Engine SwapEverything about swapping an engine into your Third Gen.....be it V6, V8, LTX/LSX, crate engine, etc. Pictures, questions, answers, and work logs.
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T5's aren't very tolerant to shock. A demand based secondary carb, such as the Performer, q-jet, and Holley vacuum secondary increase shock input to the transmission because engine RPMs aren't directly controlled by the throttle.
The worst of these is the Holley vacuum secondary, because the secondaries don't close immediately when you close the throttle - in a "power" situation, you get to the shift point, let off the throttle and push in the clutch simultaneously, shift, and the RPMs flash up because the secondaries are still closing - let out the clutch, and you just shocked the transmission. Won't be a problem in "regular" driving, but get a little spirited, and look out.
The q-jet and Performer have the opposite problem. The secondaries do close immediately when the throttle is closed because the throttle shaft is a mechanical connection. But, after shifting, when you get back into the throttle, the secondary air valve has closed and takes a moment to reopen - now you've shocked the transmission in the opposite way.
A Performer is the lesser of those two because it has the same size (essentially) primaries and secondaries - you loose the benefits of the q-jet small primaries. Plus, the Performer air valve isn't adjustable (except on the Thunder series carbs, or if you want to mess with changing the mass of the counterweight on the air valve). The Performer design predates the q-jet, and Edelbrock didn't do enough to update it to make it a viable choice (IMO). Over the years, there have been as many threads on the Carburetor forum seeking help for Performer problems as there have been threads seeking help for q-jet problems - and there are more members with q-jets than there are with Performers.
A Holley double pumper is the "right" carb for a T5 application, regardless of the state of modification of the engine.
T5's aren't very tolerant to shock. A demand based secondary carb, such as the Performer, q-jet, and Holley vacuum secondary increase shock input to the transmission because engine RPMs aren't directly controlled by the throttle.
The worst of these is the Holley vacuum secondary, because the secondaries don't close immediately when you close the throttle - in a "power" situation, you get to the shift point, let off the throttle and push in the clutch simultaneously, shift, and the RPMs flash up because the secondaries are still closing - let out the clutch, and you just shocked the transmission. Won't be a problem in "regular" driving, but get a little spirited, and look out.
The q-jet and Performer have the opposite problem. The secondaries do close immediately when the throttle is closed because the throttle shaft is a mechanical connection. But, after shifting, when you get back into the throttle, the secondary air valve has closed and takes a moment to reopen - now you've shocked the transmission in the opposite way.
A Performer is the lesser of those two because it has the same size (essentially) primaries and secondaries - you loose the benefits of the q-jet small primaries. Plus, the Performer air valve isn't adjustable (except on the Thunder series carbs, or if you want to mess with changing the mass of the counterweight on the air valve). The Performer design predates the q-jet, and Edelbrock didn't do enough to update it to make it a viable choice (IMO). Over the years, there have been as many threads on the Carburetor forum seeking help for Performer problems as there have been threads seeking help for q-jet problems - and there are more members with q-jets than there are with Performers.
A Holley double pumper is the "right" carb for a T5 application, regardless of the state of modification of the engine.
hmm, well i have to bow to your superior knowledge! haha, you do make several good points though. all of my cars have been t5's, save the 91 firebird i just traded (so thats 4 t5 5 speed cars) and 3 of them i put motors in, the 360 in the 84, the 283 in the 87 and a 383 in my other 87. the 90 kept its 305. i never had one break and to my knowledge, none of them were rebuilt. the 360 and 383 powered cars i drove pretty hard at the lewistown track here in montana, and at the spokane raceway in washington, never had a problem.
the only problem ive ever had with edelbrocks was on the 283, i had an rpm manifold up top, and i didnt have enough room between the bowl vents, air cleaner, and the hood. after spitting fuel everywhere under the hood, i got a cowl scoop and never had that problem again.
neway, valid points! i guess i just got luck with all mine kinda.
any thoughts on demon carbs? i got rid of the 800 avs that just bought like a week ago and am getting a Speed Demon 850 VE series carb instead. ive heard they are good, but thats about it.
any input you have on them would be appreciated! thanks
so how long was your car undriveable after you started the swap?
2 weeks.
It still isn't drivable as I have no idea on what to do for a throttle cable/bracket?
As for the edelbrock? I'll let you guys know how it works out.
Everything else its ready to rip. Although I do have a little manifold leak on the passenger side because one of the bolt wont line up? Is it something to do with the 305 manifolds?
It still isn't drivable as I have no idea on what to do for a throttle cable/bracket?
As for the edelbrock? I'll let you guys know how it works out.
Everything else its ready to rip. Although I do have a little manifold leak on the passenger side because one of the bolt wont line up? Is it something to do with the 305 manifolds?
i think the eddy will work fine for ya. the manifold leak, i donno, how far off is it? never had a small block piece not line up as long as they were same generation engine style.
the throttle bracket, you should be able to use the same one as the 305 used. thats what ive always done. if not you can usually find some kinda of sbc throttle bracket online for between 5-35 bux, ranging from simple to rather nice.
i think the eddy will work fine for ya. the manifold leak, i donno, how far off is it? never had a small block piece not line up as long as they were same generation engine style.
the throttle bracket, you should be able to use the same one as the 305 used. thats what ive always done. if not you can usually find some kinda of sbc throttle bracket online for between 5-35 bux, ranging from simple to rather nice.
check on ebay, lots of kewl stuff on there.
The one bolt on the passenger manifold doesnt line up? beats me
Yes i know the bracket will bolt up but the cable is too short? do i need one off carbed 3rd gen?
The one bolt on the passenger manifold doesnt line up? beats me
Yes i know the bracket will bolt up but the cable is too short? do i need one off carbed 3rd gen?
hmm. well thats bout the only solution i can think of. i didnt figure the tbi cable would be a whole lot different than the carb one. take a couple pics for me. if nothing else, im pretty sure you can get a throttle cable kit from an auto parts store. if not there, then ya, find one off a carb'd third gen.
cursious, ive never had that problem and my one 87 was a tbi originally. it hooked right up.
neway hit me with some pics, ill try to see what im workin with here.
She scoots along pretty good. Made me grin a few times. Untill a ran outta gas haha classic. Oh and i figured out that throttle bracket obviously. Used one off a carbed 3rd gen.
Need to trim up some loose ends to get it running like a champ.
Well heres a list of all the loose ends i need to figure out
-Manifold leak
-Wipers dont work
-Reverse lights dont work
-Stock hood doesnt fit anymore
-And the biggest problem of all, when i press my push button start with key off, it turns over fine. But, when i turn the key so the accessories and ignition are on, it turns very slow and only fires once in a blue moon. Help? Sounds like to much power is being drawn but i dont know how to fix that.
Well as for the test drive I went for a 5 mile loop on back roads because of the no hood issue. I came to an intersection and goosed it in 2nd and the back end kicked out. Surprised me pretty good. It picks up pretty good for having only a little cam but then again I was coming from a 305.
Why not just get a set of hedman headers? They worked extremly well with my 2 1/2in exhaust, friends were amazed at how well it sounded with the dynomax. There's a short clip on youtube of me doin donuts in a field, just search west end fair donuts. Mine is the white camaro.
Why not just get a set of hedman headers? They worked extremly well with my 2 1/2in exhaust, friends were amazed at how well it sounded with the dynomax. There's a short clip on youtube of me doin donuts in a field, just search west end fair donuts. Mine is the white camaro.
150 new 100 or so for the matching ypipe. I got my headers used, cleaned them up and put 7k on them. Just cleaned them up again and welded the collectors for flange type mounting. They make a difference and by far better then manifolds. Look through the parts for sale and I'm sure you'll find a nice set for 100bucks.
No prob, I just don't see puttin manifolds back in when its better to put a decent set of headers in and get alittle hp outta it. 350s like to breath and with the manifolds choking the camaros every little thing helps.
I've got Vortecs, and my motor is pretty strong, but if i had to do it over again I'd somethign different. For the money you ahve to spend to make Vortecs usable they're not really worth it, IMO.
i have a set of hedman headers for a third gen, were used for about 3 hours, then i had to pull the motor again and when i put it back in i got hookers with their y pipe. i might be able to get some pics for ya if you want. we could work a deal out.
i have a set of hedman headers for a third gen, were used for about 3 hours, then i had to pull the motor again and when i put it back in i got hookers with their y pipe. i might be able to get some pics for ya if you want. we could work a deal out.
Ya man let me know asap.
As for my hood clearence issue, I think im going to get a dual plane intake thats meant for a square bore carb so i dont have to run that adapter which is like an inch. Then run smaller air cleaner.
Just get a dropped-base 14x3" air cleaner. It will fit with the stock intake and that spacer. It will breathe better than the air cleaner you have now too.
ok so the guy who has the headers (i traded him for a manifold a while ago) said hed take 150 for them. id have to figure out shipping on them, but ill just pass them on to you for that. they cost me 224 plus shipping, and like i said, only a couple hours run time. paint is flaked off like its sposed to, but they are in perfect shape other wise. i could repaint them for you if you want with whatever high heat ceramic spray you want.
so neway, 150 plus shipping would be the cost. you may want to shop around, try craigslist and ebay. they guy was kinda upsetting me cus he wouldnt lemme have em back for 100 bux, but what can ya do. ill check some places for ya real quick, but let me know if your interested.
also yea, i think the performer rpm has a square flange. you should have been able to buy a flat metal plate adapter that should work, napa has them over the shelf. they are gold colored with like a zinc coating or something. its really only about a couple MM thick. thatd give you some room. that and either a drop filter or a 2 inch element should get you the clearance you need.
ok so the guy who has the headers (i traded him for a manifold a while ago) said hed take 150 for them. id have to figure out shipping on them, but ill just pass them on to you for that. they cost me 224 plus shipping, and like i said, only a couple hours run time. paint is flaked off like its sposed to, but they are in perfect shape other wise. i could repaint them for you if you want with whatever high heat ceramic spray you want.
so neway, 150 plus shipping would be the cost. you may want to shop around, try craigslist and ebay. they guy was kinda upsetting me cus he wouldnt lemme have em back for 100 bux, but what can ya do. ill check some places for ya real quick, but let me know if your interested.
What kind of headers cost you 224 total?
No offense but a set of hedman headers or even flow techs headers are 150 brand new.
that ( as long as it is ) is an ebay ad for flowtech headers, the whole kit, for 119 and 11 bux shipping. so 130 to your door, better than i can do. id check craigslist too.
Glad you're out roddin' around! Hey guys- what would you think if he got an Edelbrock 90* banjo fitting w/ a drop base aircleaner? Would that help in the hood going back on? Keep your head up-great job!
Hey guys- what would you think if he got an Edelbrock 90* banjo fitting w/ a drop base aircleaner? Would that help in the hood going back on?
Yup, thats exactly what I suggested a few posts back
I forgot those Edelbrock carbs need the special fitting though.... used to working with Holleys and all of their fitment issues lol. Fuel lines is usually the least of the fit problems with a Holley in a 3rdgen.
What kind of headers cost you 224 total?
No offense but a set of hedman headers or even flow techs headers are 150 brand new.
this was of course about 5 years ago my freind. not too mention, i was much younger, and far less intelligent. i bought them through napa, and yes, the base cost for the headers was 175. unfortunately, the store kinda raped me on delivery charges, cus it was a "special order." needless to say i dont shop there nemore.
but neway, that is why i went ahead and looked up the other headers for him, cuz i knew he could find cheaper ones. the headers i could have gotten are essentially new. but i dont see a point in him paying that much for them. i thought that my friend would let them go for about half that, but he is being kinda stingy lately cuz hes broke.
i say, better some money than no money cus you asked too much... neway, no offense taken, and like i said, thats why i looked up the other headers for him
this was of course about 5 years ago my freind. not too mention, i was much younger, and far less intelligent. i bought them through napa, and yes, the base cost for the headers was 175. unfortunately, the store kinda raped me on delivery charges, cus it was a "special order." needless to say i dont shop there nemore.
but neway, that is why i went ahead and looked up the other headers for him, cuz i knew he could find cheaper ones. the headers i could have gotten are essentially new. but i dont see a point in him paying that much for them. i thought that my friend would let them go for about half that, but he is being kinda stingy lately cuz hes broke.
i say, better some money than no money cus you asked too much... neway, no offense taken, and like i said, thats why i looked up the other headers for him
I didn't wanna start a fight over headers, just thought mentioning that there's cheaper headers out there that are better then the manifolds. Kinda seemed like he's strapped for cash. But thanks for not taking it wrong. These times are hard and some can understand that whoever has a part is gonna try to get some cash.
I appriciate everyones help, and I can't thank you guys enough.
Yes, I am very strapped for cash. Thats why this project had been on stand still for little bit.
Its hard being 16 and having toys. You see everything I buy or put into my camaro I pay it in full. Just because I feel better that way with out a bunch of bills. How ever, paying off my truck, paying full coverage on both the car and truck, gas, and cell phone bills really add up. So as soon as I get some cash I'll start on her again. Meanwhile i'll post pictures now and again of little progress here and there.
Hopefully late July early August it'll be ready to go.
Oh and heres a picture of my truck just for the heck of it.
I am thinking of doing this swap too and i am also 16 and buying parts for this swap too would it be too hard also to keep the A/C. Also i would like to know exactly what wires you take off for i could do that to mine.
. Oh and i figured out that throttle bracket obviously. Used one off a carbed 3rd gen.
