Engine SwapEverything about swapping an engine into your Third Gen.....be it V6, V8, LTX/LSX, crate engine, etc. Pictures, questions, answers, and work logs.
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i have the L79 327 in my third gen, only upgrades are edelbrock headers, edelbrock 750cfm carb. i will tell you, that eats 350s for breakfast, havnt had much that could or woudl keep up. the only cars that keep up are big, big money cars. i wouldnt traid my 327 for any small block.
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84327 your dead on. There are but a handfull of cars that had hypo 327s. The L79 is but a few, I beleive the L84 fuely is the 365 hp(Gross horsepower) L65 is the carb version. But there are just a handfull of hypo 350s also the LT-1 370 hp 360 hp in the camaro, I belive the 1st hypo 350 would be the L46 in the 69 vette 350 hp. The L46 does have me confused though. The L46 sounds like an Lt-1 with a quadrajet and a low rise cast iron intake. It has the same 11:1 compression.
i know a few gentlemen with 327s in there variouse cars and trucks, and there all the week 250horse version, none of them believed me when i told them the L79 was 340-350hp stock, one of them owns a garage, we tore the motor apart got some Numbers and checked, yep L79. then add on a big carb and open exhaust add another 20 atleast onto that. we then went out, he had his 81 Trans am with a 455 bigblock, 3.77 stock car gears, posi, i have 3.08s and one wheel wonder. well we went the local track on test day, first race he beat me by 2 tenths of a second, second race he killed me but he punched the go button (nos), but third race he ended up winning by half second. (good thing the 70's trans am with a bigblock is so damn heavy) lets see your 350 do that.
Last edited by 84327power; 06-24-2005 at 07:56 PM.
Comparing apples to apples O.K., Your saying L79. That number is nothing to through around. The L79 has a highrise Aluminum intake a solid lift cam. The L79 makes 350 GROSS H.P. The L79 is the 3rd highest rated 327 in chevy history. Put a vintage 370 H.P
LT-1 (yes there is a hifan in thats not like the 92-97 LT1) Put them in the same car the LT-1 will beat it. On the street torques is KING, but not only will the LT-1 make more torque, it has more horses. We are talking vintage ORIGONAL L79 V.S. LT-1 engines.
I doubt your L79 has the Origonal grind.
ok yes, an orginal LT-1 vs. L79 the LT-1 will win. horsepower yes gross 350 with the L79 and 370 with the LT-1 of course the LT-1 will win. what i was talking about is a slightly modified L79, basically straightpiped true duel exhaust, with larger carb, in a lighter car, vs. a 455 heavy as **** car.
i was talking a LT-1 Vs. a L79 in the same car, stock motors, the LT-1 will win. but main point was that a well put together L79 327 vs. a good 455 in a heavy car the 327 should win.
for instance, L79 327 in a third gen SC, vs an 81 Trans am, which is the second gen body, with a 455 bigblock. the transam is much heavier, the motor is much heavier. power to weight ratios
Last edited by 84327power; 06-24-2005 at 10:13 PM.
my L79, ok... its much cleaner now than it was then, this was just after getting the motor in, ill get a picture tomorrow if weather is good. but gives ya an idea
im prolly stupid for posting this picture, but i love this shot of my car, shows that that 327 pushes around, and trust me, its not as drematic as it looks. i was called every name in the book before. but i just wanted to show this. dont ask why
Give me the specs on your car I love hearing anything about 82-92 camaro and firebirds! Email me though, everyone has a good thing going on this sight, OH by the way This thread has inspired me to collect pics on factory 350/327 engines!!
Thanks Randy
I'm in a Corvette forum as well, and the Corvette had both the 327 and the 350 as engine options during the third generation years ('68-'82). Even though the original engine codes exist for these cars, "L79", "LT-1", "ZR-1", etc., I don't know too many owners that are actually leaving their engines original. Some of them remove the original engine to preserve their car's value and go and put different engines in them, such as 383 strokers or ZZ4 crate motors or whatever. Other owners rebuild their original engines to make a lot more power than they originally did. In other words, the motor may be an "L-79" in name only.
What I'm getting at is that the engine option code doesn't mean that much anymore, 30-something years later. These engines are getting tired and rebuilt, and are almost never rebuilt to original specifications. So throwing around the original horsepower numbers doesn't mean much anymore. You could have an "L79" that is actually a 383 making a lot more power than the "LT1" ever did. See what I mean?
But the actual point the guy was getting across, that torque is king on the street, I agree with.
For example, compare a Honda S2000 with its torque-less engine but with good power up high, with a Viper that has tremendous torque down low. Which one will be quicker on the street? That's a more extreme example of 327 vs. 350, but the point is the same. The torquier engine will feel quicker and perform better on the street.
On my Corvette, which is a big block 427, I used to have a bigger solid roller cam on it. Below 3500 rpm, it was gutless, but above 7000 rpm it was beautiful. I swapped it for a solid roller cam one "size" smaller in the series. Even though it won't rev as high, and will be 20 or 30 less horsepower on the books, it should perform a lot better because midrange torque is very much stronger and it'll start waking up at 3000 rpm. So if I were to race myself, I'd be a lot quicker with the smaller, torquier cam.
I know its been a while since anybody posted, but people we're saying the 327's sounded awesome. If anybody wants I can record the sound of mine in my 87 Iroc. True dual exhaust(2 1/2in) straight back from some hooker supercomp longtubes to some flowmaster super 40's. Its extremely deep sounding at idle but when revved its a little bit different then a 350.
hey toca, lets compair sounds, my 327 has a mild cam, flat pistons, slightly better than stock intake and big *** carb, out through edelbrock headers to costom bent pipes to sidepipes that are basically straight pipes. send me your sound at darcren64@hotmail.com and ill get mine recorded
I disagree spectre. A smaller stroke wont make it more streetable.
If you put a big cam in a 327 it will lope, you put the same cam in a 350 to 400 it will idle smoother.
Thats why if you hear a 375 hp 396 and a L72 427 425 hp, the 427 will sound milder.
yes a 327 will lope more than a 350 with the same cam, but not much... and a lope doesnt make it any less streetable, if you know how to hadle it that is. gotta figure that an ls1 yes it idles smooth but your pusing same horse and thats streetable... plus the lope sounds good
i have an 84 sports coupe camaro with a 327 in it, go for it... if you want it to look good, take your time and rewire or get someone to rewire it. when i got the car and droped motor in the rest of the drive train was bone stock, held up fine, nothing broke i just upgraded it. so go for it
Either way you go, any 4 inch bore or bigger chevy small block will run good. Its just a good design. With the camshaft selection and good heads we have today, if one uses common sense you cant go wrong.
Originally posted by 84327power i have an 84 sports coupe camaro with a 327 in it, go for it... if you want it to look good, take your time and rewire or get someone to rewire it. when i got the car and droped motor in the rest of the drive train was bone stock, held up fine, nothing broke i just upgraded it. so go for it
my 327 is carberated, i removed air, heat, smog system, basically everything thats electrical. the only thing yet is the distributer. so i didnt use a harness. but you can get a hassle free harness that shoudl only have what you need on it. pretty sure there called hassle free even... but like i said.. i just removed everything that was being used... computer included
Originally posted by 84327power hey toca, lets compair sounds, my 327 has a mild cam, flat pistons, slightly better than stock intake and big *** carb, out through edelbrock headers to costom bent pipes to sidepipes that are basically straight pipes. send me your sound at darcren64@hotmail.com and ill get mine recorded
My engine is pretty much the same. I just have a edel performer cam and intake, flatop pistons, and a huge carb also. Tonight im ordering a edel rpm air gap intake and a different cam.
First of let me just say i have been planning a 327 Swap in my IROC. Altough mine would be TPI. There was just something that was bothering me. If the 327 is so short on torque. what does that make the 305 TPI. thats what my car has and i have over 300 ft lbs of torque at the rear wheels. But anyways now thanks to this post im sure i wanna swap a 327 when my 305 dies. (which seems like never ) mmmm 327 Tuned Port. that would make it have torque.....
when it comes to torque, i dont think the 327 is lacking, mine has more torque than a friends 400 off the line, it just loses some down a ways... i dont believe you will be sorry with going from a 305 to a 327
A 327 built the same as a 305 will have more torque than the 305. The reduction in stroke will be more than made up with the addition of cubic inches.
Torque is a matter of how you fill the cylinders at a given RPM. And, when you get down to it, that's how you make horse power, because HP is just a time-based expression of torque.
So, put a cam in the 327 that speaks to the strength of TPI, along with good heads and exhaust, and you'll have as much torque as your heart desires.
Sorry, that is just too simplistic. Torque is a fuction of force times lever arm. Increase the force, even if the lever arm is reduced, and you'll get the same or more torque. Since 4" bore enhances cylinder fill, and better cylinder fill increases the fuel/air that will act on the larger pressure area, meaning more force, you'll get more torque with a 327 than you will with a 305.
Works every time it's tried (and properly executed).
So when you put a 3.75 crank in a 350 what happens?
The bore does play a part i agree. thats why when you compare a 305 and 350 the 350 will usualy have about 30lbs of torque over the 305(Stock engines).
Randy
Torque definitely makes a difference in a street car. However, with the gas prices getting ridiculous, a smaller displacement 327 (in comparison to a 350) may not be that bad an idea. You should see an mpg or two from the smaller engine, and it'll tend to make more power than a 305. So I still see a 327 as an upgrade to a third gen.
Don't expect miracles though, the 3rd gen is a fairly heavy car for a little 327. I would suggest the smaller cam that improves torque response over a larger, lopier cam. However, if you'd rather have the lope, then at least improve your rear end gears. 3rd gens were also notorious for their tall rear end gears in most cases. With a 700R4's 3.06 first gear ratio, anything shorter than a 3.08 will give a good launch.
I've found the 3rd gen drivetrain to be fairly tough over the years. Provided you don't hammer it 100% of the time, with a warmed over 350, I have never had trouble with my 700R4 or rear end. So I don't think sticking a 327 in a 3rd gen will hurt such a drivetrain...however, a T5 might be tested by the 327's higher horsepower.
And...actually, in response to the last post, INCREASING the length of the lever arm increases torque. Picture using a lever to move a boulder. A longer lever will make it easier to move the boulder, not a shorter lever.
Still, bore versus stroke makes a difference more at the edge of the envelope. The actual differences are minor. Take a 383 for example, there are two ways of building one. If you stroke a 350 with a 400 crank, and if you destroke a 400 with a 350 crank. Piston speed is what changes dramatically. You can get a higher physical redline with equivalent parts if you get the slower piston speed of a destroked 400 version of a 383. And higher rpm allows you to get higher horsepower if you cam for it.
But for a street engine, there won't be much difference. I believe you'd have to run both engines near the ragged edge to see a difference, and then you'd probably see a little more torque down low in the stroked 350 and a little more horsepower up high on a destroked and cammed 400.
ok rockin, first off, i have a 327 pushing well over 300horse, friend of mine has a 355 pushing a bit more, and his motor gets better milege, but also i drive mine harder. ok and with the drive train yes i agree that a 700r4 is a tuff as **** tranny, and that rear end with 3.08s is what i run (for now) and its held up wonderfully. it all comes down to what you like, if you want the nastalgia ( i know i spelled that wrong and im sorry) of a 327 and build it, or do you want the common 350, they are both pretty similar, you can do pretty much what ever you want to either, and they will be pretty evenly matched, there were low ends of each, and high ends of each, i love my 327 i wouldnt traid it for any 350 out there. its up to the individual
Originally posted by Rockin-Iroc And...actually, in response to the last post, INCREASING the length of the lever arm increases torque. Picture using a lever to move a boulder. A longer lever will make it easier to move the boulder, not a shorter lever.
Increasing the stroke increases the torque if the rotating force remains the same. The smaller displacement engine has less force driving the piston down, regardless of bore and stroke.
I will build a 327 some day. any chevy engine with a 4 inch bore or over will run great. I have never built a 400 but i want to, I love building a chevy engine. The excitement of finding out how each combo will work. High rpms, or high torque.
The chevy small block is an American Icon!
I have a 327 engine in my IROC. But i have a problem with it, sense the ECM was for the 305 the chip was re-programed of the 350 diagram. It has run on the 1/4mile with another intake but now with the TPI it gets to much gas in the higher rews.
Thought a carburettor could be in place but would surley mitt the quick respondese of the TPI.
Annyone knowing somone that have programing knolige or grate diagram of a 327 TPI motor??
I am not sure if this was already discussed but I will bring it up anyway. If the 327 and the 350 are built IDENTICAL then the 327 will have more top end horse power due to the fact the cam selected will act as a bigger cam in the smaller engine. I also have to vouch for the shorter stroke revving higher without regards to the valvetrain holding it back. Go out and buy any stock 307 as I did, put a 600 double pumper on it and see how much higher it revs vs. a 350 with a cam and 4 barrel carb. If I had a camera I would post the video of my two trucks and prove it. And for those that have desktop dyno simply build the same engines and you will see the 327 having more top end horsepower. The torque is down yes, but when you are racing what does that matter when you are attempting to keep it in its peak powerband? Stroke vs. bore is very important in building an engine. I once read an article on a quad turbo'd engine where they would give the displacement but would not reveal the the stroke or bore because the were in a very competitive racing class. Now why would they due that? If I am drag racing and need to see peak horsepower at 7000rpm, give me the 327, driving a truck or a very heavy car give me the treefitty. Peace out.
I have to disagree. You cannot discount displacement that easily. I would agree that a built and souped up 327 would make more horsepower than a mild and stock 350, but if you put the same money and effort in the 350, then the benefit of the extra cubic inches would make more power and torque. Same with a 383 or a 406.
Don't forget that horsepower is simply torque multiplied by rpm and divided by a constant.
HP=Torque x RPM/5252
So you increase torque and build your combination to also increase your rpm with those larger cubic inches, and horsepower has no choice but to increase.
The debate will go on, but the question is, IS he going to purely race this car? Or is he going to drive it on the street at all? If the answer is the latter, then torque is FAR more important than pure upper rpm horsepower.
About the carb versus tuned port, I wouldn't convert to a carb. The tuned port maximizes torque in a way that not even a small carb on a dual plane can match. And when I converted from a Holley on a Wieand dual plane to a TPI, not only did I gain big power, but I also gained 5 mpg!!!
a 307 is just a 283 bore with a 327 crank. the 283 has a shorter 3.0 stroke compared to the 3.25 stroke of the 307. so if a shorter stroke engine revs better why dont the 283 rev? The 283 doesnt have the 4 inch bore.
There is no relacement for displacement.
Having built, owned, and driven 283, 302, 305, 307, 327, 350 and 400 SBCs, I think I have a little to contribute here (am I repeating myself?).
A simple way to sum up most of what is said about stroke vs. bore vs. displacement vs. torque vs. high-reving is - BUNK!
327 iroc, you need to aquaint yourself with PROM tuning. Forget trying to get something off the shelf, even with "normal" TPI displacements, they fall short. You'll realize more satisfaction from do-it-yourself PROM tuning than you possible could by trying to get someone else to guess, mail a chip, have you try it, return the chip, have them guess again, etc., etc., etc.
Originally posted by 86 sports coupe a 307 is just a 283 bore with a 327 crank.
That's true, but doesn't tell the whole story. All 283s were small journal, some 327s were small journal (up through 1967), all 307s were large journal (medium mains, technically, since 400 mains were larger than 307/350/305 mains). Only 1968 & 1969 327s were large journal.
No matter the displacement, I truly enjoy bolting the small block chevy together, and the excitement of hearing it fire up for the 1st time. Or trying a new bolt on part.
I have a 69 large journal 327 NOM. Compliments of my grandfather who worked as the super indendant of the foundry that casted the pistons. Supposedly the block has the same casting numbers as the DZ302 blocks but this has yet to be confirmed as the engine is hiding in a corner so I will update this in a future post when I decide to look at it. peace out.
locating A/Cwiring 
) mmmm 327 Tuned Port. that would make it have torque..... 
