Alright people here it is. I want your input on this. A Dodge CUMMINS engine in my 92 Z28. Things to consider: Gas Mileage Weight Difference Fitment Issues Suspension Horespower Torque and how crazy would it be to blow mass amount of black smoke all over other cars Now there are many variations of the Cummins: 12 valve 24 valve 4BT 6BT ... Now here is how I am looking at it, I have a 92 Z28 that is a fast car with the stock TPI setup, I am currently switching it to carburated because carburated is what I know. But I am not Anywhere close to haven the fastest car in my area, I live in Lake of the Ozarks, MO where there are many rich people with many expensive, fast, and amazing cars. Now I am a highschool student and I do have a prtty good brain behind me, I am obviously crazy, but I do have many good friends with many automotive connections, so if I was to do this project it is not out of my reach. I saw in one of the diesel mags in my collision repair class that had a mustang with a duramax diesel in it. He was runnin I believe mid 9s in the quarter and was getting 36MPG. Now days you are seein a lot more small cars with diesels for improved economy, ex; VW Jetta. So why not put it in a camaro? Let me know what you think? How would you like to see a Cummin-Z?

I think it would be HAWT! Will it fit in there??? Massive amounts of torque! That'll leave some rubber.

4BT should fit. Might need a new hood though. Drop it in and crank up the fuel screw!

A Mercedes OM601 (I4) or OM605 (I5) might fit as well.

There is a guy down here that swaps Cummins into ford rangers for his profession, I may try to hook up with him and see what he can do with my car. It will def take some money!

Come on people have to have opinions on this! Anyone know somebody thats done it? Maybe in another some other kind of car?

My opinion is I think the discussion is silly. If you did a , you'd know if someone had done it.

A straight six is going to be longer than a V8, higher in the front than a V8, meaning higher hood than a V8. No mounts, no tranny available for it, fuel system would have to be fabricated, power brakes converted to hydroboost, control system would have to be grafted in. To say nothing of a diesel-friendly-sized exhaust system.

After you start in on the project, take lots of pictures. Let us know whether you end up having the car hauled off to the scrap heap, or if you decide to put something in that will both work and be practical.

A 6.5T or Duramax might actually work, being V8's and GM. You'd still have to get a tranny behind it, fuel system to it, hydroboost for power brakes, and figure out something for the control (most of the GM light truck diesels were throttle by wire) and exhaust.

If you're asking about a Cummins in some other kind of car, it's time for Mr. .

I'd be more interested in seeing a HEMI go under the hood of a 3rd gen.

Any engine swap is possible into any car if you have enough time, money and fabrication skills but the biggest question about putting a cummins into a third gen is why? It's a low rpm truck engine. As mentioned above, there are better diesel choices if you have your mind set on dropping a diesel under the hood. If you're convinced that putting a diesel under the hood is the best option then asking people how to do it isn't the way to go about it. You tackle the job head first and hope you don't end up scrapping the car half way through the project.

haha u could swap one of the famous gas to diesel conversion engines gm produced in the 80's.

"Any engine swap is possible into any car if you have enough time, money and fabrication skills."

I agree w/ this statement. It is probably good if you a lot of patience, too.

i think this is a horrible idea...for what reason would you wanna do that...if anything stay within the family..as in a GM motor..not a MOPAR..come on!!! i think it'd be a disgrace to a camaro to power it other than anything else than GM powered...if you dont like your camaro powered by GM, go buy a omni or something..that'd make more sense to me...just my two cents!

My expierience with diesel trucks and pulling, Cummins has the most pulling power. You put an engine with insane amounts of pulling power in a car and your actually able to get traction and you are gunna have a very quick car, yes it would be heavier but the amount of hp/trq would make up for that easily. Oh and to answer your question about exhaust I was thinking side pipes, going down the road with that baby turned up blowin smoke is sure to make Al Gore happy. It would take a lot of fabrication, time, and money to make something like this work. I understand the whole stayin in the family thing and I am a huge enthusiast of CHEVY POWER, but if you wanna go with diesels I'd have to say Cummins is the way to go. This is a project I doubt I will ever do but I wanna know what yall think of a cummins in a camaro. Its def not practical and that's not the point in a project like this, the point would be to have something out of this world, an attention getter, something that will get a point across that you mean buisness, its also a great way to be creative and show off what skills you have. And not to mention it would be the ultimate ***** eater, its still american and you get to smoke them out both ETs and when they are next to you. If I was to ever do this project I will make sure to take as many pics of how I did it and the end result. Also maybe a pic of a dyno sheet from after I get this engine hopped up and when i put a stock cummins in it. I would like to see how that would turn out. Really this whole thing is something to think about, better MPG in this economy would be great, more HP/TRQ is what every power enthusiast wants, and something that stands out like no other is something that everyone that mods a car is looking for.

Now personally I'd have to say when it comes to gas power Chevy is the best!

I'm all for a turbo diesel thirdgen (it's on my long list of ttd someday) but I can't see you appreciating the complexity of it all... not when you're already pulling a tpi off in favor of a carb!

If considering deisel, why not a race deisel? Aren't the F1 cars all deisel race engines now? Aren't alot of the GT race cars deisel? I seem to remember not to long ago seeing a mixed race (ie vettes, porche, ferrari, etc. in one of the long races where 2-3 different classes (ie formula, gt, etc.) all run on same track at same time but race in different classes - and I want to swear they were all deisel powered race motors. 9k rpm's and 0-60 in 3 seconds would be a deisel worth swapping!

"Any engine swap is possible into any car if you have enough time, money and fabrication skills."

I agree w/ this statement. It is probably good if you a lot of patience, too.

Nothing like that. Audi has some diesel race cars (R10 and I think the R8) but the rules are slightly different for them because of it. The Corvettes, Porsches, and Ferraris are all gas burners. The power bands in those Audi diesels is 3000-5000. Diesel motors make torque but they generally cant go very high in the RPM's. (Torque x RPM) / C = Horsepower. Horsepower is what makes you go fast, not torque. You can put a tractor motor in a thirdgen and make 800 ft/lbs off idle but if it peaks at 1500 RPMs you're gonna have to have a 10-speed gearbox and row it up the track to keep it in the power band. It's just not the easiest way to do it.

There's a reason most serious racecars have never used diesel until this recent environmentalist push. Gasoline engines have their applications, and diesels have theirs. Diesels generally dont belong at a race track (unless towing a racecar). You can put some giant turbos in front of hte diesel until they make enough torque to make serious horsepower at low RPM's, but again, that's hardly the easiest way to do it. Diesels are inherently unsuited to making horsepower, and unsuited to go fast because of that.

If you're that into diesels, just buy a diesel Ram, mod it and call it a day instead of swapping a Cummins into your Z28, It'll be way more cost effective in the end.

If the whole idea is to go slower, that would definitely do the trick. I had a Caddy with a 5.7 diesel and it was the slowest vehicle I've ever driven.

I think that would be expensive because its all gonna have to be cutom work

Any updates on this? I was just considering this swap myself. I would love to build the first Bio-Diesel powered Trans Am! I was planning on an engine swap anyway but why not make everyone happy. I am looking at Duramax Diesels though. So the 6.5L is a distinct possibility? How about the 6.2L I have a few for sale around me.

As already stated, you want to do this, you're pretty much on your own. Fabrication, modification, etc., be the trailblazer.

("He who thinketh he leadeth and hath no one following him is only taking a walk." Anonymous)

not trying to rain on your parade here but look how difficult an ls-1 swap is, and that's with everything available to buy. I'm sure you want to do something different but think about all the hurdles that have been pointed out you have to cross. Also have you ever done an engine swap of any kind before. Also you say you know carburetors and not fuel injection which is why you are switching do you know anything about diesels?

I think there are to many hurdles to cross and don't take this wrong but especially for a high school student. My opinion is concentrate on school go to college next year and when you are done and have a good job see if it is something that still interests you and if you have a good place to work on it and the funds to do it I would recommend between 10 and 15k for a project this complex and I'm sure it could be done for less but I wouldn't count on it. I know when I was in high school I wanted to do a lot of things that I couldn't afford and I'm glad I didn't because most of those things just don't interest me anymore.

As for your original question what do I think of the idea? Don't get upset by this but I think it is a stupid idea I mean I don't know what's worse a diesel or a dodge motor in a camaro that I think would be a total disgrace to a camaro. But it is your car, not mine if you like it and can do it go for it it doesn't matter what anyone but you thinks.

If this guy can stuff a duramax into an '81 olds cutlass and then make it look like a regal, you can stuff a Cummings in your camaro. Open up your wallet.

I think it would be very interesting, especially when you are driving around town. But i know that cummins diesels weight at least 1200 lbs. that a lot. You would probably need to get some sort of custom oil pan too. you would probably also need a really hefty rear end to handle the torque. cool project though if you have the money.

Suspension wise you will def have to get some heavy duty springs up front to support the new found weight of cummins, if you are going to do this project you might as well put a four link in the car and put a massive rearend. There are ways to make the project cheaper as in buyin a "totaled truck" with the way it is today it is easy to get a totaled truck from a salvage yard, then u can part out what is still good that you wont use then scrap the what u cant get rid of. Yah it will cost a lot but if you can do it right it will end up paying off in the end with gas mileage and selling the parts u have. Just give it enough time...lol

NO NO NO. I don't know of any Diesel F1 cars, that would be stupid in an F1 car. they run on race gas similar to what nascar uses. As for GT cars, some are diesel but they are in a diffrent class than gas gt cars.

the major issues i havent seen discussed in this thread, are engine height (you do realize that the cummins engines have an extremely long stroke, and thus, the engine itself is almost 40 inches tall) and the fact that it weighs 1200+ pounds, sans turbo etc. plus its a very long engine, the bore spacing is 6.25". granted its a kewl idea, when i was younger i dreamed of a cummins powered 68 dodge charger. the gm diesel thought is far more reasonable, but if you want to attempt the cummins, build go for it. it will be alot of money, time and parts, not too mention it wont drive very well, if at all.

thats something i what always wanted to do, but i do agree the V8 diesel would be an easier one to get in, back it up with a 4l80......it would be hard, but it can be done, there is a few first gens with a diesel seen a 4th on u tube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6Uu4B1fgzU
if it can be done to a 4th it can be done to a 3rd

The Cummins 5.9 weighs in at roughly 1200 lbs. The handling and steering response of the car will go right down the crapper. Its also very tall and long. No way it will fit without some major firewall modifications, and thats just the beginning.

3.9L 4BT Cummins Diesel in a third gen:
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/fa...ng-f-body.html (framing a f-body)

Before you do this... Sell the Z/28 to someone who won't hack it up...smack yourself in the head... and then rethink this idea... All this extra torque and such won't even go to the back wheels, if the engine weighs 1200 lbs and the back of the car weighs nothing... You are just going to spin your tires.

the 3.9 is interesting, but again he needs a big cowl (not the worst of problems), it weighs as much as an all-iron BBC, AND it only performs marginally better than the 2.8 that came out of it. granted having almost 400 ft/lbs is kewl, but without gears its not gonna move all that fast. thats why most diesels have 6 speed manuals and 5-7 speed autos. dont get me wrong, its kewl, but its alot of work to just have something "kewl" id want more performance for my money there. but to each his own.

and, yes that article is a diesel in a 3rd gen, but theres still no way you could put a 6bt, 12 or 24 valve in there without some serious problems and modifications to a body. if i did the diesel swap route, id go with a lil yota', nissan or straight GM diesel, and work the piss outa it. weve all heard of the mustang that had the gm 6.5t diesel that ran nines. id like to see the new ford sequential turbo diesel in something. although, say g'bye to weight savings, economy and your rear tires.

Here you want to know the downright answer to your question?

It would be different and cool to see. Just like the twin turbo duramax chevelle.

However, there is a reason you never see this done. It is completely impractical. There is no good reason to do this swap. If you have a cummins laying around that you want it to put in something different, modify an 4x4 s10, use a fullsize frame, etc.

Anyone that says to go ahead and do it have no idea what it would take to get this done right. It would take thousands of hours and dollars to do a good swap. It is not cool if it looks like it was halfazzed into it. Doing something right is what makes those odd swaps work. Throwing it together looks exactly like that.

Dont do it. Period.

Reminds me of this guy's car. I'm sure it makes tons of power, but it just doesn't sound right :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO_kjaxIDzc

I support the idea of this. A 10 second 3rd Gen getting 26 mpg. The thought has crossed my mind but not for a 3rd gen. It might be my next project for a street rod or Malibu wagon. I'd go Duramax to keep it GM.

I would love to see it!! I'm a huge CUMMINS guy. Cummins is by no means a mopar, last time i checked cummins made cummins... anyways i doubt you could get a 5.9 in there. The 4bt might be a different story. I would say if you have the money to do it, DO IT! It would be one of the sweetest things i'd ever seen. I wouldn't even consider a 6.2 or a 6.5 gm diesel. I've had my experiences with them and they are slow! A heavy modded 6.2 with a turbo could keep up with a 350, but the 6.2 wouldn't last long.

I realize this is a bit old, the idea is there and has been done, now in a thirdgeni do agree a 4bt would be the way i'd go, alot less weight and can still make good power. I am die hard cummins, have a heavily tweaked 02 ram and am getting ready to graft a 06 common rail into my 55 chevy. Cummins swaps into anything are alot simpler and cheaper than dmax's and as far as i'm concerned the 6.5's why it would be a more "bolt in" friendly swap are junk. Fuel system wise is around 500 bucks, i run a stand alone airdog 150gph pump which comes with its own pickup and 1/2" line for return and plumb to the inj. pump.
The 6 is gonna be way to tall and long, while possible you get into the 24v's and your weight is closer to 1800 pounds. I have air ride technologies stumped right now as to what i can run on a monte carlo subframe to support the weight and make it handle decent, not looking for a corner carver just a comfortable street truck. As i said i'm putting one into my 55 with a ton of mods basically going for one wild twin turbo hot rod...I chose the cummins because i want a hot rod i can get in one day and decide to hit the power tour or drive to florida and back and not worry about reliability, but still make all sorts of power. My daily driver 02 ram makes 1157ftlbs and just over 400 horse, i take it everywhere and beat the hell out of it and with good maintenance the only thing i do is change the oil and replaced the map sensor. Has never given me a lick of problems. Check out cumminsforum.com lots of info on there and folks wont be so quick to shoot down the idea.

A Cummins in a shoebox makes a lot more sense than a Cummins in a 3rd gen.

(BTW, have you posted about this transplant on trifive.com?)

I would say "think about it" i am a cummins fan!! the motor alone is like 2k pounds the unibody will not like the stress of the mass amount of tq no sub frame connectors will handle a built 24valve. not enough room you would have to run the tallest cowl you can.

people swear to the 12 valve since it is all tq and easy to build but ive seen the best reliability and power from the 24 valve.
i put a 4bt in a suzuki samurai and it was awswome power for a 4x4 not a car. i would say away from the chevy duramax since i have seen many problems with them. ive seen piston shoot though the heads and actally seen the heads come off!

i would stick to a built v8 and turbo it. My friend owns a diesel performance shot "Dr Perfromance" and he put a built 24valve in a 69 camaro and its sweet and has a crap load of power but its just a waste of a nice car to me.

why dont you try some thing you can get a ton of power and speed out of??? 2jzgte toyota supra motor or a RB26DETT nissan skyline motor swap ive seen them in action and man there the way to go. inline6 high boost!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZqtJTlXON8

don't most diesels only rev up to like 3500rpm, how would that work with the tranny/rear end setup, correct me if im wrong, but dont transmissions need to have the engine spin at a decent rpm to get going?

Its a cool Idea though,
just a suggestion, but why not look not a turbo Volkswagen engine, you could build it up, ive seen people get like 220hp out of them pretty easily , its only a 2 liter and they put out like:
140 hp 240 lb·ft stock

Adapting the tranny/mounting it would suck, but i think it would be cool,, that engine wouldnt way cap I saw someone do that on a car at one point, I cant remeber any deatils though, i think it was some guy I used to work with

The rasons for a swap include more power,bigger displacement, more parts for application, and etc

putting a 2.0 in a heavy camaro would be cool
i build 4cly on a daily basis and tune cars and i got 450whp out of aa 1.6 d16z6 honda running 27psi of boost. it was fast in a 1800pound crx but that in my camaro it would suck!! you need tq to push 3500pounds

yeah but if you built up a tdi volkswagon, assuming you doubled the hp, and the torque doubled with it, it would have 240hp and 480lb·ft, that would get somthing going pretty good, and im sure you could build one beyond that

my colbalt ss has a eaton supercharged 2.0 and it has awsome power and will run a high 12 easy on spray the main deal is the power band in the 4 cly you have to beat the piss out of them jsut to get anywhere where as a v8 or cummings has power right off the line.
i would love to put a dsm motor into my camaro but its just seems like a Abortion to me and to pop the hood and see this huge engine bay with a small 2.0 in it would seem like a waste.

plus have you driven a 4cly with over 500hp??? they have drivibility issues and reliability issues all the time.
there is no replacement for deplacement but a big turbo or a lot of spray might help
any thing is fast it just all depends on who is tossing money at it.

Ive driven high hp 4 cylinders, my buddy has a 92 dodge spirit rt, he built it up (had to fab alot of parts) that thing hauled *** (i said hauled, because right now its in the process of getting rebuilt, he is having a hard time finding a head for it), and i wil, admit, it blows away anything ive ever owned by quite a bit, I would stick that engine in my camaro in a second, granted i dont have the knowledge to do that, but if I did I would, I do agree with the reliability issues, but it would be cool, my buddy has a impreza (although I think thats a 6 cyl) it eats blocks like no other, every 6-12 months he needs a new one/rebuild, but he does beat the crap out of his car

if you do this i will personally drive there to see it. i would love for it to work as much as anybody else..and given the money i would definately try it....but everything with cars is harder than you think it is going to be...personally...i'd go out and find like a $500 thirdgen and like a 4bt out of something and rip the engine out of the pile....not your tpi. take lots of pictures and write an in depth guide...that would be nice. good luck...and pm me if you ever do try it.

I stand corrected weight on the 24v's is only around 1100 pounds according to cummins rocky mtn. Yes they do rev real low, mine makes all its power really from 1600-2300 but at that rpm its insane in a 3/4 ton truck with 6" of lift and 37's. Chassis would definately need alot of work along with probably either a built 12 bolt or a 9", as for the tranny you can pick up the 47re's rather cheap and built em or buy one thats built....I'm not out though

I think its a pretty cool idea. Never seen or hear it done before. There is a mustang out there with a Powermax in it, so i'm sure it can be done. As for all this "keeping it GM" stuff, a cummins is just fine. Dodge does not make the cummins engine, cummins does and dodge buys them, so why can't GM? besides, cummins is the best diesel out there. stock engine with a chip and you got 1000hp and 1500 ft/lbs! can't beat that!

I think we've gotten plenty of input on this.

When someone actually starts such a project, post away.