 700-R4
Axle/Gears: 3.27 BW

Classifieds Rating: (2)
Send a message via ICQ to TheScaryOne Send a message via AIM to TheScaryOne Send a message via MSN to TheScaryOne Send a message via Yahoo to TheScaryOne
Re: Big Three, The Rubber Nemesis, And More!

Not really. Haven't made any progress. Been working on other things. :/
TheScaryOne is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2008, 09:21 PM
ThirdGen
1992 Camaro




Paid Advertisement


Reply

Go Back   Third Generation F-Body Message Boards > Tech Boards > Electronics

Tags
1984, 1989, aubicon, battery, big, cable, cables, camaro, chevy, diagram, fbody, fusible, hardware, link, wiring
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 


1982 Camaro '82 || 1983 Camaro '83 || 1984 Camaro '84 || 1985 Camaro '85 || 1986 Camaro '86 || 1987 Camaro '87 || 1988 Camaro '88 || 1989 Camaro '89 || 1990 Camaro '90 || 1991 Camaro '91 || 1992 Camaro '92


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright © 1997 - 2012 ThirdGen.org. All rights reserved. No part of this website may be reproduced without the expressed, documented, and written consent of ThirdGen.org's Administrators.

Emails & Contact Details