Father & Son 1st Car Swap Project Chronicled - Page 9 - Engine Swap - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

911rsq · 06-29-2005, 03:01 AM

After reading that, I sure will be. Thankfully I will be priming mine in the garage... the ol' lady would kill me if I even got a drip of oil in the house

five7kid · 06-29-2005, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kboehringer
We noticed Accel "Shorty Plugs" at the local Autozone and figure we're gonna have to go with those unless we can find another plug that's a little shorter than standard. Derek and I just finished a Search of the TGO site and have found and read multiple articles about them. Seems the general consensus is that the Accel shorties will work just fine if we make sure to tighten the caps before install.

I've been using 276S since 1999 (before that in another engine, actually). World recommended 276 plugs for their heads, so it seemed like the thing to do. I took the screw-on terminals off each plug and put the far end in the vice and squeezed it down just a little. It requires pliers to reinstall. Makes 'em good & tight.

kboehringer · 06-29-2005, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 911rsq
... the ol' lady would kill me if I even got a drip of oil in the house

Since we have no garage, we received permission from the WARDEN (aka. My Wife Nancy) to prepare the engine in a small mud room that is only used by the kids and could NEVER be seem by a friend/guest. Unfortunately, part of the "DEAL"was to promise to finally tackle replacement of the Lino. Flooring, wall painting, etc., in this area that I have ignored for years......

Derek and I will abide by our portion of the agreement unless I plan on spending an extended period of time on the Couch!

Sincerely,
Kurt

speedingpenguin · 06-29-2005, 12:11 PM

hahahahaha
that sucks, but at least your holding up on your end of the deal...
can we expect updates/pictures on that project as well? LOL

flyitlikustolit · 06-29-2005, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by five7kid
I've been using 276S since 1999 (before that in another engine, actually). World recommended 276 plugs for their heads....

5/7 , I'm running Sportsman II's, and I picked up some accel shorties. what are the 276S you're talking about? I'm looking for a good plug to run in my angles plug S II's and still work with hooker 2210 longtubes.

C h r i s · 06-29-2005, 04:13 PM

Wow fun build - I haven't read all the posts but it looks like a great family project. I'm in Atlanta (Marietta) and built a 406 for my '80 El Camino a few months ago. PM me if you need to - maybe I can help you avoid mistakes I made.

Chris

five7kid · 06-29-2005, 07:19 PM

276 are regular length Accel plugs. 276S are short 276 Accels.

kboehringer · 06-29-2005, 09:32 PM

TGO Friends,
Dad thought this would turn out better but it is easier to read than in our photo. We couldn't find a better piece of steel to stamp these into......
Sincerely
DEREK

kboehringer · 06-29-2005, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 911rsq
.....bracket cut and a sleeve between the bracket and the header mounting hole.

911rsq,
We did as you suggested. I took an extra Alt. spacer and turned it on the lathe. I have no reservations about the diminished bracket. It's probably over-engineered as it is
Sincerely,
Kurt

kboehringer · 06-29-2005, 10:43 PM

Five7Kid,
Thanks for the idea. A "little" squish of the tip would keep 'em on.
Sincerly, Kurt

911rsq · 07-01-2005, 01:39 AM

Stamping that stuff into the body tag is a GREAT idea!!!!

Now you will never forget where it all came from, and if you ever sell it, the new owner will know too!!!!

91blkta · 07-02-2005, 09:05 PM

This is turning out great love this post keeps me comming back to read more. If you find the parts I asked for let me know in a private msg. No rush just bought a grand prix gxp 5.3l so the Trans am has been sitting lately while I enjoy the new toy. This post will be a great read for anyone who wants to take on this type of project and see all the pit falls that go with it. Wishing you well in your project and all the great bonding time.

kboehringer · 07-03-2005, 12:18 AM

TGO Friends,

We FINALLY got the Engine and Tranny In the Z-28!

We started the day mighty early trying to finish the final prep of the engine bay. The Fuel supply (above the tranny) was smashed flat and after careful consideration decided not to try and mend the line. Off we go to the J.Yard in Georgia's unbearable heat (90+ Humid Degrees today). We got lucky and found a carbed Z-28 with no driveline and perfect lines. We also found the Mixture Solenoid Assembly in perfect condition.

Unfortunately, we could not beg, borrow, or rent a load leveler for the engine hoist and fought with the tranny and engine combo for a heck of a while until we finally decided to remove the headers... Instant success it dropped dead on the motor mounts!! The headers slipped right back on with no trouble..... We took ALL of your advice and are glad we did; NO Carb, NO Dizzy, NO Water Pump, No Wiper Motor, NO Pulleys, If ANY of that stuff would have been on... It would have been either busted or in the way.

That's about as far as we got before 11:00 pm and Derek and I were both too tired to continue safely and effectively.

We hope to make her run tomorrow!
Then we'll no longer be the "Unfortunate Engine Swap Victims" but rather a Fortunate Engine Swap Father/Son Team (Derek's Idea - Kinda Corny)

We'll post a pic or two and get some good ones posted tomorrow.....

EVERYBODY: Have a safe and enjoyable 4th of July - Drive Safe!

Sincerely,
Kurt & Derek

kboehringer · 07-03-2005, 12:22 AM

TGO Friends,
Just another Pic of the Install.....

kboehringer · 07-03-2005, 12:30 AM

TGO Friends,
Derek and I have been talking (and writing you guys) about how we would like to keep the exterior of this car "Stockish 1982" Well I couldn't resist a minor temptation when I saw it in the J.Yard today. If we clean these up an repaint them to match the car (eliminate the chrome for gold paint)...... what do you think? They're from an OLD OLD Chevelle.... Thoughts?
Sincerely,
Kurt

911rsq · 07-03-2005, 12:41 AM

Congrats guys.....looks like a fun day!!!!!!
That's awesome that you found the part you needed at the J-Yard.......
Congrats!!!!!!!!

91blkta · 07-03-2005, 02:17 AM

I dont see anything wrong some indication of whats under the hood. If its Tastfully done than go for it!! Lookes like you guy's had a long day, going to sleep good tonight!! Everyone have a safe and fun 4th and enjoy the time spent with family and friends.

speedingpenguin · 07-03-2005, 10:59 AM

sweet!
Doesn't it feel good to finally have an engine and transmission in the car? I know it did when I did that, lol
Be sure to get video (if your digital camera is capable) of the first startup! :-)

kboehringer · 07-03-2005, 07:57 PM

TGO Friends,
Wanted to get her running today but that's not going to happen due to thunderstorms. Managed to get a few items completed although we're still finishing up the underside items. Here's a photo(s) from earlier today before the rain dampened our progress....
Sincerely,
Kurt & Derek

P.S. Hopefully, Five7Kid won't object to a plug for one of the sponsors..... The F-Body CD has been worth EVERY CENT (about $20?). We took the Z-28 apart several months ago and have had a little bit of difficulty remembering an item or two. The CD's expanded parts diagrams have resolved questions....AND we can look up part numbers "ourselves" and have A.Zone do a cross reference rather than going through the process of ordering parts for three or four different models.

kboehringer · 07-04-2005, 10:44 PM

TGO Friends,
We got her put together enough to try a start-up but had no success other than spits and sputters. We have fuel, we have fire, we have compression.... Guess we just have to get the timing and quantity of the three together properly. Trouble-shooting tomorrow.... Sincerely, Kurt

sellmanb · 07-05-2005, 02:52 AM

Great! Glad it's at the "fine tuning" point now

You'll find it a lot easier if you have one of you turning the key (and pumping the gas pedal... it's carbed after all

), and the other turning the distributor slowly.

If fidding with the timing doesnt work,

Double and triple check your firing order, and where the spark plug wires are going... then after you do that, have the wife make sure it's right... as my girlfriend always says "the woman is always right"... I just figure a fresh mind is less likely to be caught in the rush

Then double check for spark and spark quality by taking a spark plug out, set it near something to ground on (this will have the spark go to that place, so choose carefully lol), and inspect for spark, or spark quality.

After that, assume it's carb related... you guys rebuilt it, and I know on my first carb rebuild there was a few extra springs and such that were left over that I figured "eh, who will know the difference"

lol

This shouldnt be too hard to figure out, assuming you did the timing chain correctly heh.

Oh, what did you set your spark plug gap to? Not what MSD recommends I hope heh. the stock specs .035 is perfect.... spark gap is typically more aimed towards compression ratio, rather than the "power" of the ignition.

911rsq · 07-05-2005, 04:30 AM

Lookin' good guys! I feel like I am just 2 or 3 steps behind you, as I am getting ready to paint up the engine in the next few days and then bolt on the intake.....
I must say that your engine really looks good in there. I am not usually a fan of the black painted blocks, but your's came out really well. I think those silver brackets really set it all off! Good luck with the weather. I can't wait to read the post about it getting fired up soon....

Edit - P.S. Since you just went thru this, what did you set as the gap between your oil pan and your oil pickup (screen)?

five7kid · 07-05-2005, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kboehringer
Hopefully, Five7Kid won't object to a plug for one of the sponsors..... The F-Body CD has been worth EVERY CENT (about $20?). We took the Z-28 apart several months ago and have had a little bit of difficulty remembering an item or two. The CD's expanded parts diagrams have resolved questions....AND we can look up part numbers "ourselves" and have A.Zone do a cross reference rather than going through the process of ordering parts for three or four different models.

No problem here. I fully understand the issue. I'm not modifying nearly as much as you, and I've had to spend time finding something I took off 5 weeks ago. For instance, I spent 10 minutes last night looking for the fuel pump mount bolts until I remembered I had put them in the new fuel pump box - had I just pulled the pump out before running around like a headless chicken, I wouldn't have wasted that time.

I'll post some pics of my progress later (and in my own thread). Mine is even "blacker" than yours, all the brackets black, chome valve covers, but the intake is also black because they paint the ZZ4 crate intakes (and I didn't feel like stripping off the paint).

DAVECS1 · 07-05-2005, 04:22 PM

All I have to say is OUTSTANDING! I have seen projects linger on forever (ie. me!). That engine is looking nice and that car ought to be a good cruiser when it hits on all 8. I agree with Derek. You guys are fortunate engine swap victims. You have found and pieced together a ton of stuff. It takes most years to accumulate all the necessary parts. With determination and a good work ethic. you have succeeded in months. Derek should put that on his resume. I would give it a second look if it was in my pile.

As for the car not starting, this is more times than not an occurance that happens to weekend shade trees (no offense I hope, that is what I consider myself) I would start with a timing light and a pint of fuel poured into the carb. Keep all appendages away from the carb after the fuel is poured in. If it starts you have a priming issue. if it belches out the carb the timing is advanced, if it belches out the pipes it is retarded. If it just kicks and makes weird noises, well the plug wires are not in the right order. Check for voltage at the dizzy and the ALT.

kboehringer · 07-05-2005, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DAVECS1
......You have found and pieced together a ton of stuff......

Thank You. You have no idea how many little tiny pieces we've been scroungin' around junk yards for. You (and quite a few others) have been helping us from the beginning and know how buggered up this vehicle was. There are have been countless times we've been in the J.Yard and said "Our's doesn't look that like that (or that nice).....we better get that thing also". We've mentioned most of what we're doing but there are other projects (mostly interior) we're also working on.

Quote:

As for the car not starting, this is more times than not an occurance that happens to weekend shade trees (no offense I hope, that is what I consider myself)

None taken. Derek and I ARE weekend shade trees! IMPO we're probably a little better mechanics than many amateurs.

Quote:

If it just kicks and makes weird noises, well the plug wires are not in the right order. Check for voltage at the dizzy and the ALT.

It definately kicks and makes wierd noises! We only had a little bit of time to troubleshoot today because of a B.Ball game. We checked all the plug wires and they're in the correct order and on the correct plugs.

I thought that MAYBE I had installed the Dizzy one plug off. Ya' know how it spins in 1 extra spot as it engages the Cam? We'll I pulled it and turned it back one click, aligned the pump, and dropped it back in. We had even less luck

. Maybe I went the wrong direction...

We'll start over from step #1 and check everything properly. TDC, Compression Stoke, Pointing at #1, etc. etc. We'll also check the voltage at the Dizzy & Alternator as you suggested. I'm confident that I've screwed up the timing, one way or another.

I am taking a four day weekend. Either tomorrow Eve, or Thursday we'll make it run!

Sincerely,
Kurt & Derek (still awake cleaning up the tools)

sellmanb · 07-06-2005, 01:50 AM

If the distributor seats all the way to the intake, then you have it on the right tooth. It just needs to be s