Engine SwapEverything about swapping an engine into your Third Gen.....be it V6, V8, LTX/LSX, crate engine, etc. Pictures, questions, answers, and work logs.
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just towed home my newest toy its a 83 firebird 2.8 car with 5 speed no motor or tranny did have a 383 and 5 speed in it b4 i got it, im looking to drop my caddy 500 in and have one mean machine i want a gmachine more then a drag car, my buddie has a eagle talon turbo 5 spd with all the lil rice stuff that goes with it and i want to show him what some good american muscle can do
vogey, welcome aboard thirdgen.org. And congrats on your new acquisition.
One thing you'll find here is members aren't shy about trying to save people from themselves.
I'd have to agree that a Caddy 500 or even a BBC is not a good start for a g-machine. Sell the 500 and use the proceeds on the project. Although a bit more of an investment and a bit more work, an LS1/T56 would be a great start for a g-machine. A 383/T56 would be a reasonable approach at less expense (maybe - depends on the 383 you buy/build) and easier to install.
A Talon turbo is certainly not to be taken lightly, though.
with alum intake the 500 only weighs 70 more pounds then a sbc, and dollar per hp is the cheapest 500-600hp engine you can build with the new alum hads out for the caddy i think a g machine is poosible, and as for cheper ive already got the caddy 500 as it sits its makin 310 hp and 500 lbs of torque, i sold my 454 this summer (not much of a chevy guy) but love the fire birds
Engine mounts and exhaust would have to be 100% fabricated - no aftermarket support. You'll need a bellhousing adapter or a BOP transmission (here begin the torque arm mount issues). The engine will stick up too high for the stock hood (same as BBC). 70 pounds is 70 pounds - an LS1 weighs 100 pounds less than a SBC.
One of the worst reasons to use something is because you already have it.
But, as already mentioned, search on Cadillac on this forum. It has been done (but not always done well). And, it's your car.
ok maybe g-machine was too far what i really mean is basically a fast car that handles good, not to worried about 1/4 mile times, its just gonna be a fun car, and no i dont take the talon lightly it skoots and handles like its on rails, ive been savin my 500 for a good muscle care build and this car is cheap and plentiful enough that it wont be so bad to change up, and i do have a few options on motor mounts, cad comp sells a universal mount kit that will drop the engine in just about anything, hood not a big deal has a 4'' L88 hood scoop on it, im not sure on exuast i want true duals but been told is difficult with the f-body, not sure on the tranny route i really want a stick but finding one that will hold 500+lbs of torque is not easy or easy onthe wallet, thinkin about goin with the 4l80e, not sure what to do about the torque arm if i do that, the 700r4 wont stay together for long t-5 would be toast fast... i just love the idea of sayin i got 500+ cid under the hood (514 with .060 over bore) plans include no back seat roll cage (not full one 6 or 8 point) tubular k member for clearance and weight loss same with a arms, sub frame connectors (witch one is best) and a 9'' when the 10 bolt gernades
When you look at some of the rat rods, they have anything and everything powering the vehicle and none are for performance.
Deciding to go with something different is fine but don't expect to get a lot of help from TGO figuring out if it will fit into a third gen. We'll offer suggestions but the final decision is up to you. As with any weird swap, you need to modify and fabricate to make it work. Anything will fit with enough time, money and ingenuity.
You're not going to find a 4L80E to bolt to the Caddy without some sort of adapter. 4L80E transmissions are only in the Chev bellhousing bolt pattern, not BOP.
for the money spent on a 4l80e and making it fit u could pretty much pick up a TKO600 or T56....well i guess that really depends on how much the 4l80e costs u but i know the comps arnt cheap and since the final price would be relatively close to each other and u said u like standards maybe the TKO or T56 would be the better choice...That said like a few others said, LS is the way to go...A good 6.0 build can easily hit the numbers that Caddy will put out...
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ive seen a few 4l80e's on craigs list for as little as $250, or a rebuilt one with 0 miles for $750 if i did end up goin with the 4l80e (not decided yet) i would use that megasquirt puter that u have to assemble yourself costs like 150 and can run efi and the tranny, but also you can set up paddle shifters kinda like that but would rather row my own lol, ive been contemplating the t56, but they are only good to 450 lbs of torque ive read and stock is almost 100lbs more torque then that, what can i pick up a tk0600 for? i probly will just get a th400 (have the one from the caddy but its the long shaft one and dont want to use it) and run that till i find a sutable stick
ive seen a few 4l80e's on craigs list for as little as $250, or a rebuilt one with 0 miles for $750 if i did end up goin with the 4l80e (not decided yet) i would use that megasquirt puter that u have to assemble yourself costs like 150 and can run efi and the tranny, but also you can set up paddle shifters kinda like that but would rather row my own lol, ive been contemplating the t56, but they are only good to 450 lbs of torque ive read and stock is almost 100lbs more torque then that, what can i pick up a tk0600 for? i probly will just get a th400 (have the one from the caddy but its the long shaft one and dont want to use it) and run that till i find a sutable stick
Where are you planning on mounting the torque arm?
if the caddy is being built for torque, an auto would waste most of the torque you could make.
a stick would be much more useful because you could granny shift past 2nd and go into 3rd, punch it, light up the tires and be at 60 in no time.
in an auto, especially a 700r4, if you punch it, it will downshift to first.
a th400 or 350 can run with no throttle linkage interface and will shift into third at 17mph and stay there until 90% throttle.
another thing i would suggest if you are set on an auto is forcing it to lockup in third at all times.
it will save your trans from overheating constantly from
a 4l80E can be programmed to act however you want, but you need a laptop IIRC and a lot of patience.
Last edited by RED_DRAGON_85; 02-06-2009 at 02:00 PM.
i was planing on gettting a after market crossmember and mounting the the torque arm to that, and no im not set on the trans i want a stick but fear the auto is only in my budget
Yeah, but the performance upgrades aren't out there, like they are for SBC/BBC.
Only if you believe everything you read in car mags.
Just cause you don't see it in a summit catalog doesn't mean you can't get it.
If marching to the beat of the same drum is fine with you good luck.
You will find many deciated companies providing performance parts for any GM engine you got though it may cost more as its not mass produced. But that's the point. They have their own beat.
Id say go BBB 455 its 150lbs less then a SBC
Gobs of torque down low, high number flat torque curve your looking for.
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Running a Caddy or Buick is way cooler. CMD (cadillac motorsports development) makes aftermarket parts like flywheels for stick shift, aluminum intake, and the rest!!
Go for it!!
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I too like the idea of running the caddy, everybody and there brother has a 350 or 383, and ls1 swaps have also been done on everything.
I especially wouldn't let someone talk me out of a swap that they haven't done themself, or talk crap about an engine that they have never worked on or probably even seen in real life, because at that point the nay sayers are going on hearsay and assumptions.
Just make sure that you have got the patience to see a project through, because i know things can get frustrating, especially when you've done something three or four times and it still doesn't fit right.
Theres no question if it can be done, it already HAS been done.
Last edited by stroker_SS; 02-13-2009 at 03:28 PM.
FWIW, the caddie 472 and 500 are MUCH lighter than a BBC, typically ending up within 35 and 75# of an SBC, there are tons of parts available, and it shouldn't be that hard to make work. They make the torque of a 500ci monster but tend to get gas mileage more akin to a 350 SBC... really not a bad engine.
The couple of performance caddie suppliers make some shitty mount adapters and pans, but it's not hard to make something that works yourself, and BBC headers can be close enough, just cut them off at the flange and a little tweaking you can weld the tubes to a caddie flange.
If you just want to go fast it's probably not the easiest way, but you can go pretty fast for cheap if you have the right parts sitting around/know what you're doing.
