Engine SwapEverything about swapping an engine into your Third Gen.....be it V6, V8, LTX/LSX, crate engine, etc. Pictures, questions, answers, and work logs.
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I'm starting a new project for the Camaro this winter. Need to rebuild the engine because of a vibration problem and I'm using the opportunity to stroke it to a 383.
I am in process of getting some quotes together for the rebuild of the current motor. But I would like to know if there is any good crate motor company's that will deliver a warrantied, balanced and blueprinted motor without the intake, carb, water pumb, dist., and harmonic dampener. Basically I want to save all the stuff that I've already bought.
Remember to go faster and faster until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death!
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__________________ '84 Camaro YTG w/ 383 Cid, 9.8 CR; Forged Eagle Assembly, Ross Forged Racing Pistons; Comp Cam and Hydr. Roller lifter; Dart Pro Iron Eagle Heads: Air Gap Intake; 3.73 Auburn Limited Slip Diff. FlowMaster Muffler w/ Shortie Headers. TH-350 Built Trany Underneath B&M Mega-Shifter. Many Engine compartment Dress Up Mods. Edelbrock High Flow Water Pump w/ Flex-a-Lite Cooling Fan. Sponh Torque Arm, 2400 TCI stall convertor, MSD HEI Distributor and Fluid Dampener. www.chartermi.net
Remember...Go faster and faster until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death!
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jrmotorsportsltd.com has a cheap line that i purchased and am very pleased with what i got. it is everything u said u want but no warrantie. they do balance and blueprint em so... with that said i will let ya search some more
__________________ 1986 Camaro - 383/350 build in progress
2000 Taurus - Sound system (check out the custom setup on my cardomain site)
Cardomain Site : http://www.cardomain.com/profile/spartyon8
http://www.diabolicalperformance.com great peole and great crate engines. a few more months and ill be placing my order there. friend bought a shortblock from them and after about 3 months the berings spun and they paind for the shipping back to the shop and fixed it for free, like i said great service.
Enginefactory.com sells a complete turnkey crate motor. You might be able to work out something with them on parts. Heck, I'm sure if you mail them the parts you want to use, they'd be happy to install what you want. They balance, tune, blueprint, test run it, and video tape the build-up and test runs all in one package price.
Originally posted by brockrodgers Need to rebuild the engine because of a vibration problem and I'm using the opportunity to stroke it to a 383.
Not what you asked, but my vibration problems were caused by a bad torque converter. Hate for you to spend 4 grand on a stroker, put it back in and find out you have the same problem.
Can't say I've ever heard of a vibration problem that was caused by a worn out engine.
OK everyone, listen up good here.....i should start a thread about this elsewhere too.....
Golens engine service is a f*ckin hack shop.....they rebuilt my $15000 engine, and it smokes like a mother ****er, i dont know whether they gapped the rings wrong, ****ed up honing the bores etc......however, they are local in my area and there is alot of bad press about these guys......an individual who will remain unnamed that works for golens, told me they do about 5-6 warranty motors a week. Ive heard other horror stories from people online about this crap too.....chad golen is a retard and doesnt know what the hell hes doing....
just for the record the "rebuild" consisted of making the reliefs in my pistons bigger because he felt the valves were rubbing, all new bearings, polishing the crank, line boring the block, decking the heads (which i dont think he did) decking the block, honing the bores (which i think he did without a torque plate), re-assembly and jerking me around for more than a month (he told me a week and half to complete the job) it cost 1600 bucks.....if you want a 383, buy a gm one and build it up, or have a local race engine shop build it for you....if golens cant rebuild my engine right, im sure they cant build a quality crate motor (5-6 come back every week?)
BIB Thanks for the Golen history. I have found some local shops that are looking for some work. The first one is AutoForm they mainly specialize in fabrication of Viper performance parts but they also run a Racing Suff business. The other company is Baker they do a lot of special application business.
Two reasons for the pull. I've replaced the Torque Convertor already.
#1-"Maybe I put a 400 crank in there, to suprise ya," is what my previous engine builder said. He's not sure any more and we have always assumed an internally balanced assembly. I will not be having him do it again.
#2-One time while transferring the cars weight to the jack stand one of them broke and the car fell on to the jack. The oil pan dent interfered with the crank and I had to pull the dent out and patch it up with some fancy JB welding. No vibration or issues 3 years ago but it seem like it has gotten worse since then.
__________________ '84 Camaro YTG w/ 383 Cid, 9.8 CR; Forged Eagle Assembly, Ross Forged Racing Pistons; Comp Cam and Hydr. Roller lifter; Dart Pro Iron Eagle Heads: Air Gap Intake; 3.73 Auburn Limited Slip Diff. FlowMaster Muffler w/ Shortie Headers. TH-350 Built Trany Underneath B&M Mega-Shifter. Many Engine compartment Dress Up Mods. Edelbrock High Flow Water Pump w/ Flex-a-Lite Cooling Fan. Sponh Torque Arm, 2400 TCI stall convertor, MSD HEI Distributor and Fluid Dampener. www.chartermi.net
Remember...Go faster and faster until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death!
My local shop quoted me $1700 for a 383 short block optimized for my 58cc aluminum heads and built to be street legal pushing 400HP/TQ in CA on a 1988 Firebird.
There's no exhange on that price, they supply all parts in the short block, including camshaft and lifters, roller rockers, etc...
That engine is balanced and blueprinted,...they claimed it would be capable of revving 9000RPM without damage (although since it's a stroker motor, that didn't make sense to me...didn't know they COULD rev past 7500...lol)
They would warranty the short block for 6 months.
I think I'm going to go for it. I kind've think I'll be pushing more than 400HP/TQ at the flywheel though. My heads are 2.02/1.90 ported and polished with 58cc chambers. The compression will end up being near 10.5 with their short block...and I'm going to be custom tuning my PROM on a Speed Density TPI...sounds like more than 400s to me...
dude stroker motors are nice, and with the parts i have in mine in theory it could rev to 9000 before the bottom end let go....however its limited by the cam and valve train. it floats the valves around 7500rpm......but in any case revving any small block to 9000 rpm with parts that werent built for racing only is pretty close to impossible. besides if it did really rev that high it would make alot more than 400hp (my motor makes way more than that and it peaks at 7000) the stroker is a great motor overall though
lol, noooooo no tpi here, read my signature and check out my page....its carbureted with a 750 race demon on a victor JR manifold. a tpi motor would never get that high in a million years
Originally posted by 383backinblack lol, noooooo no tpi here, read my signature and check out my page....its carbureted with a 750 race demon on a victor JR manifold. a tpi motor would never get that high in a million years
lol...I thought so...
I'm still crazy, but this doesnt prove it!
Too bad the 1988 didn't have a carbed engine... to pass smog here in CA I have to keep it TPI. I'm hoping for a powerband peak at 6500 or so with SD TPI... So at least the motor wont be stressing much at its peak, and missing a shift (althought it's an AT...lol) wont be catastrophic.
Quote:
Originally posted by brockrodgers 1700 doesn't sound too bad. Does that include any breaking in or dyno testing? How about disassembly or inspection charges?
$1700 was for just the short block. No dyno or break in. But I want to do the break in myself anyway.
Dissasembly or inspection? They're supplying all the parts. They wont be disassembling anything. Just prepping a good 4BM block and putting in all new performance internals...
Their idea of a short block is everything from the bare block, to the push rods. This includes a performance (smog legal) camshaft.
i dont really know anything about the letter of the law in cali so im not sure....but i know how we do things up here in mass.....
there is no way in HELL my car would ever pass emissions.....i just dont bother getting it inspected, cause its just gonna fail anyways.....heres why
inspection: $35 (whether you fail or not)
fine for not
having a sticker: $50
and its only a CHANCE that you will get caught without it, if you get it inspected you are going to pay.
im not really big on following the rules anyways lol in case you couldnt tell.
However, if you wanna pass emissions (wont help for visual ****) put about a tenth of a tank of methanol in with your gas......it should blow clean. it might not run great though. Ive also heard you can do the same thing with drygas but that sounds a little scarier. or you could just run your car on methanol, it will burn real clean...i was actually toying with that idea too hehe cause then i can keep my 11.5:1 compression AND get a blower
The methanol thing makes sense because they're looking for hydrocarbons, not alcohol...
How about I pour a couple bottles of Everclear into the tank? lol...
Thanks for the tip...I wasn't aware of that smog cheat...I had already planned these:
- A seperate exhaust system that is smog legal and has tiny inconcievable holes in strategic places to allow the gases to escape before the sniffer at the tailpipes.
- A custom PROM for a leaner mixture (within reason)
Now I can add the methanol to the list...
In CA, if you don't pass emmissions every two years...you cannot register your car as operating, and you wont get your registration stickers.
People in CA get pulled over once or twice a month easily for not having up to date stickers. My friend has gotten pulled over 3 times a week for it! lol
Stroker Motor has a 383 longblock, 425 HP, 4 bolt manins, SCAT crank,10.3 compression ,4340 steel 5.7" rods,AFR 195cc heads with 2.02/1.60 valves, roller tip rockers, TrickFlow pushrods, lunati cam, Melling oil pump and Milodon oil pan with damper and flexplate for $3995 outright....that's a good motor for that!
thats real short money for a longblock with AFR heads on it, the heads alone are well over 1k. that sounds like a pretty good deal, and looks like a nice motor.
Strokermotor.com seems pretty decent. Not too sure about the other one, just perception at this point though.
When searching for a balanced assembly, do they still require a 400 externally balanced flex plate and dampener. At Strokermotor they are advertising a balanced assembly to +/- 1.0 grams but with external balanced 400 flexplate and dampner. It seems like I once heard that +/- 0.5 would be better which makes sense. But at what point is the externally balanced dampener and flexplate from a 400 crank required? I am interested in using my current Fluid dampener and SFI approved flexplate that I just bought. No sense in buying new if I don’t need it.
Not sure if the cheap price reflectes the typical balanced and blue printed warrantied assembly. The only warranty offered appeared on parts from the manufacture if offered.
__________________ '84 Camaro YTG w/ 383 Cid, 9.8 CR; Forged Eagle Assembly, Ross Forged Racing Pistons; Comp Cam and Hydr. Roller lifter; Dart Pro Iron Eagle Heads: Air Gap Intake; 3.73 Auburn Limited Slip Diff. FlowMaster Muffler w/ Shortie Headers. TH-350 Built Trany Underneath B&M Mega-Shifter. Many Engine compartment Dress Up Mods. Edelbrock High Flow Water Pump w/ Flex-a-Lite Cooling Fan. Sponh Torque Arm, 2400 TCI stall convertor, MSD HEI Distributor and Fluid Dampener. www.chartermi.net
Remember...Go faster and faster until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death!
+/- 1.0 gram for an internally balanced rotating assembly isnt really that great. A really good race engine shop will usually balance to within a fraction of that, because at high RPM that 1 gram could become incredible force on the assembly. If the setup is externally balanced its not a great and viable high performance engine.....pay more money and get an engine thats internally balanced.
Originally posted by 88ViperKiller I thought a 383 stroker would always require a 400 crank pulley? If you go any smaller, wouldn't the thing rattle itself to death pretty quick?
no because for the most part 383's arent made that way anymore....the 383 was invented by putting a 400 crank in a 350 block and boring it .030 over. however, the problem was the 400 was externally balanced (special flywheel and balancer) which a bonehead way to build a motor.
fast forward to the present....400 blocks and, and therefore all the parts that go inside them like cranks are becoming very very scarce (except aftermarket ones).....
therefore the 383 stroker parts are usually purpose built after market parts these days (which is much better anyways) and they are or should be internally balanced which is much much better for a high performance motor. like my motor for example, i have a regular sfi approved fluid stainless fluid damper, not a 400 balancer, and i have a ram billet flywheel that comes already balanced...my entire rotating assembly is internally dynamically (spun) balanced.
My previous engine builder may have used that old philosphy. When I pull the engine out what is a good way to find out for sure? Maybe I can sell it back to him or another person that is willing to balance it externally.
__________________ '84 Camaro YTG w/ 383 Cid, 9.8 CR; Forged Eagle Assembly, Ross Forged Racing Pistons; Comp Cam and Hydr. Roller lifter; Dart Pro Iron Eagle Heads: Air Gap Intake; 3.73 Auburn Limited Slip Diff. FlowMaster Muffler w/ Shortie Headers. TH-350 Built Trany Underneath B&M Mega-Shifter. Many Engine compartment Dress Up Mods. Edelbrock High Flow Water Pump w/ Flex-a-Lite Cooling Fan. Sponh Torque Arm, 2400 TCI stall convertor, MSD HEI Distributor and Fluid Dampener. www.chartermi.net
Remember...Go faster and faster until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death!
<b>when alcohol burns it produces carbon dioxide and water vapor hehe thats it</b>
Alchohol also burns twice as fast as gasoline. for instance if you ran gas then suddenly switched to alchohol you would need to double your jet size to keep it from leaning out. adding a little alchohol to the tank never hurt however, and would help you pass emmisions. theres some stuff called "emmisions passer" and its just de-natured alchohol in a bottle. a few of those and no more smoke... and you should also pass emmisions too.
alcohol does not burn twice as fast as gasoline does......
the reason that you need to double the jet size (or around that anyways) is because the stoichiometric air fuel ratio for gasoline is around 14, and for alcohol its around 7. therefore the ratio of air to fuel for the ideal mixture of alchohol is half what it is for gasoline, hence you burn twice as much alcohol in a given motor.
stoichiometric ratios indicate the ideal ratio of air/fuel so that all the fuel will be consumed in the combustion process.
if alcohol burned twice as fast as gas did, it wouldnt be used as a racing fuel because it would be more prone to detonation than gasoline. also, using that reasoning that alchohol burns twice as fast therefore you need twice as much of it, would also mean that engine was turning over twice as fast to produce the same power....doesnt really work that way
So what is the big benefit of alcohol? If the stoichiometric is twice as high (looking at the gas side), you need to double your gas tank size for the same amount of fuel...what's the gain?
Does it burn hotter? more expansive?
I've never looked into alcohol and why it's so much better...someone enlighten me?
__________________ 1988 Firebird Base Model waiting for her 383TPI
- 200 lbs of weight reduction
- Bought TPI and heads...needs short block
methanol doesnt detonate (or at least in theory) unless the conditions are immensely severe....more compression, more timing, more power.....or more of all of those with a blower. thats why alky motors can run 15:1 compression and still have a blower with massive boost. people claim that alcohol is 125 octane, but in theory alcohol does not have an octane rating because its not gasoline and if it did have an anti knock number it would be far higher than 125
the race motor in our truck is a blown alcohol injected 482 chevy with an 8-71 blower, makes about 1400hp right now...but thats gonna change, it needs a different cam and some bigger dome pistons to get like 13-14:1 compression and make some real power.
alcohol motors have much smaller radiators in most cases because the alcohol has a large cooling effect on the motor especially when you run it rich.
so you can just do things to make power with alcohol that you cant do with gasoline
Originally posted by 383backinblack the race motor in our truck is a blown alcohol injected 482 chevy with an 8-71 blower, makes about 1400hp right now...but thats gonna change, it needs a different cam and some bigger dome pistons to get like 13-14:1 compression and make some real power.
1400HP isn't real power any more? Dang I am behind...
Thanks for the explanation! Appreciate it
__________________ 1988 Firebird Base Model waiting for her 383TPI
- 200 lbs of weight reduction
- Bought TPI and heads...needs short block
lol well not for what we're doin....the "truck" is the boston big shot/towasaurus wrex monster truck....the guys we're racing are putting out over 2000hp, in fact the motor that was in bigfoot 14 when we were in PA for pro MT was supposedly dynoed at 2750hp:hail: needless to say as much as we love dan runte and his truck, and eric tack in the mack tools BF they beat our asses along with raminator and rammunition.
i know what you mean though i kinda get weirded out when im trying to squeeze more power out of that thing, cause it already has waaaay more power than my car does lol
there are alot of estimates on how much power top fuel cars make, its somewhere between 5500 and 8000hp the dont know cause they cant dyno the motors because they break the dyno:hail:
im not sure about the solid thing, but i think they have 17:1 compression or more, i think its more impressive that the motors are limited to 500ci. thats sick pro mod cars run 6's and are 800+ ci, but dont use anywhere near as much nitro
i think i get you now....you mean if you have 15 gallons in your tank you only gonna get half as far as you would with gas.
i really thought you were trying to say the burn rate of alky was twice as fast hehe. im not sure exactly what the burn rate is but im pretty sure its alot slower than gas
yeah im sure some people will chime in but if you ask on the tpi board. The long runner likes to make good low end torque and now high end hp. Id go with a stealth ram or something. They make good torque down low and good high end hp.
GM is now selling the 383 in parts and if I'm not mistaking a short block as well. 4.00 bore and a 3.80 forged crank. I f you want your warranty that is the only way to go for the price.....
__________________ 1989 Turbo Trans Am #656
SOLD!
Best Time(old combo):12.72@114mph,@ 18psi with a horrible 2.15 60'.
I dont have the exact numbers but it was in car craft or chp about 2 months ago. You can get a ZZ partial engine(short block) for less than 1800 so it couldn't be much more.
__________________ 1989 Turbo Trans Am #656
SOLD!
Best Time(old combo):12.72@114mph,@ 18psi with a horrible 2.15 60'.
383backinblack, I was wondering what you car runs in the 1/4. It seems to be a very good combo depending on the cam. Just curious what type of times you are running. Sorry about this being off topic. Thanks
Not to get too far off the subject, but, Has enyone heard of pulling the pan off and inspecting the bottom end for damage and to determine if the crank is a 400 without actually lifting the motor? It looks tough to me.
__________________ '84 Camaro YTG w/ 383 Cid, 9.8 CR; Forged Eagle Assembly, Ross Forged Racing Pistons; Comp Cam and Hydr. Roller lifter; Dart Pro Iron Eagle Heads: Air Gap Intake; 3.73 Auburn Limited Slip Diff. FlowMaster Muffler w/ Shortie Headers. TH-350 Built Trany Underneath B&M Mega-Shifter. Many Engine compartment Dress Up Mods. Edelbrock High Flow Water Pump w/ Flex-a-Lite Cooling Fan. Sponh Torque Arm, 2400 TCI stall convertor, MSD HEI Distributor and Fluid Dampener. www.chartermi.net
Remember...Go faster and faster until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death!
Stroker Motor has a 383 longblock, 425 HP, 4 bolt manins, SCAT crank,10.3 compression ,4340 steel 5.7" rods,AFR 195cc heads with 2.02/1.60 valves, roller tip rockers, TrickFlow pushrods, lunati cam, Melling oil pump and Milodon oil pan with damper and flexplate for $3995 outright....that's a good motor for that!
yeah..if you dont mind waiting over 300 days for it to be built and shipped! Go with StokerMotor.com...NOT!
