Sons car is hurting my brain.. - Page 2 - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

My1ThirdGen · 09-24-2009, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theking

Well if you put power directly to the S terminal on the starter (purple, engage) and it still didnt engage at the flywheel the starter is bad.

Cause when you do what I said, you will run the starter directly from the battery and then it should turn over the engine.

And the relay at driverside shouldnt get to hot when cranking, maybe the starter is fried ?

Ok you have a pos terminal on starter and a neg one i tested 12 volts to the post terminal with key on which means it got power now what i tapped the starter it spins/engages but does not start.
i will pull starter and have it tested its brand new i had it tested before i left advanced auto but ill do it again.. ugg im begining to get the bowtie blues...............

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My1ThirdGen · 09-24-2009, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theking

Well if you put power directly to the S terminal on the starter (purple, engage) and it still didnt engage at the flywheel the starter is bad.

Cause when you do what I said, you will run the starter directly from the battery and then it should turn over the engine.

And the relay at driverside shouldnt get to hot when cranking, maybe the starter is fried ?

Ok when you say to the engage s terminal you mean starter terminal were the 3 wires are.. ??

i see a thick one and 2 smaller thinner wires

bitchin_buick · 09-24-2009, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My1ThirdGen

i did bring the starter to Advanced auto had them test it..
No starter activity at all when i turn the key only things clicking is these on firewall..

I read thru the previous post quickly and may have missed someones comments, but in the picture above the relay on the right appears to be your >> fuel pump relay >> 20bucks. I changed mine.... That though wont solve your starter issues...

Theking · 09-25-2009, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My1ThirdGen

Ok when you say to the engage s terminal you mean starter terminal were the 3 wires are.. ??

i see a thick one and 2 smaller thinner wires

Thats the wrong wire to put another wire to.
The small terminal with only one cable running to it (should be purple)
That one is also 12volt (+) and it comes from the key ignition.

(There is no negative power cables connected to the starter, its grounded into the engine block (-) )

Apply 12volt + from battery to this and see what happens. (To terminal "S" see picture below.)
If the starter wont engage now, the starter is bad (remember to have key inserted and ignition ON..

Test that and return here with info. And remember to just touch the new (+) wire connected to the 1 cable terminal on the starter to make it turn, and when it have turned some rotations lift of the cable so it stops.

It should be running now

and just touch the new wire on the battery and it should start turning over.

EDIT: I made you a picture in photoshop to show wich terminal I ment

My1ThirdGen · 09-25-2009, 10:01 AM

OK the car starts the starter relay was shot funny it was brand new

now on to the next problem with the air cleaner off i have to fluff the gas to keep it running if i push the gas down once and start the car it runs for about 4 seconds
im thinking on replacing fuel pump.. what do you guys think.

And thanks to all for the Replies it was a big help on getting my sons first car running..

naf · 09-25-2009, 10:06 AM

Do not replace the fuel pump until you've connected a fuel pressure guage to it and verified that it is bad. Dropping that tank is not something to be considered lightly.

My1ThirdGen · 09-25-2009, 10:40 AM

is there an inline gauge i can attach like a carb car i have one on my mach 1 and i have an extra gauge...

Never tried dropping the tank on a 92 camaro ive dropped the fuel tank on my old 79 it was not that bad also my Monte SS is there any special things i need to know about this fuel tank...

scoyt · 09-25-2009, 11:33 AM

It may be easier to change the fuel filter first. Also check the distributor cap and make sure that there is not alot of build-up on the contacts, also check the rotor.

My1ThirdGen · 09-25-2009, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoyt

It may be easier to change the fuel filter first. Also check the distributor cap and make sure that there is not alot of build-up on the contacts, also check the rotor.

Replaced the fuel filter already i have tuneup parts wires plugs distro cap and rotor just never put em on because of the no idle problem maybe i should ...?

Theking · 09-25-2009, 11:45 AM

I might change my starter relay to.
Its the one behind kickpanel near the driverside feets you changed right ?

Im running a start button, cause this one (1) click problem only shows up sometimes for me.. Dont know why, but its only getting ~7Volts to the S terminal, have changed the ignition switch, new keys and ignition lock cylinder.
Tested wires etc. And the strange thing is that my problem only occours after a long time of driving, then it only clicks 1 time.
If i use the start button (connected to yellow, ignition on to a relay near battery, and directly from relay to batt -> starter enable (S) it starts right up..)

What can cause it to click sometimes when using the key and sometimes it works everytime ? Could it be a bad relay ? could a bad relay only put thru 7volt instead of 12 even if the battery is fully charged ?

And what item number for the starter relay ?

My1ThirdGen · 09-25-2009, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theking

I might change my starter relay to.
Its the one behind kickpanel near the driverside feets you changed right ?

Im running a start button, cause this one (1) click problem only shows up sometimes for me.. Dont know why, but its only getting ~7Volts to the S terminal, have changed the ignition switch, new keys and ignition lock cylinder.
Tested wires etc. And the strange thing is that my problem only occours after a long time of driving, then it only clicks 1 time.
If i use the start button (connected to yellow, ignition on to a relay near battery, and directly from relay to batt -> starter enable (S) it starts right up..)

What can cause it to click sometimes when using the key and sometimes it works everytime ? Could it be a bad relay ? could a bad relay only put thru 7volt instead of 12 even if the battery is fully charged ?

And what item number for the starter relay ?

Well the relay taht was bad was brand new its only a week old
that would just go to show ya that there are bad new products out ther..

what happens if you jump the 2 large wires with a paperclip on the socket were the relay pops in thats how i found out my brand new relay was bad..

heres the part i had to replace http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...AAMS_569157985___

naf · 09-25-2009, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theking

What can cause it to click sometimes when using the key and sometimes it works everytime ? Could it be a bad relay ? could a bad relay only put thru 7volt instead of 12 even if the battery is fully charged ?

Resistance will increase as the temperature of the circuit increases. When its hot it's less likely to pass enough current to start. It could be a bad relay but it could as likely be some bad wiring or a bad connection somewhere. A loose connection can cause this and the associated overheating at that loose connection can melt plastic and insulation. I'd carefully inspect the relay and its associated plug along with the wiring for signs of overheating. You've already replaced the ignition switch and know the switch pigtails are good AND secure? It can only get worse.

Theking · 09-25-2009, 01:04 PM

Ignition, key, switch and transmission wire are good, have dubbel checked them.
Brand new main power cables, battery - Block/head, battery-> starter, Alternator ->battery.

So the ingition parts (keys, switch etc) are correctly installed and fully working.

I havent checked the relay thou, I installed a hidden start button in the car, wich only works when the key is in and turned to ignition on. So nobody can use the button unless the correct VATS key is inserted.. So that way its safe..

What you mean by it can only be worse ?
I will remove the kickpanel and check the starter relay, but the strange thing is that it have happened sometimes when the car have been cold to.. But most often when its hot, I thought it was heatsoak for a long time, thats why I sheilded off all new wires with heatsocks, wrapped the starter etc with heat shield..

Its a brand new Delco, remy starter wich works great..

As said I will check the relay and change it either way I think.. cant cost many bucks..

Also, these 2 wires at the bottom of the picture, they are the fuselinks marked in the schematics right ? Problem is that I cant buy fusible links in sweden, no store in the whole country is selling them. I havent checked these 2 fuselinks yet, just thought of them now. Maybe they are getting "heatsoaked" and casing bad voltage to the purple wire and ignition... ?! :

Nvm the old starter, its a brand new one installed, and also brand new MAIN power cables, (thats an old picture)..
Also noticed today that I only had 11.88 Voltage at ignition [atleast I think it was that.. it was lover then the battery voltage atlease...] (yellow wire to stereo when ignition on) and the battery had 12.58Volt.
So there was some voltage loss even when the car was cold (havent been started when measured it).. Maybe it can be the fusible links in the picture above ? or is it a long reach ? (I can always start it thou with the startbutton, but it would be nice to solve the "main" problem to....)

The main power wires are good thou, its 2 AWg changed 7days ago.. maybe its those 2 small wires that isnt good?

Anyone care to link me to a store that sells fusiblelinks needed ?

Sorry My1ThirdGen for stealing your thread. But there is so much good info in here so it could both help you , me and others with similar problems

markc20 · 09-25-2009, 03:49 PM

That was it, the switch was bad. Once I bypassed it. Good to go. Thanks for the help!

Theking · 09-25-2009, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markc20

That was it, the switch was bad. Once I bypassed it. Good to go. Thanks for the help!

The ignition switch ? or what ?

My1ThirdGen · 09-26-2009, 10:33 AM

I tell ya the throttle body when applying gas sounds like a large vacum cleaner is that normal havent put the tuneup parts on yet was tinkering with it yesterday i will post my findings after tune up also is there a way to test the fuel pressure without purchasing a $40 gauge kit...

markc20 · 09-27-2009, 05:52 PM

Should have been more specific in my response. It was the clutch switch at the top that was pooched. Now I just have to be careful to have it out of gear or clutch in before starting...