Engine SwapEverything about swapping an engine into your Third Gen.....be it V6, V8, LTX/LSX, crate engine, etc. Pictures, questions, answers, and work logs.
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This kid who went to my highschool has a brother that owns a shop called Eve's Customs and he told me that they've done it before. Now the interesting thing about it is that he said it pulled harder than a camaro that they also did with a ls1 in it.
Originally posted by silverbulletZ28 Now the interesting thing about it is that he said it pulled harder than a camaro that they also did with a ls1 in it.
Thats because their butt dynos were not calibrated with track times.
__________________ 1977 T/A - sold
1985 Firebird - sold
1994 Camaro - sold
1978 Formula - 400 --> 463 beast winter buildup
1987 T/A - LB9 former dd project, make an offer
Ya it sounded a little crazy to me. I just wanted to here somebody elses input. The only real decission i have to make is a 327 or ls1. The ls1 is kind of expensive and a bad *** 327 would be a little more affordable. If i did the 327 i could keep the 700 r4. Also ive seen some affordable listings for 327s and my buddy has a 327 vette motor that i might end up using. I don't know i just want to do something different than everyone else.
It has been done to a 4'th gen. Goto this site to see some pics: http://www.hpsalvage.com/ It's not worth it anymore since the LS1 has gone down in price alot over the past few years.
Originally posted by leeperryracing 2x the money for caddy swap=about 1/2 the hp/tq rating of the LS1.
I agree the swap would be insanely difficult and cost way more than any LS1 swap.
But the 32V Northstar engines are hardly "dogs" by any means. Last I read, they're rated from 275-300 HP...and 300 ftlbs of tQ...and if you ever ran up against one, you'd know.
Never seen an unmodified LS1 that cranks out 550-600 HP......
Originally posted by Confuzed1 I agree the swap would be insanely difficult and cost way more than any LS1 swap.
But the 32V Northstar engines are hardly "dogs" by any means. Last I read, they're rated from 275-300 HP...and 300 ftlbs of tQ...and if you ever ran up against one, you'd know.
Never seen an unmodified LS1 that cranks out 550-600 HP......
I think he is talking about various points in the power curve vs peak numbers alone. I bet the LS1 makes twice as much power between 1000 and 3000 RPM. You are right in the fact that peak values for both motors are within 50 hp or so. The northstar is a really good motor.
Considering what you see people considering on this forum, and what all that engine has included with it (would still need ECM & harness, and figure out the tranny), it doesn't sound so out of line to me.
I think pricewise, difficulty, availability, and mod wise ls1 is better in all four catagories. Its hard to find heads and cams packages for a northstar engine, not to mention the price and difficulty to install. Plus as everyone mentioned before the difficulty of swapping the motor in. Not to say that the Northstar motor is a bad motor its just not worth a swap IMO. If you really want to go DOHC and willing to spend alot of money, go with a ZR1.
Well if by routine, you mean seeing them everywhere, then definatly not. I personally have never seen one other than mine in real life. They may seem everywhere because alot of people talk about them on these forums. Plus its one of the few swaps that require little fabrication, me personally Im 18 and never had any real automotive experience except replacin an alternator, water pump, and catylitic converter before this project, and Im doin fine, granite Ive learned quite a bit since I started.
In other words, don't take my "routine" comment too seriously.
In fact, not nearly as seriously as your response would indicate you did.
Some people try too hard to be "unique". Pontiac 455, Buick 455, Olds 455, Buick 231, Pontiac 350, Olds 350, Pontiac 400, BBC, etc., etc., etc., have all been "discussed" at one time or another. My car is "unique", because nobody has a combo quite like mine, although a bunch of people have pieces of the combo; and, it's unique because nobody else owns my car.
This Northstar discussion is just another one of the same kind - "I want to be different". What most people won't admit, though, is "different" is often just code for "more expensive with disappointing results".
The LS1 is a great engine and makes a great car. I'm not advocating the Northstar crate over the LS1, I'm just allowing people the latitude to be "different".
And, perhaps, giving them a little rope in the process...
And, perhaps, giving them a little rope in the process...
just enough to hang themselves by.... lol.
theres innovative, and theres diffrent.
the diffrence between the two, is one works better, the other is just diffrent for the sake of being diffrent.
i like innovative stuff. when i was younger i did stuff to be diffrent. all in all, it sucked and if i could go back and do it again, the majority of my "diffrent" stuff wouldnt have been done.
Originally posted by 92CamaroLS1 ...just trying to convince myself that Im going to be the only third gen ls1 in the area for a while...
I'll admit I haven't seen one (at least that I'm aware) out at the track. And, I do watch for 3rd gens.
The latest "different" and "interesting" one I saw and talked to the owner about was a TTA. He had been racing a turbo Sunfire with some measure of success. He hadn't done anything to the TTA yet, but said it was faster and more consistent than the Sunfire - which ran right about the same times as my Camaro.
Other "different" 3rd gens I've seen at the track:
Buick 455 - ran a couple tenths faster than my Camaro.
5-speed V6 - runs a couple tenths slower than my Camaro (I'm a lot more impressed with it than I am with the Buick version).
One with a glass pack sticking out the side behind the right front wheel - apparently he cut the y-pipe at the bend and stuck the GP on there. Slower than the V6 car, IIRC.
Tubed, full cage, nitrous 350 - runs low 10's up here.
Stock L98 t-top car a couple of years ago with nothing but used circle track tires on the rear and a healthy shot of nitrous - ran 13 flat up here, he didn't even show up with a helmet. No subframe connectors, no DS loop - haven't seen him lately. Perhaps not really different or innovative, but he was scarey.
O yea, there are a few really nice thirdgens even in my lil town of 12k people. My friends got black thirdgen like mine(forgot exactly what year) with a zz4 crate motor, pretty quick. Theres 2 other third gens apperently owned by a husband and wife, really clean sound bad ***, not sure whats done to them. Also there's a mint black TPI camaro that apperently only has heads and cam, but sounds like a big block, not sure whats goin on there. All are cool and different, but they dont have ls1's...
I really like those Northstar motors. And I really like the old school look they have with plugs going in the top of the heads. Old school looks, high tech design, very cool contrast there. Sure, a stock LS1 swap would be the better runner, but I'd bet my house that the stock Northstar swapped into a 3rd gen would eat an LB9's lunch! Might even chew up a bone stock L98 too.
If only I had the money to burn and the time..................Hell, I'm having enough trouble financing a plain old 383 stroker so I know that thing's out of my league.
I'm sure this has been done, but I also think the Northstar would be a great choice for an old '32 F*rd street rod and would look absolutely perfect under the hood of one.
Originally posted by five7kid
Some people try too hard to be "unique". Pontiac 455, Buick 455, Olds 455, Buick 231, Pontiac 350, Olds 350, Pontiac 400, BBC, etc., etc., etc., have all been "discussed" at one time or another. My car is "unique", because nobody has a combo quite like mine, although a bunch of people have pieces of the combo; and, it's unique because nobody else owns my car.
you forgot the Buick 3800
And I'm not the first person to do this swap, just the second that I know of. If somene has a plan, the money & the know how to get the job done, go for it. Why should Fieros get all the fun??? I've seenthem w/the L67 inthem, L98's, even pics of a 455 longatudinally . All the engiens listed (except teh L67) can be swapped relatively easily into our cars, especially with the help of boards like this.
Originally posted by MrDude_1 the transverse northstars are (IMO) ideal motors to swap into fieros.
but for 3rdgens, i think the LS1 is a better choice.
The last two World of Wheels here in chicago I have been to have a Ferio club there. There is a Caddy Northstar engine swaped into one of them, and looks pretty cool. But it was a b*tch to tune. Caddy would not release electronic information to him so he could properly do the swap and tune it. From what the owner told me and my friends it took him a year to figure out how to tune the car on his own. In my opinion not worth it. There are no aftermarket parts that I know of and what transmissions could bolt up to it.
Kevin
__________________ 1989 IROC-Z Hardtop
2nd Place Best Restoration Thirdgen Fest 2007 -- 2nd Place Best Restoration Thirdgen Fest 2008 -- 1st Place Best Restoration Thirdgen Fest 2009 -- 3rd Place Best Modified Thirdgen Fest 2009 -- 1st Place Best Restoration Thirdgen Fest 2010
*Just a little Vortec set up*
I recently completed a L98 swap in my Fiero. I did consider the N*, as it's called on the Fiero forums, but I wanted something I could tune, upgrade, etc. without going broke. The Northstar is quite expensive to upgrade.
Most Northstar Fiero guys are getting around 300hp out of their motors. Not too shabby for a bone-stock motor.
The northstar is an awesome system, takes 4100 pounds down the quarter in 15.4 seconds (on 87 octane fuel), I have one mounted in a 1956 gmc truck, complete engine and transaxle, just sitting at the back of the truck instead of the front, lost some box space but now i have a trunk up front
any 60 degree metric style tranny will bolt up for conventional drive arrangement, just modify right lower bolt hole.
holley commander works just fine, but i prefer to use the stock computer, call lynden wester with your needs for pcm tuning or convert to ls1 style pcm and use hptuners
. All the engiens listed (except teh L67) can be swapped relatively easily into our cars, especially with the help of boards like this. 
