Engine SwapEverything about swapping an engine into your Third Gen.....be it V6, V8, LTX/LSX, crate engine, etc. Pictures, questions, answers, and work logs.
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I'm in the middle of my swap to a carb'd 350 and I had a question.
The 350 motor that I have is from an '89 G20 van but it did not come with a starter. I did however also buy an IROC-Z that this motor came with. I'm not really interested in keeping the IROC-Z but will use this motor.
I started today by trying to get the "new" motor on the stand ready to start and run before I put it in the car. Now the problem I had today as I was finishin the rest of the build was that I grabbed my starter that came with the 86 IROC-Z and put some jumper cables to it to see if it even worked. Maybe I checked it wrong but all I got it to do was to kick the starter gear out but not to spin. That was when I decided to take the known working starter from my 91 and bolt it to the 89 350. That close in years and both being SBC I thought for sure that they'd be the same...WRONG. The starter from my 91 does not work on the 89 350, I'm guessing because it has a larger flywheel on it...am I right or wrong? I looked at some pictures for both starters, the one for the 86 IROC and the 89 G20 and it appears to be the same. Can I use this larger flywheel with older starter and just bolt my TH700R4 up to it without any problems...granting I can get this starter to work right. If I do use the 86 starter, which wires go where on the bendix? Is it still the same orientation?
I started to disassemble the motor and try to pull it from the car and got to the point of the power steering pump and alternator bracket. There is one bolt that I can't get to right above the power steering reservior, normally it wouldn't be a big deal but it's Torx and although I have one the right size it's not long enough to reach the bolt. Do you use a long shank torx on this?
And another question I had is...I have a set of Hedmann headers that I'm putting on the motor with this setup. Right now I have them both installed on the motor, will I be able to clear the A/C and install without removing anything? I'll remove my MSD distributor cap so as to not break it in the process of installing the motor. I do want to remove the engine/trans together and do the same on the install.
Hope I didn't confuse anyone since I'm dead tired. Thanks for the help!
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Don't know what to tell you on the starter - might have to buy one for the van motor.
Are you using a torx socket? should be able to just put an extension on the socket/rachet to get it.
Take the distributor out, as well as the headers - you'll never clear with them on. I also highly reccommend taking the fan & radiator out as well - with the engine and tranny hooked together, it's almost impossible to clear the front without breaking the fan and bashing the fins on the radiator.
Get Help! Can't do the engine/tranny in one piece without extra hands!
Don't know what to tell you on the starter - might have to buy one for the van motor.
After much deliberation and fitting both starters in place with my headers I will have to retain the use of my original starter. The larger of the two starters just doesn't clear the headers. I was already planning on keeping my original anyways since I tested the larger starter and it shot the gear out but wouldn't turn. Tested it again today to show someone else and it still did the same thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by camaronewbie
Are you using a torx socket? should be able to just put an extension on the socket/rachet to get it.
I took another look this morning and realized that my T45 would fit through the hole so I've made considerable progress today. I guess I was just too tired last night when I got that far. I got it out this morning and still went stumbling a little from another bolt hidden in that assembly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by camaronewbie
Take the distributor out, as well as the headers - you'll never clear with them on. I also highly reccommend taking the fan & radiator out as well - with the engine and tranny hooked together, it's almost impossible to clear the front without breaking the fan and bashing the fins on the radiator.
I pulled everything out that was in front of the engine, including the A/C condenser coil and had no problems with clearance. I did get the 305 pulled out before I left the shop today and in the process I realized that there is very little room on either side to drop it in with the headers on. However I also realized that there will be even less room trying to get either header on after it's already in the car. I'll be thinking about this even more tonight and tomorrow before I start on the cleaning and re-appropriating the parts between the engines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by camaronewbie
Get Help! Can't do the engine/tranny in one piece without extra hands!
Good Luck!
I did finally get some help today. Two family members stopped by and gave me a hand while I was pulling the engine out and needless to say it would have been next to near impossible to do without the extra hands.
I would have made more if I could have gotten the stupid pressure washer I borrowed to start. Got it from the father-in-law and he got it from a family friend and never started it. Of course I was the one who had to find out why it was given away, the fluid that was moving around in the tank that I thought was gasoline wasn't, it was water. Plug was fouled so I sand-blasted that clean and put it back in. Ended up pulling the tank and emptying it and refilling it with gas. Took the fuel bowl off the carb and it had water in it too. Still can't get it to start though and not sure why other than maybe the fuel pickup tube is clogged. It starts fine with a shot of carb cleaner in it but dies immediately so I know there is something wrong with the carb. Any way that goes I have to get this one running or borrow another one so that I can get these parts clean before I put them in. I won't slap this thing together all dirty like it is. I need to get the "new" transmission cleaned before I start putting the shift kit into it. Also want to clean the motor some more if I can before putting it in, and I don't want to take nasty greasy stuff from the 305 to put on a clean'er' 350 to put back in. When I pulled the starter it took me nearly 20 minutes trying to get that thing clean, it was so nasty from grease and grime.
Besides I still need to pull the flywheel so that I can use my starter since the one that is on the 350 is too large. I still want to start this motor on the stand but can't until I get the flywheel changed. I really wanted this motor to be back together by tuesday but I don't think that's going to happen either since I'm not ready to put everything back in.
All I got to say is that I'm very glad that I took leave (vacation for the military) so that I had time to spend with the family and to finish this project. This is already taking much longer than I wanted it to.
Last edited by mos68x; 09-06-2009 at 11:44 PM.
Reason: Tired and forgot to add something
best way to get the headers on with the engine is you should be able to drop the driver side in no problem from up top, passenger side is alittle more tricky and you will most likely need to unbolt the passenger side engine mount bolt and go up from the bottom with the header as you jack that side of the motor up. I had the same problem with my Hooker headers on my 350.
__________________ 1988 Trans Am 64,500 miles,(The Project- swapped 357 (350 bored ."40 Carb'd/ Built TH700 R4 w/ Hooker Super Comp headers, EdelBrock 600 Carb, 99' Vortec 062 Heads, Edelbrock Cam, 2200 stall, EdelBrock Performer ESP Votec Intake, 3.73 gears, Custom Y pipe w/ 3" exhaust and 3" Cutouts, MSD Ready to Run E-Curve Distributor/Ignition, Edelbrock open element w/ 3" K&N air filter, Catlaytic Converter delete, Flowmaster 80 series, B&M shift kit w/ Corvette Servo.) Other cars: 1989 Formula WS6 305 TPI/T5/PBR(parts car) 1992 Carmaro RS 3.1/700R4.
best way to get the headers on with the engine is you should be able to drop the driver side in no problem from up top, passenger side is alittle more tricky and you will most likely need to unbolt the passenger side engine mount bolt and go up from the bottom with the header as you jack that side of the motor up. I had the same problem with my Hooker headers on my 350.
I will consider this. As of right now I'd rather deal with the drivers side than with the passenger side so I'll probably leave the passengers side on at least. I can always take the master cylinder out for a few minutes and then put it back since it can be layed over without too many problems.
I really wish I had the money for a load leveler but I'm broke now after getting the last few little things to finish this swap. It certainly would have made this entire process go so much easier.
Got the engine running on the stand tonight! Also got the B&M shift kit done on my transmission this morning! I found a broken spring and a couple missing checkballs in the trans, not sure if this was attributing to the lack of shifting into OD, but at least they are fixed now.
Going to try to get this engine and trans into the car tomorrow and drivable at least by saturday.
Can anyone tell me where I should set the timing for this 350? I'm at 8* right now, it only ran for 2 secs till we killed the power to the distributor. It is a 350 from an '89 G20 van and has the Edelbrock Performer intake with MSD Street Fire ignition and NGK V-Power plugs and Edelbrock 1406 carburetor.
I still need to tune the carb, but that should be pretty easy with the vac guage I got.
All I have to do to clean up the engine bay is pull the harness on the passenger side from the ECM right?
Has anyone ever tried to use their 305 starter with the Hedman Headers on the 350? My 305 starter will fit but doesn't seem to want to crank the motor very well and doesn't start. The 350 starter and flywheel do fine to crank the motor and starts and runs, but it won't clear the headers. I really don't want to have to dent my collector just to get the starter to fit.
Well the engine and trans are in the car now. Torque tube installed and driveshaft installed. Trans lines were a pain since we forgot to get them in while dropping the motor so we had to lift it again to get them right. Also just realized today that the TV, throttle, and cruise cables are all too short with the stock mounting so I'm scrambling for the Edelbrock bracket that I didn't care for too much. I didn't like it because they don't have enough room to clear even thier own runners on the intake manifold. Going to try to get it drivable by tomorrow afternoon/evening. I won't be able to make it to the exhaust shop in time so I'll have to see if I can do that during work on monday. Got the radiator and condensor in too so that the lines would sit right. I did get the engine in WITH the headers in...it was a job but we got them in.
Can anyone answer my question about timing? Were is timing supposed to be set for a 350 with what I have? And...where do I set the vacuum advance?
Alot of factors relate to timing - but most start with it set to about 6-8* BTDC. I started at about 6*, but ended up at about 10 or so. My situation was vacuum - didn't have enough for the brake booster, and for whatever reason, I found that if I bumped my timing up, and reduced my tune on the carb, I ended up with slightly more vacuum - just enough to make good brakes again.
Not sure what you mean on the Edelbrock bracket - it interferes with nothing on my setup. But I do remember drilling out an extra hole on it to get just a bit better alignment out of it.
Alot of factors relate to timing - but most start with it set to about 6-8* BTDC. I started at about 6*, but ended up at about 10 or so. My situation was vacuum - didn't have enough for the brake booster, and for whatever reason, I found that if I bumped my timing up, and reduced my tune on the carb, I ended up with slightly more vacuum - just enough to make good brakes again.
I'm going to tune my carb by vacuum and I want to see if changing the timing will change the vacuum too. It almost sounds like it will from what you are saying there. Can we adjust timing by vacuum as well or does timing not effect it at all? I really wishing that I hadn't sold my wideband O2 sensor now, sure could use it to tune this thing in closer to lean without going too far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by camaronewbie
Not sure what you mean on the Edelbrock bracket - it interferes with nothing on my setup. But I do remember drilling out an extra hole on it to get just a bit better alignment out of it.
On the part # 8031 the relief for the intake runner isn't wide enough for their own intake manifold so it won't sit down on the bolt holes. I was going to use the stock one so that everything mounts right but I didn't know that it would be an inch or so too short for the cables to reach the carb. I guess I'll just have to get that part and then make clearance with my die grinder.
Other cars: 1989 Formula WS6 305 TPI/T5/PBR(parts car) 1992 Carmaro RS 3.1/700R4. 
