jlc84cam350

is a 350 rocket out of a 69 cutlass big or small block and is it a big job to put in, curently running normal 350 sbc carbed engine. do i need different motor mounts and what else? it will bolt to my 5-speeed tranny aye?

Apeiron

It's not a big block or a small block, it's an Oldsmobile.

Rok_Stars_Bars

the 350 is a SBO (small block olds) 307,330,350,and 403 are all SBO. 400, 425, and 455 is all BBO (Big Block Olds)

Get the Chebby get of the OLDS dude... I got a Olds 307 in my 87 camaro right now. Check out Oldspower.com for good info like that. Alot of knowledge there.

Klortho

Different motor mounts, different bellhousing for the transmission, different clutch setup.

jlc84cam350

ok i didn't think it was that much work, i thought i woulda just needed motor mounts and thats it, thought it bolted right up to the tranny thanks anyways.

Rok_Stars_Bars

chevy has a different bellhousing from Buick Olds Pontiac and Cadallic have the same. If it is an automatic you can buy a conversion kit at summit racing for like $70 -100

jlc84cam350

i doubt they would make a bell housing to bolt up to a t-5 aye?

Rok_Stars_Bars

check out a oldsmobile forum for special details and great deals

jlc84cam350

i'm on their right now checking out. thanks

Rok_Stars_Bars

Yeah just post the question you post here on there. They love this. I tell you the first thing you will hear is get that CHebby motor out LOL... Oldspower.com and Realoldspower.com I personally like Oldspower.com . Realoldspower seems like a more serious forum. Where Oldspower.com is more like family

jlc84cam350

haha nice iv just herd these 350 rockets are beasts and can take quiet a bit of abuse, thats why i'm interested i can get a good one here for 400$ just smokes a bit on start up, id be rebuilding it this winter in college hehe.

Rok_Stars_Bars

Yeah the Olds 350 are quite good. IF you get a SBO 350 look at the number on the left (driver side) head. If it is 8 that is a smog head which seem to be real common and ownly has like 180 hp stock. The heads you want is a 5,6, or 7A. All great head and puts out power. With a head swap alone you can get at least 50 hp comparing it to the 8 head. What I like a olds to you can take junk yard and make a great engine. Might take some search but you can get some good numbers if you know thje combo

jlc84cam350

the heads are #5's dude its out of an 69 olds cutlass, im guessing its good those are the golden years in my opinion lol

Rok_Stars_Bars

Man that motor should be a beast... Especially if you could add a cam and intake with some headers

bjankuski

If you are looking for power a 350 Olds is not the hot ticket. The heads do not flow enough air and the blocks are weak and cannot take RPM. Sure you can make them go but it is not cost effective. Build a 350 chevy it will cost less and be faster.

I am not biased towards chevy I am just laying out the facts. I currently have a Pontiac Ventura drag car powered by a 455 olds that runs high 10's, I built this because it was different.

Rok_Stars_Bars

LOL... I think you are alittle biased. Go to Oldspower.com and Realoldspower.com and prove your point to them and not a group of chebby guys. I agree on one thing a chebby is cheaper to build. Hell, they sell chebby parts at kmart. I was goin to go into more detail but it wouldn't change nothing.

Apeiron

On a horsepower-per-dollar and horsepower-per-effort basis, the Chevy is a better idea than the Olds.

jlc84cam350

well the thing is its kinda hard to find a chevy 350 pushisng 300+ hp stock, i don't mind doing a rebuild on it but its just i been looking and can't find anything thats in my opinion good, i'm only find 70-80's smoggers which push an amazing 140-180hp! lol any idea's where i could find anything, i wanna get something at around 350hp, and i wanna go carbed. I just mentioned this engine cause i found one for pretty cheap, it don't need much to be a good engine, i'didn't think it needed that much to fit it in but i'm having second thoughts.

Rok_Stars_Bars

DUDE ... Don't doubt yourself. That Olds 350 engine with 5 heads is a great motor. D Miller said 5 heads are the best SBO heads made. And its wrong to think about putting a Chebby engine in a OLDS. Check out this links everything question you every could have about a OLDS is here even quick power tips

http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/oldsfaq.htm

89RsPower!

that's really the other way around.. and are you talking flywheel hp rwhp? Most olds engines are rated at the flywheel since thats the way it was done at the time.. not really an even comparison.. anyway if your doing it to be different I'd say go for it.. if you are trying to go fast on a budget it's not the best idea.. also are you buidling a copy of a factory engine? If not factory ratings are meaningless. Building a 350 hp sbc 350 is simple, has been done a million times, and will defently be cheaper. But like I said if you are doing it just to be different than by all means, post pics as you go.
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camaros are chevys..

jlc84cam350

i don't know if it would be cheaper but i my original plan was to go with a good oll smoger 350, rebuild with flat tops, vortec heads, and the edelbrock intake that works with these heads and carb, 750 holly dp, comp cam, i was gonne use an xe268 but was told the vortec engine like flat patern cams, so i was undecided on that, and i would have gone with some flowmaster shorties. I assumed around 13-1500$ it could be done. is their any cheaper ways you guys would think to get to 300-350 hp with a chev engine, i still kinda wanna go get that olds 350 hehe for the price i don't care ill just put her in a 80's cutlass later on.

Rok_Stars_Bars

HUH...ooo i forgot my bad. I thought he was asking about a rocket engine a OLDS

Hey is a pic of my OLDS in my 3rd gen camaro
http://cardomain.com/ride/573113

Xlr8torZ28

iTrader: (19)

The T5 will actually bolt to a Muncie bellhousing, unless its a "World Class" T5. The T5 also has the same input shaft teeth as the old school muncie clutches. I use to have a T5 in my "79 Z28, but I got tired of blowing them up because they are weak.

jlc84cam350

and the muncie 4-speeds were used on the oldmobile's?, so i'd just use the clutches off a t5 or the muncie? cause i know where i can get one lol, btw i know the t5's aren't that tough by i don't beat that bad on my vehicles.

Apeiron

You have to compare apples to apples... the dinosaur engines you're looking at were rated in gross HP, not net. Besides that though, if you're rebuilding it why would you do things as badly as the factory did instead of improving it.

Absolutely you can put an Oldsmobile engine into your Camaro, if you want to go through the trouble of finding all the more rarer-and-more-expensive 40-year-old-based-on-even-older-technology used parts you need because there's little aftermarket support all to get only 350 HP instead of choosing something from the common-as-dirt family of engines that the car was originally designed for with absolutely hands-down the largest selection of factory and aftermarket parts available for any engine family from any manufacturer.

If you do all that you'll find that the Oldsmobiles are sure great engines... just like the Chevys.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

This thread is proof positive that dilution is a powerful drug.

Olds engines weren't big or small block, as Apeiron said early on. There were short and tall decks, but not "small" or "big" block.

While the '69 350 might be one of the better Olds 350's, is still isn't all that great. As already said, you'll make more power for the money building a Chevy 350 with modern available parts.

If you want to be "different", go ahead. "Different" is nothing more than another way to say "more expensive" and "slower".

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

This is absolutely true.

Do something that is tried and true, and do it BETTER than everyone else has done it. You're going to waste your time and money with that Olds.

You have a good idea with the vortec heads. Around here they can be had for 300 bucks or cheaper. Find a 400 or build a 383 and you'll make good power.

Rok_Stars_Bars

Dinosaur engine? How long have they been making Chebby 350s? Just has long as Olds has made then 350. They all follow the same pattern on engine changes. Chebby had the 327 Olds had 330, Chebby had 350, Olds had the 350, Chebby had 454, Olds had 455, Chebby had the 400, Chebby 403. Chebby had 305, Olds had 307. They all follow suite. And part are easy to come by. But like I said overall on a rebuild the chevy is cheaper becuz of how common . But actually most are the same. I live 10 mins away from summit they have never not had a part I need at was no more nor no less then a chebby part.

Next....

Rok_Stars_Bars

Typical Chebby guy respond.. Maybe I should give you a warning for provoking this when it is apples to oranges. Ok so a 455 Olds doesn't weigh nor look like a SBC to a BBC. Where is the downfall to that. Isn't that the new thing making a 454 into a SB body. Well OLDS been doing it since the 70's. There are alot of parts available for the OLDS but there just not sold at Kmart.

http://fcrparts.com/Page_1.php

http://www.maliburacing.com/iceman/

http://www.buickgn.com/oldsmobilestartup%20page.htm

http://www.dickmillerracing.com/

http://www.mondellotwister.com/

And there alot more but thats all that in my favorite. Both and produce plenty of power. Again Apples to oranges it just what ever you prefer. Just don't bash what you don't know.

Apeiron

Any engine built with stock parts from the 60s is a dinosaur, regardless of who made it.

Rok_Stars_Bars

Again... Waste my time on a OLDS. Y waste your time on a 3rd gen Camaro or a Chebby becuz I will at least see 10 of them a day with the 305's or 4 bolt main 350 and still have the 7.5 10bolt doing one wheel burnouts. Go get a honda or something sound better then this stuff on there theory of a OLDS

And for my final statment... If your only for a engine for own 3rd gen camaro and money is a factor. Stick with a Chevy. Its a direct swap. Or the will be like me doing extending wire becuz the alt is on the other side the starter it on the other side you will have to weld in the motor mounts, Swap radiator, Buy a bellhousing convertion kit. and Im sure I forget something but them are the major items.
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ok.... I don't understand what make a Chebby so much better then a OLDS, Pontiac or Buick

Apeiron

Some of the links you posted seem to only be for body parts, but i'll try Summit for an example.

There are 4 listings for Oldsmobile cylinder heads, all of them from Edelbrock (hardly known for their state-of-the-art design), and all of them having the same chamber and intake runner sizes.

There are 463 listings for SBC cylinder heads in chambers from 32 to 76cc, and intake runners from 165 to 286cc.
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Aftermarket support.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Give me a break. My "response" was based on rationale. All you've spouted is brand-loyalty blinders-on blather.

jlc84cam350, you don't seem to be demonstrating any clue about what this project would involve. Have you researched what you'd have to do for engine mounts? Have you ever checked whether Oldsmobiles always had Muncie's behind them, or what it takes to put a Muncie in a 3rd gen?

Rather than jumping on every little good-sounding thing you've "heard", get the facts.

Rok_Stars_Bars

Well thats all I have in my Fav. I will but some more tonight. But I agree 100% that heads arn't has common has a Chebby heads. But I believe there are 3 total. But no where as cheap as chebby heads .
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Im open to all opinions. But no one on here give me any fact proving chevy is better then OLDS. Other then parts are cheaper! And on the tranny question again a Olds Forum is the place to find that out.

jlc84cam350

I am doing some research but i'm having a lot of trouble, this doesn't seem to be something that commonly done, i'm used to doing things with kits, not home made or self machine parts etc... For example i am doing a 350 swap in my toyota 4runner, this is being done with a everything you need to get the job done kit.

The only thing i knew when thinking about doing this was A. I need different motor mount. B. I might need a special transmision housing to bolt to the old engine. I thought i could reuse my radiator, Hook my starter and everything up and voilla, u got a old's powered camaro. I haven't been able to find engine mounts that work with my 3rd gen and an oldmobile engine.

I am not doing this to be different i'm just trying to get cheap hp, and appearently its gonna cost more than intended, i don't think i am gonna go along with this idea, just look at the debate in this forum lol, if it woulda been a good idea, i don't think i woulda gotten that many negative responses, this is the first thread i do that turns out this bad haha. Thanks anyways for letting me know what i was getting into, i have a budget of about 1800$ and its definetly gonna be blown putting an old engine in their.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

You don't seem to be open to anything. The original poster answers that question himself.

$'s/HP, it's a complete loser.

That right there is going to kill it. There are no kits available for this, which is really what the nays are all about.

Sorry this has turned so otherwise negative at your expense.

Rok_Stars_Bars

Well from the beginning I misread the thread. I thought the question was about a 69 Cutlass and putting a Olds 350 in it. Then about half way down I realize it about putting it in a Camaro. Which I have done succussfully. And By no means is it the cheaper way too go.

It just the thread has turned into a Chevy engine is better then a Olds engine. And the only thing I could get for an anwser is the only reason why it is better is becuz it is cheaper to build mostly becuz there are more heads on market that are bolt-on and go verus buying a set of heads from a junkyard for $70 and machining them to be just as good or better as aftermarket. But that just comes down to having knowledge and forums like theses to open your eyes to stuff that isn't sold at Summit.

Sorry for the neg feedback. But I put a olds in my camaro to be different and why not. And not really a budget mind. Plus it was my project car so alot of waste money went in it like putting a 307 instead of a 350 or the soon to be in it 403.

Also there are no motor mount kit you have to weld them in...

Plus when did my swap I had a $300 1984 Cutlass so part were fairly easy

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

your comments sound like you're still fighting it Rockstar.
We're not saying the Chevy is a superior engine, ie the iron is better, the block is superior in some way... 350 cubic inches is 350 cubic inches. But the parts to make it go fast (turn it from a 180HP wonder, into a 350HP terror) are easier to find and buy. More selection, cheaper prices,

Having 1969 cutlass heads that just need a $70 valve job is the same thing as having a '69 Camaro engine with Chevy camel hump heads that only need a $70 valve job. same thing! Good performance, but you're still using old parts that aren't as good as what you can buy new.

If I had a '69 Cutlass i'd keep my olds engine in it. I'd pay the bigger bucks, just to keep it "period correct", and brand correct.... But in my camaro? chevy engine! I don't think it would be worth my while to swap in an Olds engine.

jlc84cam350

haha thanks anyways five7kidi knew their weren't going to be anykits, but i didn't inted on this being this complicated of a swap, ive done v6-v8 swap in my camaro and that wasn't even remotely complicated to finding parts to this is! And just incase you guys are thinking i'm leaning more towards the chevy, dont be i'm leaning towards the cheapest way to make some good hp. If sticking a ford engine in was the best way..... nha forget it i i'd never do that! haha

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

About once a month or so a thread about putting a non-SBC into a 3rd gen comes up. About half the time, the originator is thinking this non-SBC they have available will be cheaper to install than finding a SBC - it never is.

89RsPower!

so true, the op stated he can get this engine for $400, if he looked around a little harder he'd realize he could find a decent SBC for that price. BUT you have to make an even comparison, a used running sbc, no you're probably not going to get a new 350 horse crate engine for $400 but this olds engine is also used if I'm reading it correctly. I personally know this is entirely possible, I bought a used running 350 from a wrecked car a few months back, it had less than 15k miles on it, it's a 4 bolt roller 350 with world products sr torquers on it, it even came with the tbi setup w/harness and computer that I was able to resell to recoup my $. I paided $250 for it and sold the tbi setup for $200. I now have a good running small block that should last quite a while that I paid $50 after all was said and done.

Apeiron

If I had a vintage engine from any manufacturer I'd sell it to someone doing a resto who was willing to pay top dollar, then use the proceeds to buy a garden variety truck motor.

Irockz

iTrader: (1)

I haven't read one thing that says Chevy engines are better than Oldsmobile engines.I'm quite a fan of the 455,myself.I've swapped a few of them in place of the early Olds based diesels in Chevy trucks.
BUT,a Chevy engine IS better in a Camaro,than any other variety,based mearly on the fact that it was meant to be there,in the first place.

Rok_Stars_Bars

I quit fighting.. And I said I agree keep it chevy. But since you bring back your 69 camaro with the 3/4 cam and Double hump heads. Here are some fun facts.. A Chebby 350 and a Olds 350 are totally different in bore to stroke. An actually a Olds 350 has almost the perfect bore to stroke ratio. And Mondello said the Olds 350 number 5 head are one best production heads made by Olds. And Olds carry more nickle and a Chevy. Being the reason why they never had to have a 4 bolt bottom end. Like the chevy needed to make up for there weaker bottom in. Hey the Chevy is cheaper to build. But hey that just fun Fact...

Question: why wont a machine shop align bore a 350 4 bolt main???
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OO I guess I misread that too...

Apeiron

Yes, for as little as bore to stroke ratio counts for.

Good heads, but still 40 year old production technology. If the motoring world hadn't given up on Oldsmobile it would have been interesting to see what someone could have come up with.

Few things are more overrated than nickel content.

Chevy introduced the 4 bolt mains to prevent cap walk in highly loaded truck engines, which is an application that Oldsmobile never encountered.

News to me, I had one done a couple years ago.

Rok_Stars_Bars

I was searching around and seen it. I was just wondering.

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

Nickel has a lower coefficient of thermal expansion than iron. I'm pretty sure the reason that some blocks received nickel was a thermal expansion issue.

They introduced a high nickel block for the 400, possibly because the 400's have less material between the cylinders, and Chevy felt that adding some nickel content to the block would decrease the probability of thermal expansion/deformation?

I don't know. What do you guys think?

Apeiron

Nickel is added to cast iron for wear resistance. Mostly it just makes it more difficult to machine.

bjankuski

This post has lots of misinformation:

I have a 468 CI olds powered drag car that runs 10's and I built it myself, so I know what I am talking about.

Just because Mondello says the #5 head is the best small block head that olds ever made, doesen't mean it flows any air. The olds combustion chambers valve, valve angle, and port design are all outdated. Olds have very shallow valve angles with poor short side radius, they do not flow well, and the center none divided exhaust port needs to be welded up to for performance operation. Even the best flowing Olds head "C" (used on big blocks) doesn't move as much air as a decient set of aftermarket small block chevy heads.

Olds never had a 4 bolt main because they never reved their engines very high. They have weak blocks, main journal diameters that are too large for high RPM, and heavy pistons. As stock olds should not be reved higher then 5500 RPM, it may come appart. When you build a olds for racing you have to add main bearing straps, or a main girdle, high volume high pressure oil pump (to get oil to those big main bearings), camshaft oil restrictors, restricted pushrods, and high volume oil pan. Then you need to run lightweight pistons and better rods. After all this is done you can rev a olds to 6500 RPM to but is alot of work.

The cylinder heads on Olds only use 4 bolts per cylinder unlike Chevy's 5 bolts per cylinder so if you run more then 11.5 to 1 compression or nitrous you need to O-ring the block to keep from blowing head gaskets. You should also increase the head bolt diameter from 7/16 to 1/2 bolts to keep from blowing head gaskets.

I do not know what machine shop you use but align boring a 4-bolt checy block is not an issue.

I general a Olds engine is a solid design when used for its intended purpose but racing was not its intended purpose. To build an Olds to make good power will require lots of work and lots of money.

Rok_Stars_Bars

I done arguing the POINT DUDE... I doesn't make a DAMN on a Chebby Forum...

And just cuz you have a 10 sec car that has a Bored over 455 olds engine doesn't prove nothing to me.