I'm about to junk this thing, so ANY help would be much obliged. (for IT'S sake). Here's the problem: I have an 89 RS, and when I turn my headlights on, the lights dont go on, and the radio, and ALL interior lights go off and will not turn back on. The wipers, blinkers (and blinker lights) brake lights and heater fans ALL work. The strange thing is; if I shut the car off for a couple hours, and come back to it; the interior light and radio switch on again, UNTIL I pull the head light switch on, and they all cut out again. I've change the Head-light switch (obviously fine) the "antenna relay" and BOUGHT the "head lamp relay", but CANNOT for the LOVE of all that is holy, find WHERE it is located, TO change it. Can anyone shed some light on this - if not the problem itself, then AT the very least WHERE oh where is the "Head lamp relay" located in an 89 RS camaro? I've worked on this thing 2 days now, and I'm seriously about ready to toss it. Thanks in advance.

The problem appears to be your "Dimmer" circuit...... there is no "relay" in a camaro for the lighting.

Since you have already replaced the headlight switch - My suggestion is to remove the radio and re-check that wiring. I think the grey wire is the dimmer control,....... It supplies the radio with backlighting when the headlights get turned on.

Thanks for responding - I should also add that when the "curcuit" is working (Before I PULL on my headlights and it all goes dead) there is 12 volt current coming in through the firewall at the lighting harness, but when I PULL the lights on, there is NO current what so ever coming through that wire, and nothing coming INTO the fuse panel at those 3 fuses. (the radio,acc and lights).

Would this be consistent with the "Dimmer" wire? And Is the dimmer the same as the instrument panel lights in general?

Thanks again

Just a crazy quick thought off the top of my head.
Does it sound possible to anyone that maybe one of the fusible links next to the starter could possibly be bad?

Actually someone on another board mentioned the fusible link from the starter potentially being the problem: but could that account for radio and interior lights becoming functional again after an hour or so - and then of course I pull the head light switch on - and they all cut out?

Could a fusible link be still flowing with current, but on its way to cutting, and still pass enough voltage to power my radio and accessories, but then CUT out when I flip the headlights on?

Since putting load on the battery causes everything else to shut down, I'd look at the battery terminals, their connection to the battery posts, their connection to the cables, then also the wires on the starter.

A bad connection can provide enough power for the radio and dome light but once you turn something big on (headlights, starter), the connection burns out and everything goes dead. Then in a couple of hours, another connection forms in the bad spot and the process repeats.

Been there, done that.

Hope this helps.
Lou

I want to thank you guys for your help; turns out it was the charging wire from the alternator that was corroded, right at the battery cable. I replaced the bad "crimp connector" and everything is fine.

Although I'm hoping this wasn't just a "coincidental" fix.

Now would a bad connection (still carrying current, but clearly hanging on by a thread) AT the charging wire from the alternator, be enough to cut out your headlights?

If you happen to glance by this topic again - I'd be curious to know your views.
Thanks

yes,if the connection was that poor it could cause those problems.
I would recomend having the batt/alt checked at the parts store you bought that headlamp relay from since you need to return it anyway.

And I'd be curious which store actually sold you a headlamp relay for your car so that I can stay away from them. Wouldn't want them to sell me a muffler bearing or flux capacitor!

Lou

Autozone. in fact, here's the link to the exact part.

http://www.autozone.com/selectedZip,.../selectZip.htm

Turns out that is was a "coincidental" fix. (The problem is back) I had the alternator checked at (again) Autozone, and they said it was faulty, bought a new one, seemed to fix the problem - then night came; no headlights or interior lights yet, AGAIN.

I'm now moving to the original suggestion - the fusible links. One question, on my Starting and charging system wiring diagram for an 89 camaro, it shows 4 wires going into the Alternator, and I only have 3; One thick gage red clearly going to the battery, and then 2 going to what I assume is the instrument cluster panel and fuse box, but the diagram also shows a fusible linked wire coming from the Starter to the Alternator as well, which I CLEARLY dont have.

I looked at the 90 camaro charging wiring diagram, and it has 3 wires coming off the alternator, much like mine.

Is it possible I have a later year 89 that has a different wiring set up - or am I missing something?

My 89 RS is an vin E, if that helps.

Thanks

Alright I replaced one of the wires going to the starter that was spliced about 4 times (literally), and badly corroded I assumed it was the ACC wire, since it went up into the harness that "Y" connects at the alternator and then into my firewall - but still the problem persists. I did however JUMP a wire from the battery into my ACC fuse, and EVERYTHING worked fine. So the problem isn't bad grounds.
My question now is, would I be OK just jumping a wire from the battery into a drilled hole in my firewall and jumped into the ACC fusebox, and bypassing this whole nightmare?

If you go to the trouble of separating the plug at the firewall, you can measure the voltage drop at each of the big red wires going back to the starter. One of them is probably bad. Your interior stuff is getting power back fed through some other wire (alternator gauge?) that can't flow enough current to operate your head lights.

Yeah, you're right... I'll check that tomorrow and report back with my findings.

Thanks
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"Your interior stuff is getting power back fed through some other wire (alternator gauge?)"

Question: So you're saying that my wipers, turn signal and brake lights are somehow SUCKING voltage through the alternator gauge? Is that EVEN possible??

Your headlight switch has a circuit breaker in it, if you have a shorted wire somewhere, when you turn on the lights it heats up and breaks the circuit.
After it cools off it comes back on.

Start checking for shorts in the system.

Now that's something I had NO idea about. (breaker in the light switch)

But being that if I run a jump wire into my Accessory fuse and everything works fine, can I be reasonably sure that the problem lies from the firewall back (to the engine compartment) and NOT in the interior at this point?

from what I'm reading totally tommy it sounds like the acc. wire on the eng.compartment side is the culprit.You probably could get away with the idea you mentioned about running a new wire but,that could possibly cause more problems in the future.

Thanks for the tip Tim - I have one question on that: IN the "C100" diagram, it shows the A4 connector at the "power distribution(ignition switch)" and the G5 connector as the "power distribution(light switch)".

Now, does that mean the G5 connector is WHERE the power comes in for the ACC? And is THAT where I should look for the problem wire?

I included a link to the C100 wiring diagram; It will show you what I'm talking about:

http://chicago40suncensored.files.wo..._1989_c100.gif

Thanks

If you're feeding unfused power back into a damaged circuit aren't you concerned about starting a fire? I'm sorry I can't help you with your current problem ... no pun intended... lol. Einstein I'm not.

A4 is the input to the ign. and all it components. (ACC)

G5 is the input to the headlight circuit breaker.

I came to that conclusion as well, Don; so I cut the G5 (because it was the un-switched of the two)wire coming from the bulkhead (firewall) connection, with the intent of jumping the wire at that point TO the head-light switch, but when I CUT it, ALL the power went out. (no ignition power either).

My question is; if that was JUST the power to the headlight switch (curcuit breaker) and the A4 connector is the MAIN power, why then when I cut the G5 wire, I get NO voltage at all to ANYTHING?

I'm going to proceed with now splicing my jumper wire into the G5 wire and then reconnect where I cut it.

This is still confusing the HELL out of me.

Alright I hooked up the "jumper" all seems to be working fine; what's confusing me though is when I cut the G5 inlet wire (as I said before) it cut out all the power, so instead I spliced into the existing wire, and then CUT the RED wire coming into the Headlight switch connector - thinking that would work (since all the electrical diagrams ive seen, shows the headlight power coming in at the Headlamp switch and then into the fusebox) but it didn't. So I spliced into that wire as well, and all worked. Evidently the wire must splice into the fuse box at some point. (If anyone has any theories on this; I welcome them) My second issue is this: I took out the new Alternator I bought and put back my old one (after Autozone tested it, and found it to be good), with the intent of getting a refund on the new one - but my concern now is, when I'm in gear and at a stop (idling), my Volts gauge shows about a 1.5 or 2 volt drop, and that's the ONLY time I see this. When in park and idling, no such drop. So is this the original alternator having "regulater" probs, or is that normal when you're in gear and stopped to have a drop? (I can't seem to remember how it drove before) Everything is fine, FULL power on the radio - with lights, brites and full heat blowing.

It is my understanding that a Volt gauge is not very good for determing anything other than a battery going dead. I believe an Amp gauge is what you need to determine alternator voltage drops.

The circuits are not completly isolated from each other. Sounds like one of your other wires was bad and the G5 was having to do double duty and thus causing the breaker to blow when the excessive current was pulled. Just like its supposed to.

Measure the voltage at the alternator and again at the battery. Should be over 14 volts with the car running. Check again when a buddy is holding it in drive for you to duplicate what you see when driving. My guess is the alternator is fine and the drop you see is a symptom of your other wiring issues. Thirdgen instruments are not known for being precise scientific equipment. Be sure you are standing to the side of the car when doing the second measuring in case your buddy gets bored and slips of the brake.

That's most likely because the fusable link is burnt in to on the main wire from the starter to the A4.

Fusable links are hard to detect when bad, if the orange part (wire)from the starter to the little black thingy is soft like a noodle, then it's burnt. (inside the insulation)