Engine SwapEverything about swapping an engine into your Third Gen.....be it V6, V8, LTX/LSX, crate engine, etc. Pictures, questions, answers, and work logs.
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Hey guys, I'm Alan. I have a 1988 IROC Z with a Buick 3.8 SFI Turbo V6, th400, 9" with 3.27's. Still tuning this beast, but its a blast. My webpage is www.aaperformance.org. check it out! Hope to talk to lots of you.
Hey Alan, welcome aboard! Just posted some pics of another 3.8 Buick swap in an '86 Firebird over in the Power Adder section. Was gonna link it, but then I figured, ahh I'll just post it up for you guys here. I seriously was going to go the same exact route as you, but the L98 w/Turbo concept far out weighed it (literally) lol....
Dude! Thats BAAD! I must know more about this car, and i wanted to be the first in the 8s maybe ill be first in a camaro. I was trying to get there last Nov, at Renalds GA when my stock GN module went haywire , blew the K1 rods out both sides of my stage 2 vergine block. I switch over to MSD dist, and Crane HI 6 box no more glitches for me and the car cranks and runs better and is easer to tune now with out the wast spark.
I'm really liking your Camaro Alan, and I'm looking forward to seeing some sub nine second video of it hauling @ss down the track. I've never seen a Buick 3.8 Turbo in a Camaro before, freaking awesome idea man....
I recently found out who the owner of that Black TTA was myself, and I'm hoping to get a glimpse of the car making it's way either down Atco, Cecil or Englishtown very very soon. Gotta love those turbo Buick engine's....
-Rob
__________________ '90 Trans Am GTA: 305 w/the stock TPI system... and T88 Turbo.
Fastest 305 on the planet...
I'd much rather be stroked first... then blown. Wouldn't you?
How hard of a swap was it to put the v6 in the Camaro. Im assuming the motor bolts right in but what about the electronics? Id love to have a real TTA but they're priced out of my range maybe a swap would be a cheaper way to go since I already have the car to put it in and its only a 305 so it would'nt be a big loss.
One of my all time "wish builds" is to put a GN motor in an '80 or '81 Turbo T/A since they dont have that great a rap, and then go blow some doors off. The power of a GN in a beautiful 2nd gen T/A would be hard to beat.
Nah, at over $3 a gallon for 87 octane, part of the appeal is the 6cyl's better mileage. The last thing I need is another car I cant afford to drive, been down that road enough to have thoroughly gotten over it. If it were strictly a show or race car that would be one thing but Im also tired of cars that I cant just get in and drive whenever and where ever I want.
How hard of a swap was it to put the v6 in the Camaro. Im assuming the motor bolts right in but what about the electronics? Id love to have a real TTA but they're priced out of my range maybe a swap would be a cheaper way to go since I already have the car to put it in and its only a 305 so it would'nt be a big loss.
One of my all time "wish builds" is to put a GN motor in an '80 or '81 Turbo T/A since they dont have that great a rap, and then go blow some doors off. The power of a GN in a beautiful 2nd gen T/A would be hard to beat.
It wasnt a walk in the park thats for sure. Caspers Electronics made the wiring harness to it was plug-n-play. I was running headers so I had to notch the frame, and cut some of the car up for the intercooler. If you check out the website, it tells step by step about the swap. But it was worth it IMO.
I was wondering if you had problems around the heads since Pontiac used a different head than the GNs to solve their fit problem. I very briefly looked at the site, I plan on checking it out more thoroughly a little later. It looks like a fun car for sure!
Guys you can call me any time, ill do my best to answer any questions about the swap after you have read the article about ALANS 88 ZNX. It should cover most everything but i know theres allways something you leave out or forget when writing those stories www.aaperformance.org
I have seen alans car in person and he did an excelent job with the conversion. I was also at Reynolds when he blew it up what a shame. I have an 87 formula with a turbo buick in it what a great swap.
__________________ 87 formula
234cid girdled turbo buick pt70 p-trim, ported iron heads, 220in 224ex .579in 596ex, 1.65rr, ported intake, PTE plenum, 70mm tb, th350 rdneck t-brake, PTC 4200, jegster adj ta, jegster adj lca's, strange 12 3.42gear, pa racing tubular k-member, pa racing coilovers, 325/50/15 hoosier dr's, best 60ft 1.34, best 1/8mi 6.22 @ 109.61mph best 1/4 9.81@ 133.37
Hi guys ive been away for a wile. Ill give some updates. We have been trying all kinds of different combos with this car so every other week things were changed like cam,heads,inj,fast programs,converters. The combo in it at this time is a standerd bore 3.8 iron head ported by us TnD roller rockers comp 224 roller, 75lb inj. 70mm tb ,74GTQ turbo Razors Alky 3800stall, th400 ford9" 3.50gears. Best ET with this combo on 93 pump gas and alky with 21psi max boost leaving on transbrake at 10psi 60ft 1.55 shifting at 6100 it ran 10.42 at 133. The cool thing is this combo gets 19mpg with the cruse set at 70 mph engine rpms 3000 Some things we haved learned that weeked on those 9 passes with out any big problems for a change, was numbers 3 and 4 cyl, were very lean it even melted an electrod on number 3 on one pass. So were allready changing it up a bit. New changes egt probs on all cyl for cyl corection tunning 1" spacer and RJC power plate to corect most of the turbulent air, and my old set of GN1 alum heads maybe we can get a 10.0 out of it before we turn up the boost to 25psi We'll keep you posted.
Yes they are. And i can say these things cause ive been there done that meaning. With these little V6s you catch your self talking to other buick owners and saying things like, this one only making 750hp the other one was 900hp and when im done at the track today ill just turn the boost back down and get 20mpg on the way back home. I never used to say thing like that when i was racing the 412cid super ram AFR headed motor making around 430hp that wouldnt go faster than 12.20s 112. Or my blown 454 in 67 camaro making around 800hp geting 0mpg make that less than 0, its loud and smells like gas and only runs low 10s but it will melt a set of 29 11.5 slicks.
No chicks want to ride in it you cant hear the radio. Thats why we all have started running these V6s mega hp streetable as your grandmas buick and gets good milage what elce can you ask for in a streetcar besides have you ever seen the face of guy with a $100000 moded Z06 that you just beat him with a V6 IROC its priceless. Just helped a kid tune up his 86 GN regal he bought on ebay, put on the basic mods turbo, chip,inj,downpip, and he went picking on a 06 Kenny Bell supercharged Cobra and naturaly beat him and the regal has 20" wheels.The little engine are grate wether there in a 3300lb camaro or a 3800lb regal
Yes they are. And i can say these things cause ive been there done that meaning. With these little V6s you catch your self talking to other buick owners and saying things like, this one only making 750hp the other one was 900hp and when im done at the track today ill just turn the boost back down and get 20mpg on the way back home. I never used to say thing like that when i was racing the 412cid super ram AFR headed motor making around 430hp that wouldnt go faster than 12.20s 112. Or my blown 454 in 67 camaro making around 800hp geting 0mpg make that less than 0, its loud and smells like gas and only runs low 10s but it will melt a set of 29 11.5 slicks.
No chicks want to ride in it you cant hear the radio. Thats why we all have started running these V6s mega hp streetable as your grandmas buick and gets good milage what elce can you ask for in a streetcar besides have you ever seen the face of guy with a $100000 moded Z06 that you just beat him with a V6 IROC its priceless. Just helped a kid tune up his 86 GN regal he bought on ebay, put on the basic mods turbo, chip,inj,downpip, and he went picking on a 06 Kenny Bell supercharged Cobra and naturaly beat him and the regal has 20" wheels.The little engine are grate wether there in a 3300lb camaro or a 3800lb regal
:
Very well said... That's why I dropped small blocks and the bottle. No driveablity.. poor MPG and loud.
Now I've got dependabiillty... Great MPG and it's stupid quiet!
What more can you ask for?
__________________ 427 RHS block 98mm turbo 4L80E going back to a torque arm. In progress!
Wrong year and setup... IF you doing a GN engine it'll be 86/7 only. And only from a GN.
You could do a 98 up firebird/Camaro 3.8L and turbo those. Edit ECM wiht HPTuners. I've done two of those now with great results.
One's at 12.70's@108mph. Stock engine/trans.
~Scott
__________________ 427 RHS block 98mm turbo 4L80E going back to a torque arm. In progress!
Wrong year and setup... IF you doing a GN engine it'll be 86/7 only. And only from a GN.
You could do a 98 up firebird/Camaro 3.8L and turbo those. Edit ECM wiht HPTuners. I've done two of those now with great results.
One's at 12.70's@108mph. Stock engine/trans.
~Scott
Ok makes sense, The guy never got back with me anyway
it should be easy finding one of those engines
you can turbo any engine and get similar results. it doesnt have to be a buick 3.8, although they are great engines.
you have to build the engine to last though.
you cant use cast parts and expect it to take boost.
same rule applies as if you are using nitrous.
build the engine as if it was going to be making the power NA or you will be sorry and start blowing up parts.
power of a GN in a beautiful 2nd gen T/A would be hard to beat.
That's my plan with my '79 Esprit. She was originally a V6 car, so the I think it would be awesome to stay in that configuration. She'll stay as an Esprit on the outside, but will beat all the stock T/As on the road (not planning to race or drag though).
But to do this, I have to find a complete Turbo assembly that I can fit on the original block and heads, or better an 84-87 GN motor but I have next to zero chance to find this in France.
I've never seen anyone do this to a 2nd Gen, I think it's too "simple" to just go the V8 way.
Thanks for jumping in there for me Scott, ive been working so much lately, that I havent had time to post anything. We've been trying so many things with this set up, i killed my GN1 allum. heads, so now i am running some 8441 iron heads i ported and a new .224 solid comp roller. but with the new Scorpion hyd roller lifters & 150lb springs, it idles like a stock Buick Centry! It is so smooth & the only way to tell its running is to see the belt turning. It builds boost much faster now. Havent had a chance to check fuel milage yet cause i cant keep my foot out of it long enough!!
Oh yeah, the 127k mile GN broke the crank the other day...due to lack of fuel pressure. The 8 yr old fuel pump retired without notice! But its back together with all the usual suspects =)
Hi Guys, I'm thinking of changing all of my frontend parts to the Spon tubular chrome molly parts. coil overs and rack and pinion. How much weight can I really shave off doing that? I have seen a carbon fibor hood on ebay but there is no weight numbers. My 2" Harwood flew off by mistake, it was very light and 10 years old. I got the new 3" cowl and it is blown fiberglass and i would bet its as heavy as the stock steel hood. Im taking the rear seats, seat belts and speakers out now, and i found out there worth 65lbs. My goal is to get it back down to 3300 race weight it is 3650 know. Any suggestions?
I put all the pices of my old Harwood 2" cowl hood together on a scale and it weighted 20lbs. I knew it was light. So we weighted the new Harwood 3" cowl, it weighted 45lbs. I called about those carbon fibor hoodsand they said they were 35lbs. I think thats to heavy for $700. I will keep looking for an old 2" cowl.
Its been a wile and a few engines sence I posted here, so here are some up dates. My detiort locker gave way last weekend at the track. I overnighted a new one and it looked simeler but not the same. After calling the Detiort 800 # I found out that mine was a Chinese knock off, it even had EATON/DETIORT LOCKER on it but it was a fake. Ive had it in the car for about three years but just started using the transbrake lately. It lasted about 15 passes then the gutts crumbeled. I have seen alot of this fake crap in the automotive industry lately and a lot of good engines have died due to it.
just put a pin on hood on there, they weigh 13-15 pounds total
__________________ 2011 chicago world of wheels placed in super street class
Best Engine '11 Thirdgenfest
Best Modified Camaro Thirdgenfest '05, '07, '11 Second place Camaro Modified '06, '08, & '10
MFBA March 2008 Featured Calendar Vehicle
Well, if it was spelled "Detiort", that should have been your first clue. . .
I put 15 passes on my 9" Detroit True Trac behind the LS1/T56 this past Saturday. I keep hearing you need to hit it (and the locker version) immediately and hard when you start the burn-out - no easing into it. I have video of most of my passes, and it locked immediately and completely each time. And, it was fine on the drive to work this morning.
I didn't buy this one, the shop that put the center section together ordered it (not sure of their source).
Crap my bad. It was spelled correctly (detroit). I bought the Mosser 9" from a guy on another web site. The locker came with it I dont know if he knew about it or not. It has been three yearsI didnt think there was any reason to bother him about it.
The car has gone through a lot of changes this past month, we stumbeled on to some key go fast info with these turbos, bigger is not always better. We made three changes, and not including the turbo and the car picked up 10 mph and 1sec. Last pass at the track was 10.33 132 nov.7.09
Here is the link to the new 9.44 @ 146
Oh yea and nothing I have changed has hurt the gas milage. It gets better than my wife's new 2010 C6.3 AMG 450hp. That car sucks gas it only gets around 12 to 15 in the city, but it is fast and fun to smoke the tires. People look at you funny cause Mercks ant supose to do that.
Well this is the latest version GN1s not ported and not Rs. Went to stronger valve springs, new TnD Jessel style rockers to handle the new spring psi, the scorpion style would not handle it or the rpms. We are turning this motor 6800. The new smaller turbo is a new billet ball bearing 71 from persion. Took off the PTE74GTQ they make the same power but the new 71 makes it a lot faster and I mean faster. Made some tuning in the spool up part witch helped. The turbo didnt make the biggest difrence we still only ran 6.50 @ 104 in the 8th still taking for ever to spool up. The biggest dif, was springs, rpms, spoolup tune and going from 21psi to 25psi. It wouldnt do that with the old springs. With only those changes we went 6.08 @116 I think the transbrake just weeded out all the week links in the drive line that needed beefing up anyway. Havent broken anything latley and I always use TB cause it set off the XFI logger. All the new tricks took some getting use to cause on one staging were I was use to how slow it would spool I could controll the boost on the line around 10psi. When I red lighted and it logged that I left on 21psi @5600 I wasnt ready for how fast it spooled up. Now we are adding a AMS 1000.
I love the XFI it will do everything you can think of. Every time I think of something else to control or monitor the FXI can do it, and you can remove all the vacume hob switches that used to do everything for you. After you in stall the egt probes, you can now add or take out fuel or timing in each cly.At one time I was removing 8 degreas timing out and add 13 percent fuel to # 3cyl to keep from blowing the headgasket. Speeking of RJC and headgaskets I have blown his new ones two times am running Cometics right now and they are holding sofar. We RJCs on another car with no probleme. Go figuer. Had to get a new RJC lower crank pulley mine cracked all up. He said it was only made for a stock belt tenisioner. I have a Champion one and had to keep tightening it to stop the belt from squiling. I did see that he has come out with a new style, about a month agoe, go figure. I like Jason and run most of his stuff, sometimes it fales sometimes it dont. I am running low 9s with a stock style waste gate and a RJC $45 boots valve. I have the head clamps that have been ground up all over to fit ATR headers and they work great. I took the RJC restricktor plat (just kidding) power plate, off and didnt see any improvement or loss. Go figure. Andre just got a new RJC trans mount it bolt to the back of the block and comes over to the Regal frame rail and dose away with the engine strap or turn buckel from the alt, bracket. He loves it, sayes it picks up on the car and takes the presure off the mount.
I have a XFI on the wife's Typhoon.. it took hardly any tuning for that to drive like a stock truck.. it is amazing.
Made me that much more ready to switch to XFI in the Camaro. I really need more information in order to put more power in it.
The adjustable fuel map tables were what I was most intersted in... I drive my car daily in the summer and get about 18mpg.. but there is much room for improvement there if I had more adjustability in the fuel tables that Classic FAST just can't do.
I had the RJC plate in my car too.. I removed it and made my own stainless steel screen to ballance the air. I felt the plate was too restrictive.
With the smaller turbo did you see your IAT's go up?
Thanks for sharing your info for myself and others!
~Scott
__________________ 427 RHS block 98mm turbo 4L80E going back to a torque arm. In progress!
Cant realy tell about IATs our weather changes so much down here and my Alcky sprays so close to it that it cools off so quick. All I can tell is this summer we where at the track and it was about 8:30 pm out side temp was 92 humidity was 86 we were pouring swet, the turbo wouldnt spool for nothing. I left the line and the IAT was 105 by second grear it was 68. On a 60 degree day ive logged IATs on the line at 80 and by second it was 48 thats cool.
I know what you mean about the Clasic Fast. We just tuned a new customers T Type Ed Means go check it out on the site, anyway it has a old Fast and every time we tryed to do something that would be so basic and easy and convenient on the XFI it was very frustrating what it wouldnt do. If you need help with the Fuel Tables call Brian 601 497 6608 he loves to help, NOT like some other people. Brian tuned the IROC all weekend when it went 9s.
Im not putting the Clasic down lots of guys have gone very fast on one but I started out on the XFI and can see how bad your hands are tyed trying to tune and I knottiest how slow it up dated, it was like 7 fps and the XFI up dates like 40 fps.
Something Ive been forgetting to tell. I finally found a 4" round cone style air filter for my inlet pipe . I got it at Orileys auto parts. It is made with just a fine wire mesh. No paper or foam. It flows air as if no air filter was on there. Now I only run it at the track for quick spool up. I wouldnt use it for every day use, small dust will get through. Think it was about $35.
Its been a wile but i had some time to put the new time up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkShxLLKkog
New 9.44 pass and is still so streetable it just dont make sence.
I switch over to MSD dist, and Crane HI 6 box no more glitches for me and the car cranks and runs better and is easer to tune now with out the wast spark. 
87 formula 
