Cummins Powered 92 Camaro Z28. What do you think? - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

92z28camarokid · 10-11-2009, 01:29 AM

Alright people here it is. I want your input on this.

A Dodge CUMMINS engine in my 92 Z28.

Things to consider:
Gas Mileage
Weight Difference
Fitment Issues
Suspension
Horespower
Torque
and how crazy would it be to blow mass amount of black smoke all over other cars

Now there are many variations of the Cummins:
12 valve
24 valve
4BT
6BT
...

Now here is how I am looking at it, I have a 92 Z28 that is a fast car with the stock TPI setup, I am currently switching it to carburated because carburated is what I know. But I am not Anywhere close to haven the fastest car in my area, I live in Lake of the Ozarks, MO where there are many rich people with many expensive, fast, and amazing cars. Now I am a highschool student and I do have a prtty good brain behind me, I am obviously crazy, but I do have many good friends with many automotive connections, so if I was to do this project it is not out of my reach.

I saw in one of the diesel mags in my collision repair class that had a mustang with a duramax diesel in it. He was runnin I believe mid 9s in the quarter and was getting 36MPG. Now days you are seein a lot more small cars with diesels for improved economy, ex; VW Jetta. So why not put it in a camaro?

Let me know what you think? How would you like to see a Cummin-Z?

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Imthebriman · 10-11-2009, 01:49 AM

I think it would be HAWT! Will it fit in there??? Massive amounts of torque! That'll leave some rubber.

tazextreme3 · 10-11-2009, 02:11 AM

4BT should fit. Might need a new hood though. Drop it in and crank up the fuel screw!

A Mercedes OM601 (I4) or OM605 (I5) might fit as well.

92z28camarokid · 10-11-2009, 06:45 PM

There is a guy down here that swaps Cummins into ford rangers for his profession, I may try to hook up with him and see what he can do with my car. It will def take some money!

92z28camarokid · 10-12-2009, 09:08 PM

Come on people have to have opinions on this! Anyone know somebody thats done it? Maybe in another some other kind of car?

five7kid · 10-12-2009, 10:28 PM

My opinion is I think the discussion is silly. If you did a

, you'd know if someone had done it.

A straight six is going to be longer than a V8, higher in the front than a V8, meaning higher hood than a V8. No mounts, no tranny available for it, fuel system would have to be fabricated, power brakes converted to hydroboost, control system would have to be grafted in. To say nothing of a diesel-friendly-sized exhaust system.

After you start in on the project, take lots of pictures. Let us know whether you end up having the car hauled off to the scrap heap, or if you decide to put something in that will both work and be practical.

A 6.5T or Duramax might actually work, being V8's and GM. You'd still have to get a tranny behind it, fuel system to it, hydroboost for power brakes, and figure out something for the control (most of the GM light truck diesels were throttle by wire) and exhaust.

If you're asking about a Cummins in some other kind of car, it's time for Mr.

.

Rich2279 · 10-12-2009, 11:40 PM

I'd be more interested in seeing a HEMI go under the hood of a 3rd gen.

Stephen 87 IROC · 10-12-2009, 11:53 PM

Any engine swap is possible into any car if you have enough time, money and fabrication skills but the biggest question about putting a cummins into a third gen is why? It's a low rpm truck engine. As mentioned above, there are better diesel choices if you have your mind set on dropping a diesel under the hood. If you're convinced that putting a diesel under the hood is the best option then asking people how to do it isn't the way to go about it. You tackle the job head first and hope you don't end up scrapping the car half way through the project.

CaliChevyLover · 10-13-2009, 12:00 AM

haha u could swap one of the famous gas to diesel conversion engines gm produced in the 80's.

Rich2279 · 10-13-2009, 12:05 AM

"Any engine swap is possible into any car if you have enough time, money and fabrication skills."

I agree w/ this statement. It is probably good if you a lot of patience, too.

jak2908 · 10-13-2009, 12:05 AM

i think this is a horrible idea...for what reason would you wanna do that...if anything stay within the family..as in a GM motor..not a MOPAR..come on!!! i think it'd be a disgrace to a camaro to power it other than anything else than GM powered...if you dont like your camaro powered by GM, go buy a omni or something..that'd make more sense to me...just my two cents!

92z28camarokid · 10-13-2009, 12:26 AM

My expierience with diesel trucks and pulling, Cummins has the most pulling power. You put an engine with insane amounts of pulling power in a car and your actually able to get traction and you are gunna have a very quick car, yes it would be heavier but the amount of hp/trq would make up for that easily. Oh and to answer your question about exhaust I was thinking side pipes, going down the road with that baby turned up blowin smoke is sure to make Al Gore happy. It would take a lot of fabrication, time, and money to make something like this work. I understand the whole stayin in the family thing and I am a huge enthusiast of CHEVY POWER, but if you wanna go with diesels I'd have to say Cummins is the way to go. This is a project I doubt I will ever do but I wanna know what yall think of a cummins in a camaro. Its def not practical and that's not the point in a project like this, the point would be to have something out of this world, an attention getter, something that will get a point across that you mean buisness, its also a great way to be creative and show off what skills you have. And not to mention it would be the ultimate ***** eater, its still american and you get to smoke them out both ETs and when they are next to you. If I was to ever do this project I will make sure to take as many pics of how I did it and the end result. Also maybe a pic of a dyno sheet from after I get this engine hopped up and when i put a stock cummins in it. I would like to see how that would turn out. Really this whole thing is something to think about, better MPG in this economy would be great, more HP/TRQ is what every power enthusiast wants, and something that stands out like no other is something that everyone that mods a car is looking for.

92z28camarokid · 10-13-2009, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich2279

I'd be more interested in seeing a HEMI go under the hood of a 3rd gen.

Now personally I'd have to say when it comes to gas power Chevy is the best!

ZZ3Astro · 10-13-2009, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 92z28camarokid

I have a 92 Z28 that is a fast car with the stock TPI setup, I am currently switching it to carburated because carburated is what I know.

I'm all for a turbo diesel thirdgen (it's on my long list of ttd someday) but I can't see you appreciating the complexity of it all... not when you're already pulling a tpi off in favor of a carb!

camaronewbie · 10-13-2009, 12:52 AM

If considering deisel, why not a race deisel? Aren't the F1 cars all deisel race engines now? Aren't alot of the GT race cars deisel? I seem to remember not to long ago seeing a mixed race (ie vettes, porche, ferrari, etc. in one of the long races where 2-3 different classes (ie formula, gt, etc.) all run on same track at same time but race in different classes - and I want to swear they were all deisel powered race motors. 9k rpm's and 0-60 in 3 seconds would be a deisel worth swapping!

Rich2279 · 10-13-2009, 12:54 AM

"Any engine swap is possible into any car if you have enough time, money and fabrication skills."

I agree w/ this statement. It is probably good if you a lot of patience, too.

InfernalVortex · 10-13-2009, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camaronewbie

If considering deisel, why not a race deisel? Aren't the F1 cars all deisel race engines now? Aren't alot of the GT race cars deisel? I seem to remember not to long ago seeing a mixed race (ie vettes, porche, ferrari, etc. in one of the long races where 2-3 different classes (ie formula, gt, etc.) all run on same track at same time but race in different classes - and I want to swear they were all deisel powered race motors. 9k rpm's and 0-60 in 3 seconds would be a deisel worth swapping!

Nothing like that. Audi has some diesel race cars (R10 and I think the R8) but the rules are slightly different for them because of it. The Corvettes, Porsches, and Ferraris are all gas burners. The power bands in those Audi diesels is 3000-5000. Diesel motors make torque but they generally cant go very high in the RPM's. (Torque x RPM) / C = Horsepower. Horsepower is what makes you go fast, not torque. You can put a tractor motor in a thirdgen and make 800 ft/lbs off idle but if it peaks at 1500 RPMs you're gonna have to have a 10-speed gearbox and row it up the track to keep it in the power band. It's just not the easiest way to do it.

There's a reason most serious racecars have never used diesel until this recent environmentalist push. Gasoline engines have their applications, and diesels have theirs. Diesels generally dont belong at a race track (unless towing a racecar). You can put some giant turbos in front of hte diesel until they make enough torque to make serious horsepower at low RPM's, but again, that's hardly the easiest way to do it. Diesels are inherently unsuited to making horsepower, and unsuited to go fast because of that.

mike_c · 10-13-2009, 01:46 AM

If you're that into diesels, just buy a diesel Ram, mod it and call it a day instead of swapping a Cummins into your Z28, It'll be way more cost effective in the end.

spongebob218 · 10-13-2009, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliChevyLover

haha u could swap one of the famous gas to diesel conversion engines gm produced in the 80's.

If the whole idea is to go slower, that would definitely do the trick. I had a Caddy with a 5.7 diesel and it was the slowest vehicle I've ever driven.

JR350tpi · 10-13-2009, 11:18 PM

I think that would be expensive because its all gonna have to be cutom work

phoenix_rising · 10-14-2009, 07:12 PM

Any updates on this? I was just considering this swap myself. I would love to build the first Bio-Diesel powered Trans Am! I was planning on an engine swap anyway but why not make everyone happy. I am looking at Duramax Diesels though. So the 6.5L is a distinct possibility? How about the 6.2L I have a few for sale around me.

five7kid · 10-14-2009, 08:12 PM

As already stated, you want to do this, you're pretty much on your own. Fabrication, modification, etc., be the trailblazer.

("He who thinketh he leadeth and hath no one following him is only taking a walk." Anonymous)

hardon85 · 10-16-2009, 07:16 PM

not trying to rain on your parade here but look how difficult an ls-1 swap is, and that's with everything available to buy. I'm sure you want to do something different but think about all the hurdles that have been pointed out you have to cross. Also have you ever done an engine swap of any kind before. Also you say you know carburetors and not fuel injection which is why you are switching do you know anything about diesels?

I think there are to many hurdles to cross and don't take this wrong but especially for a high school student. My opinion is concentrate on school go to college next year and when you are done and have a good job see if it is something that still interests you and if you have a good place to work on it and the funds to do it I would recommend between 10 and 15k for a project this complex and I'm sure it could be done for less but I wouldn't count on it. I know when I was in high school I wanted to do a lot of things that I couldn't afford and I'm glad I didn't because most of those things just don't interest me anymore.

As for your original question what do I think of the idea? Don't get upset by this but I think it is a stupid idea I mean I don't know what's worse a diesel or a dodge motor in a camaro that I think would be a total disgrace to a camaro. But it is your car, not mine if you like it and can do it go for it it doesn't matter what anyone but you thinks.

arrowcamaro · 10-16-2009, 08:48 PM

If this guy can stuff a duramax into an '81 olds cutlass and then make it look like a regal, you can stuff a Cummings in your camaro. Open up your wallet.

327sleeper88 · 10-22-2009, 06:28 AM

I think it would be very interesting, especially when you are driving around town. But i know that cummins diesels weight at least 1200 lbs. that a lot. You would probably need to get some sort of custom oil pan too. you would probably also need a really hefty rear end to handle the torque. cool project though if you have the money.

92z28camarokid · 10-23-2009, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 327sleeper88

I think it would be very interesting, especially when you are driving around town. But i know that cummins diesels weight at least 1200 lbs. that a lot. You would probably need to get some sort of custom oil pan too. you would probably also need a really hefty rear end to handle the torque. cool project though if you have the money.

Suspension wise you will def have to get some heavy duty springs up front to support the new found weight of cummins, if you are going to do this project you might as well put a four link in the car and put a massive rearend. There are ways to make the project cheaper as in buyin a "totaled truck" with the way it is today it is easy to get a totaled truck from a salvage yard, then u can part out what is still good that you wont use then scrap the what u cant get rid of. Yah it will cost a lot but if you can do it right it will end up paying off in the end with gas mileage and selling the parts u have. Just give it enough time...lol

Iroc-Z28Man · 10-23-2009, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camaronewbie

If considering deisel, why not a race deisel? Aren't the F1 cars all deisel race engines now? Aren't alot of the GT race cars deisel? I seem to remember not to long ago seeing a mixed race (ie vettes, porche, ferrari, etc. in one of the long races where 2-3 different classes (ie formula, gt, etc.) all run on same track at same time but race in different classes - and I want to swear they were all deisel powered race motors. 9k rpm's and 0-60 in 3 seconds would be a deisel worth swapping!

NO NO NO. I don't know of any Diesel F1 cars, that would be stupid in an F1 car. they run on race gas similar to what nascar uses. As for GT cars, some are diesel but they are in a diffrent class than gas gt cars.

ModPog84z28 · 10-23-2009, 09:25 PM

the major issues i havent seen discussed in this thread, are engine height (you do realize that the cummins engines have an extremely long stroke, and thus, the engine itself is almost 40 inches tall) and the fact that it weighs 1200+ pounds, sans turbo etc. plus its a very long engine, the bore spacing is 6.25". granted its a kewl idea, when i was younger i dreamed of a cummins powered 68 dodge charger. the gm diesel thought is far more reasonable, but if you want to attempt the cummins, build go for it. it will be alot of money, time and parts, not too mention it wont drive very well, if at all.

89RS_82Z · 10-23-2009, 09:48 PM

thats something i what always wanted to do, but i do agree the V8 diesel would be an easier one to get in, back it up with a 4l80......it would be hard, but it can be done, there is a few first gens with a diesel seen a 4th on u tube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6Uu4B1fgzU
if it can be done to a 4th it can be done to a 3rd

livewire · 10-23-2009, 11:21 PM

The Cummins 5.9 weighs in at roughly 1200 lbs. The handling and steering response of the car will go right down the crapper. Its also very tall and long. No way it will fit without some major firewall modifications, and thats just the beginning.

gregsz-28 · 10-26-2009, 03:34 AM

3.9L 4BT Cummins Diesel in a third gen:
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/fa...ng-f-body.html (framing a f-body)

19Chevrolet84 · 10-26-2009, 03:27 PM

Before you do this... Sell the Z/28 to someone who won't hack it up...smack yourself in the head... and then rethink this idea... All this extra torque and such won't even go to the back wheels, if the engine weighs 1200 lbs and the back of the car weighs nothing... You are just going to spin your tires.

ModPog84z28 · 10-26-2009, 06:53 PM

the 3.9 is interesting, but again he needs a big cowl (not the worst of problems), it weighs as much as an all-iron BBC, AND it only performs marginally better than the 2.8 that came out of it. granted having almost 400 ft/lbs is kewl, but without gears its not gonna move all that fast. thats why most diesels have 6 speed manuals and 5-7 speed autos. dont get me wrong, its kewl, but its alot of work to just have something "kewl" id want more performance for my money there. but to each his own.

and, yes that article is a diesel in a 3rd gen, but theres still no way you could put a 6bt, 12 or 24 valve in there without some serious problems and modifications to a body. if i did the diesel swap route, id go with a lil yota', nissan or straight GM diesel, and work the piss outa it. weve all heard of the mustang that had the gm 6.5t diesel that ran nines. id like to see the new ford sequential turbo diesel in something. although, say g'bye to weight savings, economy and your rear tires.

3rdgenmaro · 10-27-2009, 12:07 PM

Here you want to know the downright answer to your question?

It would be different and cool to see. Just like the twin turbo duramax chevelle.

However, there is a reason you never see this done. It is completely impractical. There is no good reason to do this swap. If you have a cummins laying around that you want it to put in something different, modify an 4x4 s10, use a fullsize frame, etc.

Anyone that says to go ahead and do it have no idea what it would take to get this done right. It would take thousands of hours and dollars to do a good swap. It is not cool if it looks like it was halfazzed into it. Doing something right is what makes those odd swaps work. Throwing it together looks exactly like that.

Dont do it. Period.

Ward · 10-27-2009, 12:55 PM

Reminds me of this guy's car. I'm sure it makes tons of power, but it just doesn't sound right :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO_kjaxIDzc

1BADRZ28 · 10-27-2009, 05:54 PM

I support the idea of this. A 10 second 3rd Gen getting 26 mpg. The thought has crossed my mind but not for a 3rd gen. It might be my next project for a street rod or Malibu wagon. I'd go Duramax to keep it GM.

lukes22 · 10-28-2009, 05:23 PM

I would love to see it!! I'm a huge CUMMINS guy. Cummins is by no means a mopar, last time i checked cummins made cummins... anyways i doubt you could get a 5.9 in there. The 4bt might be a different story. I would say if you have the money to do it, DO IT! It would be one of the sweetest things i'd ever seen. I wouldn't even consider a 6.2 or a 6.5 gm diesel. I've had my experiences with them and they are slow! A heavy modded 6.2 with a turbo could keep up with a 350, but the 6.2 wouldn't last long.