Vats With Pics. Need some help. You 2 Lou! - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

beat91rs · 08-26-2009, 06:20 PM

Helloo,
Ok so I have been in a no start situation for awhile with a good battery, a bench tested starter, and 12.3 volts at both. After running fine for years one day i get nothing, and i mean nothing. No crank, acc lights in dash(security, Chech engine, etc), no brake lights, no radio, no door locks, no turn signal. Do have interior lights, and headlights(in which dash does light up). Soooo, I have narrowed it to Vats, starter relay, lock cylinder, or ignition switch.. or some sort of short but all fuses are good..fusible link possibly???? Not sure which but i know that from what i have read on here, any could be the case.

Here's what i have done.
-completely gutted the aftermarket alarm in which i never even think worked(pics below), but assumed could put into a no start situation because all the

it was ran through.

-removed the relays(from alarm) wired into the windows and trunk?(pics)

- and found what i beleive to be the mess of vats, that looks bypassed already but i dont think it was done correct? so I assumed this is why he(previous owner) had the alarm later installed.

If someone could steer me in the right direction i would be grateful. I know the ohms in the key resistor. but is pointless to bypass if is already done. Also, i was told to bridge the starter with a screwdriver to see if it will crank but not sure exactly sure of the process, and to connect wires at the starter relay or something of that sort?

I appreciate any help.

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beat91rs · 08-26-2009, 06:23 PM

This was all the jacked up alarm stuff i pulled off. hope none was necessary

beat91rs · 08-26-2009, 06:32 PM

Oh and for the vats, the purple and black wires were not connected to the orange sleeve withe the white wires. The purp, black, and resistor were covered in electric tape????

Pocket · 08-26-2009, 08:56 PM

I think you can rule out a VATS issue since its been running for years and has been bypassed via resistor

Next, the no acc power points to a fusible link. VATS has no control over interior electronics. Just fuel and starter

Check continuity across the fusible links that are located on the starter

Bridging the starter means connecting the large batter wire on the starter to the purple solenoid wire. Usually this is done via screwdriver

BigBadLou · 08-26-2009, 10:35 PM

It's one of the fusible link B. It powers the ignition and accessories.
Either it's not connected to the starter post or the fusible link is blown.

Hope this helps.
Lou

beat91rs · 08-27-2009, 11:53 AM

Thanks guys i'm gonna mess with it today. let you know the progress

beat91rs · 09-27-2009, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBadLou

It's one of the fusible link B. It powers the ignition and accessories.
Either it's not connected to the starter post or the fusible link is blown.

Hope this helps.
Lou

NICE! lol, Thanks for the advice. So here's the deal. I worked on the ride yesterday and made some progress. It was a fusible link that corroded internally at the starter. So I cut it out and ran it straight to the starter for a quick fix just to see what happened. Now i have all lights that i didnt have before, but still no turnover or crank. The security light comes on when i try to start then goes off and does not come back on. Vats possibly?? Well it was bypassed and ran for years, but as i said before i gutted the aftermarket alarm that had a bunch of relays so i dont know if it was rigged to run a certain way and now it won't maybe bc i removed the alarm? When i turn the ignition this little black box clicks( i think starter relay) by the driver side left foot panel. So this is my dilemma. any advice is sweet. here are pics of the vats and relay in an older post

Pocket · 09-27-2009, 09:52 PM

Check for 12v across the coil (pink wire) with the IGN on

If you have 12v then the IGN switch is getting power, its just not getting to the starter

Begin tracing the starter wire
http://www.austinthirdgen.org/mkport...nE_starter.jpg

BigBadLou · 09-27-2009, 10:45 PM

I do not believe the no-crank situation is caused by VATS for two reasons:
1) the security light doesn't stay on
2) the starter enable relay clicks

Here's a short troubleshooting article on a no-crank situation: http://www.austinthirdgen.org/index.php?pid=38

Hope this helps.
Lou

beat91rs · 09-28-2009, 05:06 PM

Thanks, ill let you guys know the progress. I'm going to mess with it today.

beat91rs · 09-29-2009, 05:52 PM

Alright,thanks for bearing with me. So for shits i measured the resistance in 2 differrent keys 11.61 and 11.79(not sure how this converts) then i measured the resistor soldered on the purple and white vats wires(1st pic^which I am unsure if it is on the right wires)=2.069? So they are different, but I'm not sure what it really means. The box that is clicking when i try to start is the starter relay, and as you said above, i tested the large pink wire under the dash in the on and off position. Off has no power, And when turned on, it does have power. Soo ya? There is no power to the shifter wire harness/neutral safety switch in the on or off, except for on the little skinny blue wire pin(im guessing because the starter relay isn't closing or allowing power through?) So next step i am unsure.. nuetral safety switch, starter relay, or drop the column and go from there? Also can i just remove the starter relay and vats all together and run the yellow on the starter relay to the gear selector harness/ nuetral safety? May be a dumb question lol, thanks

BigBadLou · 09-29-2009, 06:36 PM

Maybe a silly question but I gotta ask to cover all possibilities: did you unplug the bypass resistor when measuring its resistance? If not, you measured the resistance of the resistor, the wires and anything else they are connected to (the VATS box).

What are the colors of the stripes on the resistor? I can't tell much from the picture, it looks like brown, red, maybe silver, brown and brown? If read backwards (brown, brown, silver, red, brown), it would give 118E2, i.e. 11.8 kOhm which is a good match.

Anyway, if you check the wires at the starter enable relay (refer to the no-crank troubleshooting article I posted above), you can see whether the relay is being controlled by VATS (the click seems to be a good indication) and whether the contacts actually close and send power to the shifter switch.

Let us know what you find.
Lou

beat91rs · 10-03-2009, 03:22 PM

LOL thanks, and no I originally did not unplug the resistor.oops. I cut the resistor off now because it was soldered and i wanted to just try and plug vats wires back in original to see if it would crank. No crank, and I retested the resistor by itself and you were correct. 11.8ish so it matches the key. so with or without the resistor the starter relay just clicks. It has power in with the yellow wire, but not out the brown wire to the nuetral safety switch. I'm going to put the resistor back on but as for now I'm not sure if I should just replace the starter relay or try and bypass that, or just remove vats all together? Thanks again

beat91rs · 10-07-2009, 12:55 PM

Alright, bypassed the starter enable relay. Tan/white bridged to yellow/white and small black/yellow grounded, and still nothing. So pissed. I am gettin power to the purple wire and also the tan/white at the gear selector harness going into the park/nuetral safety switch when i try to start the car. From there i dont know what to do. where does the power from the gear selector/nutral safety switch run from there and should i replace it? im at a loss and any advise is great. thanks

BigBadLou · 10-07-2009, 01:01 PM

If you have power on the purple wire from the shifter switch while cranking but the starter doesn't crank, there are only two last things to check: the purple wire connection on the starter and the starter itself. One of them must be bad.
Put a test light on the purple wire on the starter and see if it gets power with the key on. If so, it's the starter (or solenoid). If you don't hear any clicking when trying to start, it sounds like the solenoid is bad.

Lou

3rd gen Will · 10-07-2009, 01:28 PM

Have you tested your ignition switch that is halfway down on the top of the steering column?

BigBadLou · 10-07-2009, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3rd gen Will

Have you tested your ignition switch that is halfway down on the top of the steering column?

He has power to the neutral safety switch on the automatic shifter so the ignition switch is definitely working properly.
No need to create more confusion.

Thx
Lou

beat91rs · 10-07-2009, 01:37 PM

Thanks for the quick response Lou. To clarify, the power to the purple wire at the gear selector is while it is not plugged into the nuetral safety switch, but just sticking the test light in the harness pin for the purple wire. Does this matter or should i test while plugged in. And also as the gentleman who posted after you stated about the ignition switch, im almost sure it cannot be this because i have power to the pink wire under the dash when key is in the on/acc position. So if i am correct, i beleive i checked the power to the purple wire at the starter and had power, but i will check later after school, but if there is then it is a bad starter solenoid? thanks, i just want this thing to roar again