Quote: Originally posted by hot91t/a its my first muscle car and i want to do something with it I dont know if Id go as far as calling a 91 Trans Am a Muscle car. Sports car...yes. Anyway, throw the 305 in the garbage, go with a 350 at least. Youll be happier and have a fatter wallet in the end.

DO IT!

DO IT NOW!!!



~Nick~

Something these new guys need to realize is the more you mod a car the less reliable it becomes and the more of a handful it becomes. This was rather a shock to me when i did my first cam swap years back, your trading a lot of creature comfort for power. It becomes more of a pain in the *** to drive. It transforms from a nice reliable smooth running car to a loping, gas guzzling, constantly needing tweaking or fixing because your new power is breaking things or you forgot something kind of car.

My car is pretty quick now, but it took me a while to get used to driving a higher performance carbed car, after comming immediatley from lower performance injected model. Im used to it now and like it but it theres something to be said about a smooth running reliable grocery getter.

i follow that, the trick is to have 2 different cars, your hott rod and your dick-around-car, or for some people they have 3 cars, they add the mild performance car into that loop.

to each their own

~Nick~

If you really want to be different, build a 302 **takes cover from thrown stones**

Even a 302 would cost much less to get 400hp out of than a 305, and its got alot more potential to go further.

NOW, back to reality.... the 305 is a smog motor. It was meant to take Gramma to church in her 5000lb Impala. It was never meant to get her there quickly.

The 350 was designed from the start to be a performance engine specifically for the Camaro back in the 1960s. Its probably the cheapest engine in the world to make 400hp from, and its pretty much bulletproof too.

That is correct air_adam.

~Nick~

I stand correct

Think about what you are saying. When was the last time you saw a 302(3" stroke) crank laying around? A 302 crank is going to cost you a minor fortune, if you can find one. 302 pistons are expensive too, much more expensive than 305 flat tops. The two motors would need the same heads, cam induction, exhaust and preparation to achieve 400hp. The only benefit a 302 has over a 305 is a bigger bore (allows for a larger valve) but a 1.94-1.50" combination is all that's required to get 400hp.
The 305 based motor is hands down much cheaper to build to 400hp than a equal 302ci chev.

A stock 305 block is plenty strong. A forged 350 crank is cheap and easy to find and rebuild. good stock 350 truck "K" rods are plentyfull and more than strong enough for 400hp. 305 hypereutectic flat top pistons are cheap and more than up to the task of 400hp.
Fully ported 416 or 081 305 heads with 1.94-1.50" valves will flow more than enough air for 400hp.
A Crane cams "Saturday night special" cam and lifter/spring kit is just right for this motor. I'd use Crane Kit #110922.

A base 350 is no more a "performance motor" than a base 305. It is no more "bulletproof" either.

This motor is no more harder or expensive to build than a 400hp 350.

:hail: :hail: :hail:

about time someone who knows what they are talking about..

Yes it is harder to build than a 350. You will have to throw more, or I should say more extreme parts at it to achieve the same goals. I agree, the block isnt the limiting factor, they are same as far as strength, the crank isnt the problem either, cause of the availability of forged cranks. THe real problem is the waste of money you have created. I dont want to start the argument back up, but once again :

"Take a 400 hp 305, put all those same parts on a 350 and make 450hp. Just aint worth it to build one."

Amen.

OK I am going to chime in ........You can have a 500hp+hp 305 that gets 22mpg on 93 octane gas has excellent street manners and is 100% reliable its not that hard. What it does take is a good amount of research (and by that I mean more than a bunch of opinions, some good some not so good, from a message board) then when you have a solid direction and a end game get your finances together spend your money once and GET - ER - DONE. The main thing is decide how you are going to use your car in the end (daily driver vs a fun car or a combination of both) before you start the project then work your project with that goal in mind.

its always entertaining to see people get worked up over a .265 difference in bore diameter.

That's why it's been done so many times...

A dose of reality is in order here.

400 HP is asking too much of a 305 if you expect decent gas mileage, good street manners, and reliability. If you want all that, swap in an LS1 - it'll be cheaper.

I still vote for the small block 400.

if some one did want to make a 302 it would be pretty easy. as we all know the caprices from the mid 90s came with LT1s and its little brother the L99 which is a 265 v8 that uses a 3.00" stroke crank and 5.94" long PM rods. cast crank 1 peice rear main seal and decent rods, u would however need custom pistons.


also for anyone looking to do some minor mods to their 305 i suggest PMing a man by the name of Tim Burgess on this message board. he put a TPIS cam in his 305 and ported the stock heads and well he runs in the high twelves at 109mph.

I am not sure how to take that comment but if you want reality the 305 I currently have in my car has had over 55,000mi with over 400hp on and has over 500hp currently and gets over 22mpg

The 305 I built for a friend in 02 has 10,000 trouble free mi, it's just at 500hp and gets 18mpg

Now everyone isn't going to want what we have thats why I said you need to figure out what you want before you start but to say it can't be done or a 305 can't handle that much hp is misleading also once again it's not that hard

Let's see the dyno sheets.

Don't have any.....don't need any
If you are that interested you can come on the 1500 miles of the power tour we both are going to do next year and watch it on the track or you could of been there for the 800 miles we did this year

You care to share how you got that much power out of a 305? I'm not criticizing, I'm just interested to know. I assume nitrous or a supercharger.

The pics are the first ones on the page
Pictures

And I am also not trying to be rude I just don't like seeing blanket statements like "you can't do that" they are misleading for inexperienced members I would rather see people say "to do that would need to..........."

That's a nice looking car man. I've always loved the look of the blower sticking up through the hood.

wow everytime i look at your car i get a warm feeling inside....LOL

thats sweet ....

where are you from flrtin1?

I thought we were talking about NA motors in this topic...

Why didn't You guys build NA 400HP 305s
for street use ?

LOL because if you do your looking at more money than its worth...

It was my point is when when people say a 305 can't handle that much hp

We both wanted the blowers from day 1. In my case it has had a blower on it since 86

how many miles per year do you put on it ??

what did it run at the track (best time)?

Just up the road from you in Peoria. The last time we were in Staunton I about got my *** bit by that huge dog at the car sales place along 55 lol

About power handling, I agree. Its a smallblock, it will take what any smallblock with 2 bolt mains will (not going into wall thicknesses and other details here)
The big argument in this thread seems to be not the 305s ability to hold 400HP, rather, its ability to MAKE 400HP for street use, without nitrous and blower.
Nice car, BTW...

OH GOSH ...LOL..sorry to hear that ...did you get a good laugh at the guys prices out there on the junk he calls classics...LOL

you ever make it down this way in your car again youll have to let me know id like to see it in person .

looks like you put alot of hard work into it

It had 11,500mi on it when I first put the blower on it I think it acually has over 68k now (haven't looked at the milage for a while) plus it was in storage from late 92 until mid 99

The last time it was at the track was 88 I haven seen those slips for about 15yrs but if I remember right it was low 13's trapping in the low teens that was with the B&M 144, stock heads, HEI and 215's on the rear

back to topic I am off my box now sorry lol

Nice burnout I thought this was restricted to NA, and I think it's especially important to let inexperienced ppl know how to get decent power for low dollar. Were you involved in some race involving a displacement ceiling? Why did you opt to boost a 305?

About the topic - from the Forum Rules: "Stay on-topic to each specific board/post ..." Since the originator specifically said "NA", your statements and supporting "data" are moot and off-topic. Since you did not say in your original claim of 500 HP and 22 MPG that you were using a power-adder, that was misleading at best.

That doesn't sound like 500 HP performance. Weight and MPH would be adequate to get very close RWHP #'s, which it can be argued are as good as or better than chassis dyno #'s. The only thing more accurate is an engine dyno. For reference purposes only, I'm pushing 3880 lbs down the track in sub-13 seconds at 102 mph in the '57, which calculates out to around 400 FWHP, 325 RWHP.

What documentation can you offer for the 22 mpg claim?

Never mind, that's off-topic...

If you had read my post I said the 400 was in the late 80's with the 144 and that was with 215 eagle GT's (Hence the burn out comment) it also was the last time I was at the track

This stupidity just won't go away, will it?

I notice the guy that asked the original question hasn't participated very much.... maybe some of this pointless wrangling that's off the topic has got him as disgusted as it has me.... ya think??

Anybody can stick a blower on anything, especially if it's FI, and make huge power numbers. That's mind-numbingly trivial. It's beyond amusing to see somebody that thinks they "know" something about "building" motors just because they can stick a blower (or nitrous for that matter) on one and make it go faster. Hell, you can even do that to a Honduh, and make it run with decent V8s (not LG4s or L03s....); doesn't take much knowledge or skill, or a motor that's particularly powerful to begin with.

In any case, the original poster asked about "high HP" (whatever that might mean to whomever) out of his 305; with the following specific info:So, IMHO it's time to quit spanking off about how fast you made your 305 by huffing it, and answer the post at hand, and realize that if you stuck the same blower on some other car that was otherwise identical except it had a bigger motor, it would blow your 305's doors off, and we wouldn't have to put up with it any more.

lol bring it on...... and unlike you I don't think I know everything and there is only one way (your way) to do it
And if you (which you do a lot) want to spout your experience you might find out there are other people on here that might know a thing or two also

Judging from some e-mails and PM's I have got I think I am understanding why alot of the people with hands on experience don't bother to post anymore

And since it had been a month before I posted since the original poster had been here I assume you are addressing that toward someone else

You callin my boy stupid??? maybe he strayed off topic but what he has done works and BTW most people in the know realize that you don't Just slap on a blower. There are alot of things that go along with it to set it up right. This guy is full of knowledge that can be helpfull to everybody so lay off Jack...

and for the record... I'd like to see you take an identical car with a bigger motor with a blower and beat him. I doubt you would have the skill to compete...

Oh boy, it never ends. I guess the reason someone with a bigger engine with a blower couldnt beat him is because he is so talented? He can do magical things, right, that no one else is capable of?

You know, I have had differences with RB, but I dont think you know what the hell you are talking about. He has been building fast cars since before you were born.

I'm guessing that you guys are so good Boyd Coddington has you on speed dial huh? I bet you spend all of your time at the track, fixing peoples cars, because you are the king of race engines. This is getting to be as bad as the 327-350 debate. Let me guess the 327 is better, right?

Well, I think this has gone on long enough. I was ready to do this a couple of weeks ago, but I thought perhaps it may retain some redeeming qualities, and I've attempted time after time to get it back on topic, but it just isn't happening.

So, it is now time to say,

"Goodnight, Gracie..."