Questions about smog laws? - Page 3 - Engine Swap - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

hoogabooga · 06-02-2006, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by five7kid

You can put in an aftermarket engine as long as it was built as a replacement for your application. There have been reports of total jerks getting anal with the inspection and failing a swap because the casting date is before the chassis manufacturing date (year), but I'm sure there's more to the story of those instances.

As for "parts", they have to be service replacement parts (example: EGR valves), or certified replacements (such as headers). You can't expect to put a carb'd crate motor in an '89 chassis with long-tube headers, for instance, even if it can "pass" the sniffer test.

It is amazing that they will fail a car for an unapprooved engine swap but pass a stock smokebomb. Anything pre- 96 only has to pass a visual in nc. Thankfully in my county there never was emissions, just safety. lights, horn, tires, get a sticker.

1991L98G92 · 06-03-2006, 12:59 AM

I can't believe it either. A car could come in with no brakes, steering shot, tires with cords showing, but hey, it passed smog. California made a mistake getting rid of the safety inspection.

five7kid · 06-06-2006, 01:11 PM

You show up in Colorado with a car with no brakes, steering shot, & tires with cords showing, and they'll send you home without running it.

vorgath · 06-08-2006, 01:04 AM

Not an engine swap question but ....

What's the rules regarding getting a new cat ? I need to pass the smog check this year, and I know my cat won't let me pass, that thing is old and stuck and I mean STUCK. Can I replace it with any aftermarket cat as long as it doesn't have the "legal for off roading only and never to be used on the highway in California" mark ?

five7kid · 06-08-2006, 10:13 AM

It needs to be one for you application. The direct-fit replacement ones are usually the easiest, and in the long run, the cheapest to install. You can use a universal-replacement, but it still has to be the right type - in our case, with the A.I.R. tube.

zstalker · 06-08-2006, 09:25 PM

...yeah, that's my understanding too. I'm an inspector in Utah, and if you replace your cat, it has to be a NEW one, and it has to be the same type (oxidation cat, 2-way cat, 3-way cat, AIR, non-AIR, whatever), but aside from the AIR, it would be almost completely impossible to tell if it's got the right junk on the inside. I agree that a direct-replacement would probably be the cheapest and easiest, but if you're going for more performance, high-flow cats are available too...

The rule is, it's got to have the same type, and if I inspect a car that requires them,a nd doesn't have them, when it comes back with junkyard cats on it, it still fails......so (I'm not telling you to do this, of course) if your cats are bad, and you get junkyard ones, put them in place before you get it inspected at all
~Erik~

five7kid · 06-08-2006, 10:23 PM

About all you'll find in aftermarket replacement cats these days are high-flow. Including direct fit.

1991L98G92 · 06-11-2006, 12:44 PM

California is looking to pass a law that when a CAT is replaced a sticker would be put in the engine compartment. The idea behind it, is to keep mechanics from replacing the CAT for a problem they can't find or don't want to go thru the hassle of diagnosing. I doubt all aftermarket CAT's are high flow. The problem with high flow is not creating enough back pressure for EGR operation. We install aftermarket CAT's approved by C.A.R.B. which would make it for off road use only.

Hotdogstand · 06-15-2006, 10:42 PM

I love how gearheads are always negatively affected by the whines and complaints of special interests lobbyist. If we held more political sway, these wouldn't be so much of an issue. Someone should claim selling lawn fertilizer is destructive to dragstrips and have it banned.

vorgath · 06-19-2006, 12:35 AM

Now a guy at work, claims this (and I disagree with him):

Any car can have dual exhaust, as long as it's CARB headers, cats, and has an H or X pipe. And he's talking about CA, saying to go online and find out the proper codes of some kind, penal codes something like that.

I told him, if so, all ThirdGen owners would be running duals.

However is there anyway, to run some kind of duals, smog legal ? Like a dual in dual out cat converter ?

87CamaroMan · 11-13-2006, 03:10 PM

Also in PA if your car is pre-1977 or any type of R title you are emmisions exempt.

five7kid · 11-13-2006, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorgath

Now a guy at work, claims this (and I disagree with him):

Any car can have dual exhaust, as long as it's CARB headers, cats, and has an H or X pipe. And he's talking about CA, saying to go online and find out the proper codes of some kind, penal codes something like that.

I told him, if so, all ThirdGen owners would be running duals.

However is there anyway, to run some kind of duals, smog legal ? Like a dual in dual out cat converter ?

Anything after the cat(s) is fair game. If you had dual cats, you could run dual exhaust after them. However, the cats have to be in the factory location. And, as stated, everything before them has to be C.A.R.B. certified (in CA)/certified replacement. And, in CA you'd probably get challenged for having dual cats on an application that didn't have dual cats offered as a factory option.

Except for CA, which is allowed to impose stricter requirements, all of these laws are federal. It's enforcement that is (typically) local or state. Even in non-emissions testing or inspection areas, a repair shop can be heavily fined for removing emissions-related equipment.

mxcrazed · 04-08-2007, 12:04 PM

what about registering your car as a hot rod doesnt that mean that it has a non factory engine option and what ever happened to paying the guy off at the guy at the garage to put another car on the sniffer or just knowing him

five7kid · 04-08-2007, 06:32 PM

Depends where you live. "Hot rod" isn't a common designation. Again according to federal law, it doesn't matter - it needs to conform with the original requirements or to a later model.

Being able to find someone willing to have their palms greased is a matter of both of you being willing to risk the fines possible due to such activity.

87 formy · 04-09-2007, 07:24 PM

I read earlier in this thread someone said something about not being allowed to swap larger engines in cars than they originally came with. Would this mean that if my car came with a 5.0, that I wouldn't be able to swap to a 5.7 (LS1) into it? If so, are there any ways around this?

Kevin91Z · 04-09-2007, 11:26 PM

You can legally swap any engine in the same engine family. For instance, a 305 can be replaced with a 350 because they're both small block chevy's, and a 350 was an option in an f-body. If you swap in an LT1 or an LS1 into your thirdgen, then you would need to take it to a smog referee and have it certified, because you swapped in an engine that did not come in that year f-body. Also keep in mind, if you swap in a newer engine, you must swap EVERYTHING that goes with that engine. You cannot swap some of the parts and leave others out. You also cannot swap in an engine from a truck into a car, as trucks are not as strict with smog as cars are. Lastly, you cannot swap an older engine into a newer car. You must swap an engine from the same year or newer than your car.

87 formy · 04-10-2007, 10:16 AM

Thank you Kevin, thats exactly what I wanted to hear! Now that that's cleared up I guess I need to get a job and start saving for a donor car

five7kid · 04-10-2007, 11:47 AM

Just to clarify, a 350 would work for you because your car is '87 model year. Which just happens to be the first year 350's were available. '82-'86 3rd gens would have to do the "motor change" referee thing in California, because you would have to put in a complete 350 TPI system in order to be "legal". A 350 crossfire, carb, or TBI wouldn't cut it.

Kevin91Z · 04-11-2007, 12:17 AM

Technically you couldnt use a 350 carb, TBI, or CFI, but since a 305 and a 350 all look the same on the outside....

As long as you dont tell the smog referee, he wont notice.

However, if you have an 82-85 thirdgen you would want to use an engine from those same years (or maybe '81 too?) or newer, as before then, the oil dipstick was on the driver's side. That's a clear giveaway you've swapped the engine. Also, those of you with '87 and newer engines, you most definitely want to spend the money to get a roller engine block and camshaft. Its worth the extra money, trust me.

87 formy · 04-11-2007, 01:48 PM

I don't know if you guys picked up on it, but I forgot to mention I live in Jersey. I was talking about this post which I believe is talking about NJ laws (If they're any different).

Quote:

Originally Posted by demonchild

a stock ls1 would work but a ram jet 502 with 502 + horspower wouldnt. basically they dont allow for bigger engine because of saftey issues with the frame. you can use the smog equipment and induction that comes witht the ls1

I bolded the part that was worrying me. I just wanted to make sure if me being in NJ changed anything. So, to sum it all up, if I throw in an LS1 along with all of the smog equipment, will I run into any problems getting it certified

five7kid · 04-11-2007, 02:04 PM

The intent of the thread was to address emissions laws in general. Specific state laws may get answered if someone from that state can speak knowledgeably.

You can also try posting such questions on your regional forum.

I've never heard of a problem getting a stock LS1 swap (properly executed, of course) through emissions inspection or testing.

shootryan · 06-14-2007, 08:17 AM

ok so i just bought an 85 firebird (2.8) with intentions to put a 350 in it. this is a first time swap for me. i live in st louis mo. do i have to have this swap approved before i do it? what will it take for it to become emissions legal? i plan on finding a donor car and taking all of the components that came from the factory and transplanting those into my car. let me know any precautions

five7kid · 06-14-2007, 09:57 AM

Do you know what they do for emissions inspection or testing in your area? That's the bottom line.

As long as your donor car is model year 1985 or later, and you take the whole engine with all of the attachments with it, and any replacements (like headers) are certified replacements, you shouldn't have any problems getting it through. California is the only place I know that makes you go through a "motor change" inspection process.

shootryan · 06-14-2007, 10:56 AM

when you say later, do you mean older or newer?

86WS6 · 08-31-2007, 11:22 PM

This is not a 3rd gen, but some of the principles are the same. We live in North Carolina. Some counties do emissions testing and some don't. All counties do a visual inspection. I have 1987 Dodge Ramcharger AW-150 with 318 lean burn. The lean burn messed up and blowed holes in 4 of the pistons. I wanted to eliminate the lean burn, as everyone including the Chrysler rep said they are nothing but trouble. I found a wrecked 1985 D-250 with a 360 engine. Both the 318 and the 360 are small blocks, and look similiar just like Chevy small blocks. There is no difference between the wiring and emissions from a 1985 360 and a 1987 360. I used the 360 engine as a core, and got a rebuild 30 over Helsco engine with a high torque cam from NAPA. Removed the lean burn and wiring harness from my truck, and installed the 360 wiring harness of of the 85, which uses the old style electronic ignition which mounts on the firewall, only I got a new distributor and control box from Mopar Performance. Reassembled everything including the emissions back on the 360 and connected to the 318 exhaust system through the original cat. Used a Edelbrock replacement carburator for the 360 which is actually a q-jet. Now the emissions stuff. The truck passed NC inspections for visual in our county because it looks stock. NC does not do the tail pipe test on anything older than 1996. Just for kicks we had the old girl tail pipe tested just to see what it was doing, and it passed for the application and year model. We also had her dyno test and she is pulling 330 hp and 385 foot lbs torque. Charles

exktm525 · 10-17-2007, 05:10 PM

California is a hard place for hot rodders.

Kevin91Z · 10-17-2007, 11:56 PM

Its harder than other states, but we have smog-legal thirdgens here in our SoCal club that beat the pants off cars in other states with "all that smog crap" removed.