DAVECS1

I think as long a the knock sensor and module are for the same size engine you will be OK as far them working together. Being as these parts are kind of on the pricey side I would go ahead and try what you got, and see if the car is down on power. If you are really conerned you can first do a simple time light check in the drive way. If that seems to work out OK you could find a dyno shop close by and the graph will tell you exactly what the timing is doing. I wish my old man would of took me to the dyno shop after I finished my first car. If anything it is just awsome to here a car howling while standing still, but seriously it is good insight on how the car works as a sytem to get power to the ground.

If it does turnout you are having knock retard problems, I would first change the sensor to the one out of a 350 86-88 TBI-TPI car. I would try to stay with the 2 piece rear main model years. If that doesn't work I would layout the dough for a module, and if your still having problems, I would start checking mechanical stuff.

kboehringer

Silver_Panther,

We did not take any photos of the harness while it is out of the car and it's now been installed. However, what Derek and I can do is take a photo of it in the engine compartment (without the engine) and highlight each independent strand with a different color and add some markers and such. That should make your removal or replacement very easy. We didn't have such a resource and it would have been great to have.

I am concerned about what you are planning to do "RE: Clutter Removal". Although you could Probably remove a few wires here and there for pollution items, you're not going to get rid of too much and have it run. Let me give you some examples:
(Please keep in mind I'm not at home looking at the car and most of this is from memory)

Strand #1 - Monster from computer area and Pass. Fender Well.
Wires within this strand go to the Starter, Tranny, Carb/TBI, Knock Sensor, Knock Module, MAP Sensor, Air Pump???. Without most of that you won't go anywhere fast.
Strand #2 - Monster from Driver Side F.Wall. - Wires go to the Wipers, Distributor, Alternator, Ties into #4 below, and some pollution Stuff?.
Strand #3 - Kinda Small from Drivers FireWall - down the driver fender or under the brake system. Front Lighting! Definately Need all of that!
Strand #4 - Around the A/C Duct through F.Wall to Driver's Temp Controls. If you want Heat, Defrost, A/C you need all that stuff.
Strand # 5 - Tiny Strand ... Just for Cruise to inside F.Wall.

What are you going to get rid of? You can certainly route the wires nicer (we're trying some of this) and make them look better with some aftermarket wraps. There are NO strands you and Chuck in the trash! We're replacing our wiring because it was SEVERELY damaged and we couldn't use a Carb on a Cross-Fire harness anyway.

I'll make up the photos if you like......

Sincerely,
Kurt

__________________
Kurt & Derek Boehringer

1982 Chevrolet Camaro Z-28
------------------------------------
1979 Pontiac TransAm '78 Clone - 455 MONSTER!

five7kid

I got them both from gmpartsdirect.com for less than $100, including (the rather pricey) shipping.

kboehringer

I called the local Chevy Dealer early this morning......My "Guess" was pretty good (if we were to go to the dealer).
Sensor: $55.60
Module: $116.13

I was unable to get any info on the internet last evening. I found GM Performance Parts, GM Restoration Parts, Etc. Couldn't find plain old parts..... Five7Kid got a web address to the proper site?

Thanks again,
Kurt

__________________
Kurt & Derek Boehringer

1982 Chevrolet Camaro Z-28
------------------------------------
1979 Pontiac TransAm '78 Clone - 455 MONSTER!

91formulaSS

http://www.gmpartsdirect.com

their pretty good on price, but the shipping usually kills.

sellmanb

I'd imagine that the knock sensor and module would need to match up with whatever computer was used before. I've inquired on the boards before about using a 305 LG4 knock sensor on a 350, and everyone who responded stated the same thing, that it shouldnt make a difference.

If the module and sensor that you have are both from an LG4, and can verify that it used the same computer number then you should be good to go.

Of course, new parts never hurt anyone if you'd like to go that route lol.

Looks like you guys might have your whole car rebuilt before I get mine running again! Good progress, glad to see this come together so quickly

P.S. Your cam choice is perfect for your application

five7kid

10456288, $27.80.
16128261, $48.39.

$93.82 total for the order.

Did take almost 3 weeks to get them - a little disappointed about that.

kboehringer

Sellmanb,

We can't take any credit for that choice as Five7Kid and DaveCS1 really made the choice for us.

"I" undertand the physical characteristics of Lift, Duration, Lobe Sep, and Proper Timing of those events in relation to the travel (or advance) of the pistons and TDC. But I don't have a good grasp of what's best/better for a specific application or even why it's better.

We're lucky to have TGO Friends to turn to when we're unsure or ignorant of needed information.

Sincerely,
Kurt

sellmanb

Atleast you guys ask questions if you dont know, instead of going blindly towards a goal lol


I have a 1986 LG4 car (or had, sort of hehe). If you need numbers for something or pictures dont hesitate to ask. I finally got the home computers working again and I can upload pictures.

If you need pictures of how my wiper setup works I'd be glad to rip things apart and take a few photos lol.

kboehringer

Lo-Tec & Other TGO Friends,
We're gonna try what we have and see how it works. If we see a Carbed 350 in the J.Yard and it has the sensor and module we'll grab it. If the car runs like crap we'll purchse a new set from GM.

It's not like it's gonna make the car explode if it inaccurately senses a knock and advances the timing. If the Haynes Manual's explanation of the way the thing works is correct, I dnon't think the differences between a 305 and 350 should make a difference.........

Thanks for your input..... according to Haynes you're correct about BAD GAS and it doesn't do anything if it doesn't "sense" a knock.

Sincerely,
Kurt & Derek

__________________
Kurt & Derek Boehringer

1982 Chevrolet Camaro Z-28
------------------------------------
1979 Pontiac TransAm '78 Clone - 455 MONSTER!

kboehringer

TGO Friends,

How in the heck does one get parts from AutoZone, Advance Auto, Pep-Boys, etc.???

Yesterday Nancy went to A.Zone to get a carb kit... I made sure to tell her "Get one for an '87 Firebird w/Q-Jet. and gave her the carb serial number Fortunately, I checked the serial numbers on the kit instruction sheet BEFORE I opened the actual kit..... WRONG ONE! She also purchased a set of plugs. I forgot to tell her 1974 Chevy Truck 350.... She got 'em..... For an '82 Camaro (probably wrong also)

This is gonna drive us CRAZY. This is how we have to ask for parts since the guy behind the counter don't seem to know how to use a serial number for a part look-up.

1974 Chevy Truck - 350 Engine (Plugs, Etc.)
1983 Pontiac FireBird? - TH700 Transmission (Gaskets, etc.)
1986 Z-28 - Wiring Harness/Emissions
1987 Pontiac Firebird - (Carb)
1984 Camaro - Steering (Hoses, Cooling Loop)
There are probably more examples I could give......

Does anyone else have to deal with this? How in the heck do you do it?

Sincerely,
Kurt

__________________
Kurt & Derek Boehringer

1982 Chevrolet Camaro Z-28
------------------------------------
1979 Pontiac TransAm '78 Clone - 455 MONSTER!

Klortho

You should have seen them earlier tonight at AutoZone, I went in to buy a coil for a '95 Trans Am with an LT1 350 (which I have in my '86 Firebird) then I asked for a fuel filter for an '86 Firebird, the guy looked at me like I was crazy, but had to explain that the LT1 was in the Firebird and blah blah blah. It can be tedious when it comes to what to get at times.

BruceEmbry

I believe you guys are documenting everything that you do. I documented everthing about my conversion when converting to the 350TPI. I have a documentation pack, that lists all parts, part diagames, etc.. So just keep on doing what you are doing and everything will be fine. One place I go to for parts in www.rockauto.com.

Rockauto now has a warehouse in Atlanta, GA. Rockauto prices are lower then Autozone. I just ordered a heater core, EGR valve, etc, from them and everything arrived in two days. I would also sugguest that you stay with AC Delco and GM OEM parts whenever possible.

flyitlikustolit

ac delco makes two things: boxes and spark plugs. they don't make anything else; they just tag their name on other people's products for name recognition.

as far as your question Kurt, i work at autozone, and it's irritating being the only one who knows how to look up stuff and who knows what kinda stuff interchanges. but basically, you have to simplify it, cuz most guys in there have little auto experience. so asking for parts based on the car you got parts out of is a good idea. good luck

91formulaSS

all manufacturers do this with at least some components of their products. at least (with ac delco) you will be getting something that probably came on your car originally. regardless, stick with their oil filters.

LT1guy

You can do what I do; its its something unusual, look it up online, and just go in and ask for the part number. They know me so well at the local AutoZone (24hrs, which is nice!) I usually just go back to get some things myself, especially hoses and belts. Remember, they guy behind the counter was probably flipping burgers last week, and knows nothing about cars.

__________________
Altered State Customs
1987 Trans Am w/455 (in progress)
1985 Trans Am (getting 500ci Caddy)
1997 Camaro SS #359 383 LT1
Co-Builder of RAIF (As seen on TLC's RIDES!)

flyitlikustolit

if only you knew how right you are......

24hrs? the one on jimmy carter is 24 hrs..... are you close to that one?

sellmanb

I am not 100% sure, but I believe that they stopped making LG4's in 1986, and went onto the 305 TBI's, and the kit for a TBI would probably look similar to one for a carb at first glance.

The spark plugs should be for whatever heads you have, so you get the correct length and thread count and such.

I'd try a 1986 Camaro 5.0l 305 Carb'd motor for the carb rebuild kit. Then just go to your GM dealer and get different rods and hangars (more on this in the carb board).

It's hard to say what year car you'd be looking for, for a rebuild kit on the 700R4. In 1987 (or '86 I dont remember atm) they switched the number of vanes in the pump or something. If you're rebuilding the 700R4 completely over, then you'll get a new pump anyways, so you should look for a 1990 Camaro/Firebird rebuild kit (you'll find lots of good ones on the internet).


I know exactly what you mean about doing all the dancing around for parts at the store.

Most the time I look them up on the internet first and go in with the parts numbers, makes everone's life easier I've found, but I only recently got my computer back, so I've had to just go in and have them do it... let me tell you, I replace my starter and decided to go with an LT1 starter since I've got headers now, and it blew their minds that you could go from a big 'ol starter (factory sized for our cars) to the LT1 mini starter and still have it work.

Most of the guys there dont know much about cars other than their own, and sometimes not even that. Which is why most of the time I go to NAPA. The people there arent as friendly, but they have more resources, and they have ASE certified parts techs there incase I dont even know what the name of something is called lol.



When I go to auto parts stores I have to have the guys there look up stuff for different cars so often that they think I'm rich with tons of cars or something . I told them I needed spark plugs for a 74 El Camino, carb spacer gasket for an '86 Camaro, dip stick tube for an 73 Camaro, a servo from an 88 Corvette, a starter from a 96 Camaro, etc... and I'm sure most the guys on this board have to do similar tip toeing around at parts stores... so dont worry, you arent alone

kboehringer

TGO Friends,

We just noticed (yesterday) that the flex plates from the 350 and 305 are different sizes. The 350 has about 20 more teeth than the 305. The bigger plate appears to have enough clearance to work with the TH-700 but it sure is close. The Starters obviously bolt up differently and there is a significant weight difference between them. The 305's bolts are parrallel and the 350's are offset slightly.

There is not that much cubic inch difference between 305 and 350. But our 350 may be a tough on a standard starter.
Would a/our 350 require a more powerful starter (torque)?
Has anyone used the bigger flex with the TH700? Problems?

Sincerely,
Kurt

P.S. I have a BRAND NEW 305 STARTER but will need a new .Yard flex (damaged as mentioned in a previous post) My 350s starter looks like it's about out of life, maybe original to the truck it came from.

__________________
Kurt & Derek Boehringer

1982 Chevrolet Camaro Z-28
------------------------------------
1979 Pontiac TransAm '78 Clone - 455 MONSTER!

five7kid

168-tooth, 14", vs. 153-tooth, 12-3/4". The starter has to be farther away from the engine centerline with the 14". Can be a problem if you put headers on.

153-tooth is certainly the easier way to go, after you get a different flexplate, of course. They're pretty cheap. The starter shouldn't have any trouble turning over the 350 with the smaller flexplate. But, if you want to use the 14", the nose off of the 350 starter should fit the 305 starter.

DAVECS1

I went through this. it will make it easier to go with a 153 tooth flexplate for a two piece rear main seal. I found on my GTA that the larger one causes some clearance issues with the exhaust and torque converter dust cover. You can go to advance auto parts and get a flexplate for an 86 camaro. I think it is around 40 dollars or so. I would not worry about the starter, I think they are exactly the same.

five7kid

'86 would be one-piece rear main seal. Try '83 to '85.

5ltrbtr

About the knock sensor. The way it was explained to me was that GM used two diff ones, the only way you can tell which is which is with an ohm meter.
I think one is 9.8ohms and the other is 4.5 ohms don't quote me on that its been a few months so if you have one of each from the j-yards and niether one works that would let you know if you need a module or not.

sellmanb

I just went to Carquest and asked for a two piece rear main seal 153 tooth flexplate for a 700R4. It probably would have been easier to ask for a 1985 Camaro flexplate.

I also got a starter from an LT1 camaro, these are much better technology-wise, and smaller, which makes them easier to uninstall/reinstall w/o taking out the y-pipe. You can get one from a j. yard pretty easily I bet. Or from a parts store for ~200, I'd suggest one

kboehringer

All TGO Friends,
This evening we worked on the engine bay. As ususal more problems. Brake fluid had been spilled (or had been leaking) down the side of the inner fender and all the paint was bubbled all the way down to the K Member. With a die grinder and some small flapper disks we got all the bubbled paint off and ground out the rust. We may use the rattle can method to finish the repair.

We couldn't get the strut tower top off as the nut holding on the Strut was cross threaded (probably with an impact wrench on maximum). What else would we expect with this Z-28?. We'll be cutting that one off and buying two NEW struts....

FedEx track says the CamShaft will be here tomorrow and the machine shop states that the new springs and keepers will arrive in the A.M. If all goes well.... the engine will be installed on July 4th Weekend!

We've got a good bit more work to do in the engine bay in addition to the final assembly of the long block. We also need to find a few more items at the J.Yard this weekend (nothing that should delay the install except the 153 flex plate)! We've seen ThirdGens without trans but w/flex plate. Hopefully we can find one, otherwise we stop at AutoZone on the way home and buy a new one with the struts.

Thanks for the advice on the 153... We really wanted to use the new starter.... Glad we can!

Thanks for the advice on the Knock Sensor.... Maybe we'll find a 350 in the J.Yard (unlikely). Our fingers are crossed that we do OK with what we have. Otherwise, GMPartsDirect.com... Three weeks for delivery is absolutely unacceptable they've got to be able to do better than that!

Thanks for the advice on AutoZone... Looking up the parts on the I-Net first seems like the way to avoid explaining everything on every visit. We are very fortunate that our A.Zone employs a member of Richard Petty's original pit crew. "Don" is a very knowledgeable older guy. If he isn't there....forget about good advice. NAPA is extremely expensive, in our area they cater to the shops not individuals.

Seems like we spend a lot of time thanking you guys... but it is definately sincere. Thanks Again...

Kurt & Derek

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