ElectronicsNeed help wiring something up? Thinking of adding an electrical component to your car? Need help troubleshooting that wiring glitch?
Welcome to ThirdGen.org!
Welcome to ThirdGen.org.
You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, join the ThirdGen.org community today!
Ok let me just go over the history
I purchased a 92 rs 305 tbi car for his 15th birthday..
the batt went dead so we charged it last week and the car ran really bad
we had to keep tapping gas to keep it running.. weeks before it ran fine i figured critters got in the exhaust seeing as that it was getting hot from running the car we did whats is explained below
.
1: dropped the exhaust removed cat
2: Pulled the CTS sensor tried that same thing car still does not idle
3: installed new fuel filter
4: installed new TPS sensor
5: Replaced the IAC
6: Set the timing as stated to 0 and brought it up by 2
7: cleaned Throttle body and added hightest fuel
that didnt fix it the next day we tried again and the car would not start no turn over nothing i hear a click in the driverside firewall on one of the relays bolted to it i figured we killed the battery and or the starter so i brought both down to Advanced auto i purchased a battery and starter tested fine still the same thing nothing except a click when i turn key.
What i have done after having a dead key
1: bypassed Vats the key was reading 1.13 ohms got risistors at Radioshack and jumped orange covered wires with same 1.13 ohms
2: tested neutral safty switch
3: starter "had Advanced auto test before leaving there store"
4: replaced Battery
5: checked all connectors on coil and distro
any suggestions im lost
Thanks,,
This ad is not displayed to registered members. Register your free account today and become a member on ThirdGen!
Last edited by My1ThirdGen; 09-14-2009 at 05:45 PM.
Sponsored Links
Registered users do not see this ad. Click here to register for free!
Ok let me just go over the history
I purchased a 92 rs 305 tbi car for his 15th birthday..
the batt went dead so we charged it last week and the car ran really bad
we had to keep tapping gas to keep it running.. weeks before it ran fine i figured critters got in the exhaust seeing as that it was getting hot from running the car we did whats is explained below
.
1: dropped the exhaust removed cat
2: Pulled the CTS sensor tried that same thing car still does not idle
3: installed new fuel filter
4: installed new TPS sensor
5: Replaced the IAC
6: Set the timing as stated to 0 and brought it up by 2
7: cleaned Throttle body and added hightest fuel
that didnt fix it the next day we tried again and the car would not start no turn over nothing i hear a click in the driverside firewall on one of the relays bolted to it i figured we killed the battery and or the starter so i brought both down to Advanced auto i purchased a battery and starter tested fine still the same thing nothing except a click when i turn key.
What i have done after having a dead key
1: bypassed Vats the key was reading 1.13 ohms got risistors at Radioshack and jumped orange covered wires with same 1.13 ohms
2: tested neutral safty switch
3: starter "had Advanced auto test before leaving there store"
4: replaced Battery
5: checked all connectors on coil and distro
any suggestions im lost
Thanks,,
Did you ever get a solution to this problem? My 87 does the exact same thing.
is turning over now? and own your timing i set mine at 0degrees and it ran like crap i one to set it by ear now but i checked it with a light and its at 10 to 12 and does fine. is your fuel pump clicking on and you may want to replace your ignition control module mine keeps going out
is turning over now? and own your timing i set mine at 0degrees and it ran like crap i one to set it by ear now but i checked it with a light and its at 10 to 12 and does fine. is your fuel pump clicking on and you may want to replace your ignition control module mine keeps going out
Still dead key seems the fuel pump is running all the lights work just no ignition...
Sounds like the timing is off...do some more research as to finding the base timing for that particular year/setup...I know on mine I had to disconnect the brown wire above the heater blower motor on the passenger side under the hood, set the base timing, then shut the car off, reconnect the wire/harness clip, and then the car self adjusts the timing through the ecm
Sounds like the timing is off...do some more research as to finding the base timing for that particular year/setup...I know on mine I had to disconnect the brown wire above the heater blower motor on the passenger side under the hood, set the base timing, then shut the car off, reconnect the wire/harness clip, and then the car self adjusts the timing through the ecm
I definely know the timing is off as stated above i was in the process of adjusting it when i got the no crank when i turn the key issue..
my timing is set right now as i recall to 2 to the left of 0
You might have already checked this but just in case...It could be a simple bad ground to the motor or poor terminal connection>> I've had this happen to me on the motor side of things and like you said everything turns on but no crank...do you hear the solenoid on the starter click when you turn the key?
You might have already checked this but just in case...It could be a simple bad ground to the motor or poor terminal connection>> I've had this happen to me on the motor side of things and like you said everything turns on but no crank...do you hear the solenoid on the starter click when you turn the key?
i did bring the starter to Advanced auto had them test it..
No starter activity at all when i turn the key only things clicking is these on firewall..
Last edited by My1ThirdGen; 09-15-2009 at 07:22 PM.
could be your Ignition control module....these are known to go at times and would produce no activity from the starter but alowing all other electronics in the car to operate fine
very well could be...I've been tryin to hunt for yah on how to test it and found nothing....but I have found that when they do go people seems to have to replace them one after another due to the fact that the cheaper/generic ones bought from most auto parts store lack heat sink grease which makes them very susceptable to failure in the presence of heat and can cause an intermittent problem where the car begins to run worse, have a hard time starting when hot, or not start at all...I would suggest if replacing try to buy the higher end of brands such as accel which will be more likely to have the grease and last for you...
You have a bad ground to your starter somewhere. My car did the same thing and it was the negative ground that goes to the passenger exhaust manifold, thats all it was.
You have a bad ground to your starter somewhere. My car did the same thing and it was the negative ground that goes to the passenger exhaust manifold, thats all it was.
I will check the grounds again first thing in the morning i might spend a half day on the car tomorrow..
Last edited by My1ThirdGen; 09-15-2009 at 05:11 PM.
The ignition control module will have no effect on the starter motor.
The starter motor should be grounded to the engine block which has a large guage copper ground wire going from the pass side head to the firewall and another connected directly between the alt bracket and the neg post. Possible but not likely.
Have you verified that your starter motor is getting 12+ volts? You can run a meter between the positive tap on the starter to ground to check.
You can also jump that same positive terminal to the solenoid terminal on the starter motor (carefully) with a screwdriver to see if it turns over. A safer check is to run a jumper wire from the solenoid terminal to a 12volt source, a remote start switch, so to speak.
If these tests work, your starter and your battery are good and you're likely not getting 12 volts to the solenoid wire when key is turned to 'start'. Then you can chase it down towards your ignition switch.
First, though, I'd make sure you re-connected the solenoid wire to the correct terminal on the starter solenoid. There are two smaller terminals that look identical and it ain't going to start if it's connected to the dead one. Did it once myself...
__________________ "A man who voluntarily drives a car like that and still manages to maintain such impervious confidence that it will faithfully start the next time he turns that key is an encouragement for us all to take greater risks in life."
The ignition control module will have no effect on the starter motor.
The starter motor should be grounded to the engine block which has a large guage copper ground wire going from the pass side head to the firewall and another connected directly between the alt bracket and the neg post. Possible but not likely.
Have you verified that your starter motor is getting 12+ volts? You can run a meter between the positive tap on the starter to ground to check.
You can also jump that same positive terminal to the solenoid terminal on the starter motor (carefully) with a screwdriver to see if it turns over. A safer check is to run a jumper wire from the solenoid terminal to a 12volt source, a remote start switch, so to speak.
If these tests work, your starter and your battery are good and you're likely not getting 12 volts to the solenoid wire when key is turned to 'start'. Then you can chase it down towards your ignition switch.
First, though, I'd make sure you re-connected the solenoid wire to the correct terminal on the starter solenoid. There are two smaller terminals that look identical and it ain't going to start if it's connected to the dead one. Did it once myself...
Thanks for the input tomorrow will be another long Bowtie day..
and hopefully... if it was running like crap as the battery was dying then it was likely the fuel system losing pressure as the fuel pump voltage was dropping.
__________________ "A man who voluntarily drives a car like that and still manages to maintain such impervious confidence that it will faithfully start the next time he turns that key is an encouragement for us all to take greater risks in life."
and hopefully... if it was running like crap as the battery was dying then it was likely the fuel system losing pressure as the fuel pump voltage was dropping.
Ya know when i had it running like crap i was told to open the gas cap and man there was alot of air suction.. could well be
Same deal, purchased an 87 Z28 305 Carburated. Click heard (and felt) from iginition but starter will not function at all. When I run a remote start switch to it, turns over just fine. I will be watching closely as well.
markc: Have a look at your ignition switch, under the dash above the column. Your most likely cause is voltage drop to the solenoid, usually from a bad switch or pigtail at switch. You can check for low volts at solenoid by connecting a volt meter to the solenoid lead and reading the voltage when the key is turned to "start".
__________________ "A man who voluntarily drives a car like that and still manages to maintain such impervious confidence that it will faithfully start the next time he turns that key is an encouragement for us all to take greater risks in life."
1: bypassed Vats the key was reading 1.13 ohms got risistors at Radioshack and jumped orange covered wires with same 1.13 ohms
2: tested neutral safty switch
3: starter "had Advanced auto test before leaving there store"
4: replaced Battery
5: checked all connectors on coil and distro
any suggestions im lost
Thanks,,[/QUOTE]
the resistor value is too low. I'm sure you meant 1.13K ohms.
im not a meter wizard but tested the key it sayd 1.13 on my meter then tested the resister value to 1.13 not sure about 1.13k i need to brush up on my meter knowledge what i will do is run my meter test again and snap pics so you guys can see exactly what im doing or doing wrong
Last edited by My1ThirdGen; 09-20-2009 at 07:28 PM.
My 84 CCC'ed firebird is doing the same thing. I will be watching the thread and working on mine as well. Hope for all of us with this problem one of us gets it worked out!
Change the ignition switch in the steering column and see if that works. Check your grounds. (Like poeple above said.) Check your wires and make sure none are broken or melted. I know on TBI trucks, a bad oil sender can cause a no start because the computer thinks there's no oil pressure. Change battery cables, I have seen some inside the side post ends. Check your fuse links at the starter.
That's all I can think of right now. Also the relays in that picture earlier in the post one is for the fuel pump. (I know your fuel pump is running.) The other relay is for either A/C or for the blower motor.
__________________ I'm smarter than the average dumb ***.
Your key should be a number 15. Since you came up with 11300 ohms then your key is out of range for the computer. So you need to make the resistance 11800 ohms to make the ECM(computer) to think you have the right key. If you only put 11300 ohms, then your computer still thinks it's out of range.
That might be your problem.
I can't believe I missed that earlier.
__________________ I'm smarter than the average dumb ***.
Last edited by robotic_junky; 09-21-2009 at 03:52 AM.
Reason: bad grammar
check or wire around the VATS relay. It's a small relay behind the drivers kick panel. It'll have a large light yellow and large light green wire running to it along with the wires from the security module. Try it first with a meter(or test light) and check both large wires for power when you turn the key. The yellow one comes from the ignition switch and should have power only in the start position. The green will have power on it if the VATS system is working correctly. That green wire goes to the neutral safety switch in the console and comes back out as the pruple wire you'll find that goes to the "s" terminal on your starter solenoid. No 12 volts anywhere in that ckt and you get nothing for the starter to turn with. If the module is bad you can cut and connect those two wires together and it'll defeat the starter cut out. Good luck with it.....
Your key should be a number 15. Since you came up with 11300 ohms then your key is out of range for the computer. So you need to make the resistance 11800 ohms to make the ECM(computer) to think you have the right key. If you only put 11300 ohms, then your computer still thinks it's out of range.
That might be your problem.
I can't believe I missed that earlier.
Tried the resistors adding up to 1.18k ohms still nothing i havent tried ripping out all the negetive cables and replacing them yet tomorrow i will try that
check or wire around the VATS relay. It's a small relay behind the drivers kick panel. It'll have a large light yellow and large light green wire running to it along with the wires from the security module. Try it first with a meter(or test light) and check both large wires for power when you turn the key. The yellow one comes from the ignition switch and should have power only in the start position. The green will have power on it if the VATS system is working correctly. That green wire goes to the neutral safety switch in the console and comes back out as the pruple wire you'll find that goes to the "s" terminal on your starter solenoid. No 12 volts anywhere in that ckt and you get nothing for the starter to turn with. If the module is bad you can cut and connect those two wires together and it'll defeat the starter cut out. Good luck with it.....
Ok itried jumping those 2 wires the green and yellow and man my jumper started glowing... seems maybe the problem is down near starter i will dig in tomorrow for 5 hours on it ...
Your key should be a number 15. Since you came up with 11300 ohms then your key is out of range for the computer. So you need to make the resistance 11800 ohms to make the ECM(computer) to think you have the right key. If you only put 11300 ohms, then your computer still thinks it's out of range.
That might be your problem.
I can't believe I missed that earlier.
He measured 1.13 on his meter. This tells me it probably is 1.13K 0r 1130 ohms (key 5). Not sure how came up with 11800. To be 11300 the meter would have been 11.3 not 1.13.
He measured 1.13 on his meter. This tells me it probably is 1.13K 0r 1130 ohms (key 5). Not sure how came up with 11800. To be 11300 the meter would have been 11.3 not 1.13.
I measured the key with the meter set to 20 it did read 1.13 and the first set of resistors measured 1.13 with the meter set to 20 am I missing something... I did try 1.18 on resistors didn’t change anything Should the resistors be 1.13 or 1.18..??
He measured 1.13 on his meter. This tells me it probably is 1.13K 0r 1130 ohms (key 5). Not sure how came up with 11800. To be 11300 the meter would have been 11.3 not 1.13.
Ya, you're right. I was thinking it was 11300. So he should have 1130 ohms. Sorry.
Like someone else mentioned, the VATS module could be bad.
__________________ I'm smarter than the average dumb ***.
It is very easy to tell whether the problem is in the ignition circuitry or at the starter. No need to go dickering with the ignition switch, etc.
Connect a lead to the solenoid wire at the starter. It should read 0 volts with the key off or in 'run'. Have someone turn the key to start and it should read 12+ volts. If it doesn't the prob is in the ignition circuit. If it does the problem's the starter.
__________________ "A man who voluntarily drives a car like that and still manages to maintain such impervious confidence that it will faithfully start the next time he turns that key is an encouragement for us all to take greater risks in life."
Now with your problem you aren't getting anything? No cranking? Nothing?
Have you tried having the key in the on position, and jumping the starter?
I was so confused with my car. I had the same problem right after I swapped a carburated 350 into my 90 RS. I was filling up gas the one day, and when I went to go turn the key, nothing! I was so pissed. I thought maybe the bendix was stuck. So my dad tried hitting the starter to get it unstuck. He ended up cracking the solenoid casing on the starter. (It was ok cause I wanted to get a high torque starter anyways.) I installed the new starter and still nothing. So I was messing around with everything. I left the key in the on position and jumped the starter with a welding rod. Started right up!
I was told that the ignition switch in these cars are known to go out. My solution was bypassing the ignition switch. I installed a push button start. Starts up every time! No problem.
Now with your problem you aren't getting anything? No cranking? Nothing?
Have you tried having the key in the on position, and jumping the starter?
I was so confused with my car. I had the same problem right after I swapped a carburated 350 into my 90 RS. I was filling up gas the one day, and when I went to go turn the key, nothing! I was so pissed. I thought maybe the bendix was stuck. So my dad tried hitting the starter to get it unstuck. He ended up cracking the solenoid casing on the starter. (It was ok cause I wanted to get a high torque starter anyways.) I installed the new starter and still nothing. So I was messing around with everything. I left the key in the on position and jumped the starter with a welding rod. Started right up!
I was told that the ignition switch in these cars are known to go out. My solution was bypassing the ignition switch. I installed a push button start. Starts up every time! No problem.
Nope no cranking just a click and thats it...
Im going to run several tests today i will posts my findings..
i'm hoping its as simple as a ground or even ignition switch....
on the vats i think i read somewhere on here the key ohms can only be something like 50 to the good or 50 to the bad. I feel your pain with the key resistors im about to have to go through the same thing, i heard that after awhile the resistor in the key if it dosent fall out it burns out.
I have / had this same problem
I hear just one (1) click in the starter relay (driverside) down at the feets.
What I found out was the purple (engage) wire on starter didnt recive 12V when the click occured. What I did then was to run a new wire from solenoid engage directly up to battery (+) and touched the new wire to the battery + terminal and it started right up.
The one click problem could be due to low voltage to starter enable (on the solenoid, purple wire I think)
I have changed ignition switch, ignition lock cylinder, battery, main power wires (+ and ground) and still sometimes this problems occour...
What I did to "solve" this was running an button to ignition on and to a new relay wich goes directly from (+) on battery to starter enable (engage) and when the key wont start the car I just click this starter button, its hidden and it wont work if not the correct key is inserted and ignition is on. (so you cannot turn the starter if the key isnt in and "on")
So test that, take a new wire and run it from starter engage, and touch it on battery (+) terminal with your key in position on and see if it turns the starter.
I have / had this same problem
I hear just one (1) click in the starter relay (driverside) down at the feets.
What I found out was the purple (engage) wire on starter didnt recive 12V when the click occured. What I did then was to run a new wire from solenoid engage directly up to battery (+) and touched the new wire to the battery + terminal and it started right up.
The one click problem could be due to low voltage to starter enable (on the solenoid, purple wire I think)
I have changed ignition switch, ignition lock cylinder, battery, main power wires (+ and ground) and still sometimes this problems occour...
What I did to "solve" this was running an button to ignition on and to a new relay wich goes directly from (+) on battery to starter enable (engage) and when the key wont start the car I just click this starter button, its hidden and it wont work if not the correct key is inserted and ignition is on. (so you cannot turn the starter if the key isnt in and "on")
So test that, take a new wire and run it from starter engage, and touch it on battery (+) terminal with your key in position on and see if it turns the starter.
Get back with some info about it.
Ok today i finally got time to work on car tried cleaning all contacts from battery also the ground i tested the power down to starter with key on theres power there i tapped the pos and neg fields and herd the starter try to start it ingages with the key on and me tapping the two contacts together but does not start the car does the transmissions have some type of lockout that won't let it ingage the flywheel ?
at least im getting power to the starter when i turn the key one problem solved also the relay under driverside dash gets hot when i turn key that i replaced its brand new there has to be something after that relay thats causing it to heat up..
Last edited by My1ThirdGen; 09-24-2009 at 05:31 PM.
what i will do is run my meter test again and snap pics so you guys can see exactly what im doing or doing wrong 
