Engine SwapEverything about swapping an engine into your Third Gen.....be it V6, V8, LTX/LSX, crate engine, etc. Pictures, questions, answers, and work logs.
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So, I'm a college student. Bought my car with a 350 from a backyard mechanic who really shouldn't have been under the hood. Engine ended up throwing a rod. Buddy had a working v-6, let me have it for $100, so that's in my car now.
My parents knew how upset I was going from a 350 to a 3.1 (it really is a sad occasion,) so they told me if I get enough money in scholarships to pay for a year of school, they'd pay to have a shop swap a 350 back in. I did the 8-6 swap myself, and I had planned on going back when I got the money, I'm a little sad that I can't do it myself, my car has been my baby since I bought it, but hey, free labor, and free engine, right?
Only thing is, they're making me buy a complete, i.e, turnkey engine for it. I'm not too big on turnkey's, I have no idea really what to look for in one, or whether or not it's even a good idea. Limit is about $3500 for the engine, so far I've found the 'best,' or rather, best looking, deals on ebay. Can anyone throw some light onto this? What should I look for/stay away from? Also, most of the turnkeys on ebay are carb'd, how difficult is the swap from fuel injected to carb'd? I know the shop is going to be doing it, but we aren't made of money, and it's incredibly generous of my parents to be doing this, so I'd rather not have to tack on an extra $1000 or whatever it may be for the injected to carb'd.
so deal with the turn key for a bit, just make sure its somehwat what you want, then later on swap some parts, keep in mind, that turnkey is a helluva jump from that V6
so deal with the turn key for a bit, just make sure its somehwat what you want, then later on swap some parts, keep in mind, that turnkey is a helluva jump from that V6
The car originally had a cammed 350, the v6 was pretty emasculating. Mostly I'm asking if the turnkeys that I find on ebay are reliable.
Most of the companies that sell turnkeys have standalone websites.
And it will be upgraded slowly, I'm just looking for some get-up and go until I can afford to upgrade. That, and theres a fox body on campus that likes to run his mouth
And it will be upgraded slowly, I'm just looking for some get-up and go until I can afford to upgrade. That, and theres a fox body on campus that likes to run his mouth
yeah they're good at that from what i've seen, just make sure you've got some good torque, cuz my engines a crate 305 from gm, no mods, and i still got some get up and go to shut them up lol
Lots of shiny and over-painted stuff. That oil pan and any decent exhaust won't both fit in a 3rd gen chassis. "Reliable" is a crapshoot, because you can't leave feedback when your eBay engine grenades a year or two after you bought it.
"Top shelf?" IMO, Edelbrock carbs belong on the same shelf as Captain Crunch and Coco Puffs.
I would want to know the part number of each and every component they're putting in. The cam and valve springs would be of particular concern.
Single plane intake and street driving are a recipe for disappointment. The Performer RPM is the obvious choice for this type of combo/application.
So, you need engine mounts, exhaust, and transmission.
Lots of shiny and over-painted stuff. That oil pan and any decent exhaust won't both fit in a 3rd gen chassis. "Reliable" is a crapshoot, because you can't leave feedback when your eBay engine grenades a year or two after you bought it.
"Top shelf?" IMO, Edelbrock carbs belong on the same shelf as Captain Crunch and Coco Puffs.
I would want to know the part number of each and every component they're putting in. The cam and valve springs would be of particular concern.
Single plane intake and street driving are a recipe for disappointment. The Performer RPM is the obvious choice for this type of combo/application.
Do you have any better suggestions? Because of the fact that it has to be turnkey, I'm pretty limited.
Is there no engine/race shops where you live? I know of a half dozen within 50 miles of me that can make a turnkey 350 for about the same price but their reputation is way better than an Ebay scammer.
I said in my original post my parents are only going to buy a turnkey.
You asked for a better suggestion. I gave you one.
Perhaps we're stumbling over semantics:
"Turnkey" - What exactly do you think that means? When you're dealing with 3rd gens, that ain't likely in the classical use of the term. Maybe for a 1st or 2nd gen Camaro, or 2nd gen Nova, but not likely for a 3rd gen f-body. Since your V6 engine mounts, exhaust, and transmission won't work on a V8, what's so important about "turnkey"? Nothing out there will "fit" in your car!
"Bolt-in" - as the old saying goes, "There's no such thing as a bolt-in." Double ditto for 3rd gens.
A complete wrecked V8 3rd gen f-body is as close to a "turnkey" system as you're going to find. In fact, I can't think of a better definition of the term.
You asked for a better suggestion. I gave you one.
Perhaps we're stumbling over semantics:
"Turnkey" - What exactly do you think that means? When you're dealing with 3rd gens, that ain't likely in the classical use of the term. Maybe for a 1st or 2nd gen Camaro, or 2nd gen Nova, but not likely for a 3rd gen f-body. Since your V6 engine mounts, exhaust, and transmission won't work on a V8, what's so important about "turnkey"? Nothing out there will "fit" in your car!
"Bolt-in" - as the old saying goes, "There's no such thing as a bolt-in." Double ditto for 3rd gens.
A complete wrecked V8 3rd gen f-body is as close to a "turnkey" system as you're going to find. In fact, I can't think of a better definition of the term.
I already have a 700r4, I can legally run open headers, and mounts are $29. Turnkey as in a complete engine. A turnkey engine is one that, ideally, you drop in, turn the key, and it works. Hence 'turn-key.' Junked cars are not an option, as I already stated. I don't know if you meant to, but please don't speak so condescendingly to me.
And no, I do not know of any shops in my area that deal with domestics. Closest domestic building shop to me is about 100 miles away, that I know of.
Edit- forget that, I just got out of a terrible exam, sorry.
Would you guys recommend going through the stealership for an engine? My local chevy dealer has a zz4 for 4 grand, but I don't know if I'll get a break on labor with that.
Last edited by tchernobog; 12-10-2007 at 07:56 PM.
I went throught the dealership to get my fast burn, and can honestly say it was a pleasant experience. Price is price, and you get a warranty. They even delivered it to a shop of my choice, no charge. Check up on the ZZ4 and compare it to the Fastburn 385, when I went in for the ZZ4 the parts manager mentioned the 385 was only a couple hundred more. So I got it.
I was looking at the ebay engines before I decided to go GM, depending on location maybe one of them is an option - minus the glitter like Five7 says. I was going to go with Prestige before I changed my mind for local repairs.
Was the one I was looking at, you can ask them to change things for you from their web site. I'm biased, I think going with GM is the better option. Can take your car to your dealer for service if anything goes wrong. 2 years 80 000km (Canadian) isn't too shabby, though I wish it were more hehe.
I went throught the dealership to get my fast burn, and can honestly say it was a pleasant experience. Price is price, and you get a warranty. They even delivered it to a shop of my choice, no charge. Check up on the ZZ4 and compare it to the Fastburn 385, when I went in for the ZZ4 the parts manager mentioned the 385 was only a couple hundred more. So I got it.
I was looking at the ebay engines before I decided to go GM, depending on location maybe one of them is an option - minus the glitter like Five7 says. I was going to go with Prestige before I changed my mind for local repairs.
Was the one I was looking at, you can ask them to change things for you from their web site. I'm biased, I think going with GM is the better option. Can take your car to your dealer for service if anything goes wrong. 2 years 80 000km (Canadian) isn't too shabby, though I wish it were more hehe.
The local dealership doesn't have the 385 sadly. I talked to my parents and they said they would rather spend the extra money to get it from a dealership, with a warranty, than screw around with an ebay engine. So, looks like I've got some scholarship-writing work cut out for me.
might i suggest an LS2, 6k at jeggs. yes GM sell thats engine at any dealership. LS2/T-56 combo 30mpg is what your looking for. and i think you can use your 700r4 if you want. on that site i saw the LS2 thats a little more than that 350 and about +90hp. its a carb. https://www.citycratemotors.com/secu...hp?ProductID=9
__________________ 1992 Chevorlet Camaro RS 25th Anniversary
3.1L V6 191ci
K&N filter, new custom exhaust 2.5" downpipe from manifolds back, cat delete, Flowmaster 80's series muffler.
Audio: Alpine CDE-9881 deck, Lanzar Opti500X2, 2 12" SWR-1222D Alpine Type R.
SOON LSx/T-56 swap If I get the money !
might i suggest an LS2, 6k at jeggs. yes GM sell thats engine at any dealership. LS2/T-56 combo 30mpg is what your looking for. and i think you can use your 700r4 if you want
I find it hard to believe that a dealership with the performance logo can't get a hold of the 385. I think the zz4 is the same anyway, just different heads than the 385.
They also quoted me on the RamJet for about the same price:
I find it hard to believe that a dealership with the performance logo can't get a hold of the 385. I think the zz4 is the same anyway, just different heads than the 385.
They also quoted me on the RamJet for about the same price:
I'm sure they could, but they don't have any in stock. I have to call them tomorrow to see if I'll get any kind of break with labor prices if I buy it from them, which would be pretty fantastic.
I'm keeping my options for fuel delivery open, I'd love a carb though. I pretty much grew up working on carb'd 350's, my aunt is a collector, and fuel injection is new-fangled and complicated lol.
I'm keeping my options for fuel delivery open, I'd love a carb though. I pretty much grew up working on carb'd 350's, my aunt is a collector, and fuel injection is new-fangled and complicated lol.
Acutally...its simple, you have injectors, fuel lines, fuel pump, and power, the pump builds pressure in the lines and just sprays the fuel in rather than just dumping it in like a carb. Its an intimidating thing at first but i'll take FI jobs over carb'd ANYDAY, their easier for me to work on and to manage, plus you gotta admit tpi does look pretty sweet lol
Acutally...its simple, you have injectors, fuel lines, fuel pump, and power, the pump builds pressure in the lines and just sprays the fuel in rather than just dumping it in like a carb. Its an intimidating thing at first but i'll take FI jobs over carb'd ANYDAY, their easier for me to work on and to manage, plus you gotta admit tpi does look pretty sweet lol
Mostly I was kidding, I installed new injectors, lines, and a pump in my car, I just like carb's more.
Personal preference, I guess is what it comes down to. That, and with carbs, if something goes wrong, my dad has 30+ years of experience with them.
Right now I've got a 2.73 geared rear end with drum brakes. You guys think I should replace it with some higher gears and disc brakes? I can grab one in the classifieds for $1-200, I'm thinking it'd be worth it.
I bought a 350 HO Deluxe from Jeg's for $200 or so less than my dealership (and I get a discount), but that was a while back. It may be, however, more than you wish to pay. At any rate, though the package is pretty much complete, you'll find that fabrication of various pieces will be required--accessory and throttle brackets, cruise control problems, even dip stick issues should you use headers, drop base air cleaner and so on. I wanted a 'drop in' too, but as Five7kid intimated, there's really no such thing.
I bought a 350 HO Deluxe from Jeg's for $200 or so less than my dealership (and I get a discount), but that was a while back. It may be, however, more than you wish to pay. At any rate, though the package is pretty much complete, you'll find that fabrication of various pieces will be required--accessory and throttle brackets, cruise control problems, even dip stick issues should you use headers, drop base air cleaner and so on. I wanted a 'drop in' too, but as Five7kid intimated, there's really no such thing.
If I buy it from the dealership, I'll be buying a 100% complete engine. I'm well aware that theres no such thing as straight drop-in, it's a figure of speech, and this is really as close as it gets.
Besides, as much as it pains me, I'm not doing the work, a shop/the dealership will be.
Make sure they'll do a non-emissions-compliant swap. Some places won't.
My car is emissions exempt, they already gave me the OK. Unfortunately, they're not giving me any break for the installation labor costs.
But the engine/install comes with a 100,000 mile warranty.
I'm thinking that alone, because its a warranty that can be served at any GM dealership, will justify the extra like $600 it'll cost from the dealership.
By federal regulations, technically there isn't any such thing as "emissions exempt". If the dealership deletes or defeats any part of the emissions system for a street driven vehicle, they could be heavily fined. Local/regional enforcement is the only thing from which you may be "exempt".
But, if they said they'd do it, that's between you and them. Hopefully for their sake there won't be a plain-clothes investigator hanging around when they write up the work order.
GM used to offer an emissions-certified ZZ4 kit, but it was for computer controlled carb models, and has been discontinued. I have a bud who put together a ZZ3 engine with TPI like it was a Vette system. But, no-way/no-how is an Edelbrock carb emissions-compliant on a ZZ4.
By federal regulations, technically there isn't any such thing as "emissions exempt". If the dealership deletes or defeats any part of the emissions system for a street driven vehicle, they could be heavily fined. Local/regional enforcement is the only thing from which you may be "exempt".
But, if they said they'd do it, that's between you and them. Hopefully for their sake there won't be a plain-clothes investigator hanging around when they write up the work order.
GM used to offer an emissions-certified ZZ4 kit, but it was for computer controlled carb models, and has been discontinued. I have a bud who put together a ZZ3 engine with TPI like it was a Vette system. But, no-way/no-how is an Edelbrock carb emissions-compliant on a ZZ4.
Cars prior to 1996 are exempt from emissions checks in my county because they lack OBD ports. Thats what I was told, word for word, at the DMV when I applied for my tag/plates. Even if I was in an emissions county, the car has to pass the emissions standards in the model year, which consists of a visual check for an exhaust system for a car from 1991.
And the zz4 from the stealership comes with a 750 cfm Holley carb.
Last edited by tchernobog; 12-11-2007 at 02:41 PM.
They lack obd-II. We still have obd, and federal laws trump state level laws every time.
Well fortunately I only have to pass state inspection then.
Look, I can take a picture of my last inspection receipt, I just got it inspected less than a month ago, next to all of the emissions options, save exhaust, it says in big bold letters 'N/A'
That doesn't mean shops can remove or defeat emissions systems. The Feds are known to go around and ask shops to do illegal modifications, and when the shops agree or do the mods, slap them with a huge fine.
But, like I already said, if they said they'd do the install, then it's their neck on the line.
i bought my 350 from www.prestigehighperformanceengines.com for under $3500 over the summer. so far im happy with it. And the customer service was great.
!
