Engine SwapEverything about swapping an engine into your Third Gen.....be it V6, V8, LTX/LSX, crate engine, etc. Pictures, questions, answers, and work logs.
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Specs on that cam weren't bad, but Im looking for a Cam & Lifter Set. I looked up some COMP Cams Xtreme Energy Cam and Lifter Kits, and found a cam with a little more lift with a little wider powerband for $180.
those heads will need steam holes for the block. Also need vortec intake for those heads. Should work ok but i'd rather see a larger intake valve on those heads for that runner size. fastburns seem to be ok heads but for the same price i think you could do better with a set of brodix or darts
springs in that head tho out the box may be abit much for a flat tappet cam but i'm not sure of the specs, have to check with Brodix. 1.43 dual springs are usually roller springs.
those darts arent bad either. 200cc with single springs for .520 lift but that cam is pushing that limit. They have the 1.43 inch spring as well which i'm not sure if thats too much for flat tappets or not. have to check the spring specs
this setup sounds nice. i have a fast burn heads that has 5 minutes of use on it. i will sell for $675.00 the other fast burn i have had a washer hit the head, can be fixed. i was told by machinest it would cost $100-150 to fix. let me know if intrested. also have a set of gm 1.5 roller rockers with about 20k on them.
While Im still deciding and researching Cams/Intakes/Heads I decided I could order some small stuff just to get it ordered. I chose a Water Pump, Fuel Pump, and a new Dipstick. Everything look fine before I order this stuff:
Here are the pics I promised..I finally got time to upload them today. I also put the new oil pump in, painted the block gloss black, and put the new oil pan on.
Sorry about the sizes:
Very clean, everything is cleaning up real nice. Definetely looking like a rebuilt engine. Cylinder Walls look really good too. Let me know what you guys think, and if you want more pics of something let me know.
Also, Ill be ordering the water pump, fuel pump, and oil dipstick probably tonight.
I got my parts two days ago an put them in the box with all the other new parts. Next is the Heads, Cam, & Intake but Im still not sure on all of that. I still need to research and get advice.
Any replies to the pics I posted? How does everything look?
I see what you mean, Ill put some batteries in the camera and try an get some clearer pics tonight. Currently working on a Senior project that I have to present tomorrow morning to graduate at the end of the year lol.
I see what you mean, Ill put some batteries in the camera and try an get some clearer pics tonight. Currently working on a Senior project that I have to present tomorrow morning to graduate at the end of the year lol.
No worries just got back from presenting. I did mine on Landscaping & Lawncare, and passed of course. The 5 teachers I had were laid back, I had a good time. Back to the engine lol, I took pics late last night but didnt have a chance to upload them. Ill upload them now and post them up, hopefully they arent as blurry.
I assume you are bumping because you want more opinions on your latest pictures.
While still a little fuzzy, it appears the cylinder walls still show crosshatch with some carbon scratching. The piston crowns have quite a bit of deposits on them, look a little funky. I'd take it apart, clean up the pistons including ring glands, do a quick glaze break on the cylinders with a ball-type glaze breaker (just a quick run up & down - don't grind away on the cylinders), wash out the block thoroughly, new bearings if they show any wear (the cam bearings do, I'd replace them - wash out the block while the old bearings are out), new rings, put it back together.
I can't tell if you've decided on heads. Those are pretty big dished pistons, 64cc aluminum or slightly larger iron heads should give decent compression. While you're cleaning the pistons, perhaps you can find a part number/brand on them.
I assume you are bumping because you want more opinions on your latest pictures.
While still a little fuzzy, it appears the cylinder walls still show crosshatch with some carbon scratching. The piston crowns have quite a bit of deposits on them, look a little funky. I'd take it apart, clean up the pistons including ring glands, do a quick glaze break on the cylinders with a ball-type glaze breaker (just a quick run up & down - don't grind away on the cylinders), wash out the block thoroughly, new bearings if they show any wear (the cam bearings do, I'd replace them - wash out the block while the old bearings are out), new rings, put it back together.
I can't tell if you've decided on heads. Those are pretty big dished pistons, 64cc aluminum or slightly larger iron heads should give decent compression. While you're cleaning the pistons, perhaps you can find a part number/brand on them.
Yup wanted more opinions. You guys have been a big help so far, hopefully youll be there til the end. No I havent decided on heads yet, I like the price of the Fastburns and everything about them but I think I can only run up to a certain size cam but I could be wrong. If so I need help choosing some heads so I can go ahead and order a Cam & LIfter Set. I plan on cleaning the pistons, they should clean up fairly easy I think, just wiping the one it came pretty clean. The Cam bearings I believe are the ones that still have paint on them and didnt look bad, not sure tho. Now will any honing be required or just a glaze ball be all I need? Those pistons my dad even said arent normal pistons, there wont be anything wrong with running these if I pick the right heads right?
Just asking alot of questions cuz Im very eager to learn.
We stick with those who are using their head. You seem to be using your head.
There isn't a very good look at the cam bearings, just the one quarter view of the block that shows the front bearing has at least worn into the first layer. That bearing takes the load of the timing chain, so it will usually show the most wear. If there is no copper showing through, they're probably okay. But, worn cam bearings will lead to low oil pressure, so don't discount their importance.
Fast Burns will handle .600" lift. How big of a cam were you thinking of using?
Honing removes material from the cylinder walls. It is for the final surface finish and bore size when overboring the cylinders. If all you are doing is putting in new rings, you just need a "rough" surface for them to wear into - that's what the ball glaze breaker does, and it does the job quickly. You don't want to use it to remove scratches, ridge, etc. - that's removing too much material. If what's in your pictures represents the worst of it, those scratches are insignificant.
I assume the block is already bored .030" over - that's about all the typical factory 400 block can handle safely.
If you like the fast burns, use them. They are a ok head for your goals. Should support some decent power.
since your doing flat tappet, i'd run something similar to the comp 284, maybe the smaller 274 for better street manners but i think that 400 will eat up 240 degrees duration so it should do well
I agree. I would take it all apart. You already have it on a stand. It's a 30 year old motor. Who knows what it's been through. Check out the crank and bearings. Who knows what you'll find. Sometimes an engine can run fine even with something that's messed up. At least you can be 100 percent confident that it will be reliable after you put it in.
Be preventative; catch it now before it wipes out your whole setup.
Keep this thread updated. I would like to follow to see how your build turned out. I just picked up a 509 casting 400 for $325 bucks. I have not tore it down yet. It ran before being pulled. If everything looks good, I will be doing a budget rebuild and start searching for a decent set of heads to go on it. I intend to put this in my 89 Iroc along with a long tail th350. I have set of superior axles and a 4th gen posi sitting in storage to beef up my rear end a little bit. I'll be using a performer RPM and at least a 750 DP.
I am trying to do it as cheap as possible for now since I have a mortgage, car payment etc. No money to really be throwing into my cars.
I just broke into the 12s last friday (first time racing ever!) with my 01 Z28 with only a ory pipe and slp lid. So I definitely won't put my Iroc on the road again unless it's as fast or faster than this car. lol
I have a strong urge to dump the 400 and hold out for a Lsx style motor but I still enjoy the simplicity and especially the sound of the Gen 1 motors.
I missed out on the Heads, the first one interested ended up purchasing them. UMI Performance was having a 15% off Group Purchase so I ordered a good bit of my new suspension.
I ordered Subframe Connectors, Panhard Bar & Lower Control Arms, Wonder Bar, & TH400 Torque Arm & Crossmember today. After Tax (Their based in PA) & Shipping the total came out to about $850 for everything, not bad I dont think. I ordered everything in a Black Powder Coat finish.
I also bought a 2 1/2 in cowl induction hood for $200. Its in good shape, just a few knicks I can take care of. Its alot lighter than I thought it would be!
bowtie heads are a good choice they are casting number 034 they were not a production head they were a GMPP casting. that is a reasonable price for them. Those were what I had on my 406 then decided to do the big block swap. you will need to either drill the cooling holes in the head or take them to a machine shop and let them do it. It was $60 when they did mine they were over priced on a lot of stuff though so it might be cheaper for you. they have a dart style combustion chamber. There is different generations too so check for the added features (I'll let you look up the rest).
14011034........................Bowtie, cast iron, 64cc chambers,
184cc port volume, angle plug,
"Phase II" head
jstoltz is correct in almost everything he posted in his last message. Your going to get mixed reviews on the steam holes. I never drilled the heads for steam holes and i never had a problem with my 406 running hot. I ran a factory radiator and a single fan on my 406. It never reached more than 180 on our hottest days. The option is there though ig you think you need to.
The steam holes aren't about the engine temperature getting too high. They are about hot spots in the cooling jacket when water is turned to steam, gets trapped between the cylinders, and cannot conduct heat away from the metal.
alright, im sorry to tell you, i dont know if anyone else told you this, but that engine needs an acid bath, it runs 70 bucks out here, however much it is out here, you need it, look at your own pictures, look in the holes around the head bolts, do you see all that rust in there, just imagine that coming off into your oil pump or water pump(wichever) while your goin down the track, do you want to experience that, of the money you are spending, take it back in the shop, pull the engine, and go from there, i wouldnt, everyone has told you do it right the first time, take all the stuff off, crank, rods, pistons, keep track of what piston goes to what cylinder, keep track of your mains too, gm had different bores to different cylinders, the smallest difference, but rarely you will find an exact match block. if you can take your finger, scratch the cylinder, from the center in, and if you nail catches the lip of the cylinder, bore it out, no arguement about that. at this point, see if you need to bore it, and if not, have it acid dipped, and bored if needed, honed too, get a bore, get a hone!!!! while its at the machine shop, spend the money, get piston rings and main bearings, its worth it, trust me. then when you get it back, build it from the crank up. also have them surface where the heads go, ill tell you right now, you need it bad. torque everything down to specs, put everything back where it came from, and paint it as you please. also while you are waiting for the block, clean the pistons yourslef, dont sand, you can use some air tools, or even steel wool. it works great, remember pistons are aluminum, its soft, dont beat the hell out of it. clean it till it shines, dont use any cleaner or polisher. if you really want to build a race engine, drop off the rods and pistons along with the block, and have them balanced. you do need that. do not ever let the machine shop build your engine, do it yourself. im sorry for the long message, but i can go on for days about what to do with your motor. if you have any questions, just ask, there is no such thing as a dumb question when it comes to building an engine, cuz there is no guy on here i bet that has ever just torn an engine to pieces and rebuilt it with no answers, and no idea of what they are doin, they asked those questions, and learned alot.
alright, im sorry to tell you, i dont know if anyone else told you this, but that engine needs an acid bath, it runs 70 bucks out here, however much it is out here, you need it, look at your own pictures, look in the holes around the head bolts, do you see all that rust in there, just imagine that coming off into your oil pump or water pump(wichever) while your goin down the track.
There was/is NO rust on the block anywhere, sorry. What you see is the old Head Gasket, it was red.
As for the Cylinder walls they need honed (cleaned), not bored out.
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I started to clean the right side of the block in this picture, no rust.
Last edited by Stippy17; 11-05-2008 at 03:07 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
You need to drill any head for steam holes if you are going to run them on a 400. This is any easy task, and can be done with a drill at home.
I plan on drilling steam holes in whatever heads I buy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstoltz
bowtie heads are a good choice they are casting number 034 they were not a production head they were a GMPP casting. that is a reasonable price for them. Those were what I had on my 406 then decided to do the big block swap. you will need to either drill the cooling holes in the head or take them to a machine shop and let them do it. It was $60 when they did mine they were over priced on a lot of stuff though so it might be cheaper for you. they have a dart style combustion chamber. There is different generations too so check for the added features (I'll let you look up the rest).
14011034........................Bowtie, cast iron, 64cc chambers,
184cc port volume, angle plug,
"Phase II" head
I plan on going with Aluminum GM FastBurn Heads for my build, what do you think of those?
The fastburns are a good choice. There is also a fellow on one of my local racing sites selling a set of AFRs for 600 bucks. They have a 220cc intake runner and are the old style AFR head, whatever "old style" means. I can email you his email.
Last edited by Codename 47; 11-06-2008 at 01:05 AM.
The original heads were probably 76cc. Fast Burns are 62cc. The aluminum means you can run about a half point more compression than you would with cast iron heads. The big dish in those pistons would make 62cc a cakewalk.
The original heads were probably 76cc. Fast Burns are 62cc. The aluminum means you can run about a half point more compression than you would with cast iron heads. The big dish in those pistons would make 62cc a cakewalk.
The original heads were probably 76cc. Fast Burns are 62cc. The aluminum means you can run about a half point more compression than you would with cast iron heads. The big dish in those pistons would make 62cc a cakewalk.
What would be the reason whoever rebuilt this block used this big of a dish pistons with stock Heads, Intake, & probably Carb? The cam may have been aftermarket, but were they trying to accomplish something by using these pistons?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Codename 47
Yeup. You'll be just fine on premium pump gas.
If you had to guess, what kind of compression would you say Id be running?
