I saw in a post that somebody had mentioned that Jim Butler sells a pontiac third gen swap kit. does anyone know any information about this kit and what is included (I couldn't find any info on it on their webpage) thanks

call and ask them.

thanks, i thought one of you would know before I would have to pick up a phone, anyone else hear of this kit?

I have, but at the time I didn't have a 3rd-gen firebird. Now I do, but the bonneville is doing good so I'll leave well enough alone. Just call them. they offer those new 4.25" stroke cranks for 3"main engines, which reminds me of my other 400 block still in MD.........

also try these:
www.pontiacpower.com
www.sdperformance.com
www.krepower.com
www.nunzi-pontiac-expert.com

these are pontiac sites so some people might not understand

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$150.00 2.8 Auto.
short block now
turbo eventually, 3.4 may be in the future
Giving the enemy the opportunity to die for their country

Sounds like the GM "HO 350 Camaro Conversion Kit" - it isn't really limited to Camaro's though. Uses the ZZ4 crate engine, adds all the goodies like exhaust, electric pump & regulator, dual-snorkel air cleaner, carb, transmission & suspension upgrade pieces, etc. Runs about $4400 US plus shipping.

You need to start out with an '83-87 CC carb automatic car. If you have a non-CC Canadian version, it wouldn't be quite what you need. If you are non-CC, then a simple ZZ4 crate would do fine. Just add exhaust, tune it, beef up tranny & suspension, you're ready to rumble.

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82 Berlinetta, orig V-6 car, now w/86 LG4/TH700R4, 2300 stall TC. Ported World 305 heads, Crane PowerMax 2050 cam. ZZ3/4 intake, oil pump, pan & baffle. Accel HEI SuperCoil & module. Hooker 2055 headers, 3" Catco cat & 3" catback w/dual-opposite Flowmaster 80. 2.93 limited slip. Spohn SFCs waiting to be installed. AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Daily year-round driver. Best ET, speed TBD...
57 Bel Air, my 1st car. '66 396, 9.7:1 forged TRWs, Weiand Action+, Holley 750VS w/4150 conversion, GK 270 cam, Magnum rockers, Jacobs Omnipack, 1-3/4" Hedders & 3" Warlocks, TH400 w/TCI Sat Night Special conv & Trans-Scat shift kit, MegaShifter, 3.08 8.2" 10-bolt w/Powertrax, AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Idles smooth @ 700 RPM in D. Best 15.02/95.06 @ 5800' Bandimere (corrected 13.93/102.4 @ sea level).

to clarify, I am talking about putting a 400 or 455 PONTIAC motor into a thirdgen - and until now i haven't heard of any motor swap kits for this kinda thing. I always thought that I would have to fabricate most of the stuff myself (like the mounts). does any know anything about this kit or any others.

I'm interested because I'm going to be getting a 455 and I am planning a swap, anyone know of any header companies that make a header for a thirdgen 455 equipped car? or am i going to have to go the custom route here to?

that www.pontiacpower.com is a nice site:
KING STREET 823 LBS FT @ 4800 RPM
"Want to smoke a 540 Chevy? Been there, done that"

-that's a little too insane for me, I'm looking for something streetable that is just over stock for the 455. something that won't rip my trans am apart.

something that wont rip my T/A apart, and you're STILL going with a 455? Here are some suggestions for headers: Ram Air Restortions in "Big D", D-Port headers $299/pr order: 1-800-421-8455, gen ques: 972-720-1593. Also try Doug's Headers (Doug Thorley). Looked in the Aug 2000 issue of HHP (again back issues are great ) they don't list any headers for a3rd-gen firebird w/a pontiac motor, but I did see a comp cams ad w/a Bruce Fulper firebird doing mid 10's in a 3rd -gen firebird. That is the pontiac power site, call them.
edit: If you do call, see if they also have headers to fit a 76 bonneville w/400

[This message has been edited by Project: 85 2.8 bird (edited December 04, 2001).]

they also have shorty headers or you can use the Ram air manifolds which flow a hair under headers and can fit in tight places.

is there any aftermarket companies making the ram air manifolds??

re-read my post just above, the Dallas company.

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$150.00 2.8 Auto.
short block now
turbo eventually, 3.4 may be in the future

76 Bonnie: 400/400 "And you thought a Caprice was big"
Giving the enemy the opportunity to die for their country

[This message has been edited by Project: 85 2.8 bird (edited December 05, 2001).]

ahh....it's good to see another local person on here.

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85 Berlinetta Iroc exterior NOW 454 powered, 4.10 gears, 275/60/15 Hoosier Quicktimes freshly installed th350 3200 stall, shift kit, reworked valvebody, Megashifter, Biondo linelock ..........YES, it's street driven!

check it out at http://www.bsronline.net

Thank you very much for all the info Project 85.

CrazyRob, I remember looking at your car on the webpage, i must say it is very nice. Have you taken it to Gimli for some runs?

Thanks.....i took it out the first weekend in May. With the old dead stock 700r4 and running quarter throttle through first gear, the best was 13.3 at 105-106. Looks like it might be for sale, i finally found a 72 Cutlass that I've been hunting for years.

You should register on the message board. Pretty much ALL the car guys in winnipeg post on there. Good way to get to know more people.

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85 Berlinetta Iroc exterior NOW 454 powered, 4.10 gears, 275/60/15 Hoosier Quicktimes freshly installed th350 3200 stall, shift kit, reworked valvebody, Megashifter, Biondo linelock ..........YES, it's street driven!

check it out at http://www.bsronline.net

Hey is that the magazine (month and title) that had a real nice picture of a 455 in a third generation? If so do you know where I can get one a (back order service)? Thanks James

I called Jim Buttler a few months back (1 or2) and they told me that they no longer make the kit available but sell individual parts that youd need (no package so I guess that they probally make a little more doing it this way) Good luck and I am sure glad to see I'm not the only one that has started in on a project like this. James

In the about 40 or so back issue of high perf pontiac I did not see the 3rd gen w/455 in it. I did read a GMhigh tech mag (title?) where someone did do this swap though. Try conntacting that mag & see what's up.

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$150.00 2.8 Auto.
short block now
turbo eventually, 3.4 may be in the future

76 Bonnie: 400/400 CIA/Ram Air w/ metal clothes dryer ducting
Power "boat"ing land style

Giving the enemy the opportunity to die for their country

Any update on this swap? Almost got T-boned in the bonnie the other day & instantly thought of the swap. wonder what a 400 will rpm with 3.42 at the rear?

Started rebuilding it. I got T-Boned in my winter van (91 Lumina for the great Ny winters). I'm getting paid for the van and am going to put the 2000 I get besides the money that I need for a new door into the swap so hopefully summer of 2003.

pontiac powered 3rd gen firebirds is what its all about

I want to let everyone know that there is no kit available for this (Pontiac motor-to-3rd gen firebird) swap. I know because I to called Jim Butler to find out and nothing, no info at all. So I did the next best thing. I had to make everything myself, and find out what will and will not work. I wanted so badly to put my .030 428 into my 85' firebird. And guess what........ I finished it. Its all done. Some people said it couldnt be done, but I proved them wrong, and there all amazed.

OK this is what I have done. First I bought the South Side lift bar kit that is somewhat like a lader-bar setup. It comes with frame ties, lift bars, rear cross member and driveshaft loop. Had a buddy weld up everything and also installed a 8.5 10 bolt from a 79' firebird. The kit also allows you to do away with your lower control arms and the pain in the a@@ torque arm. I am still using my exsisting coil spring and shock mounts. Had them taken off the old rear end and installed on the 8.5 , everything measured up. Then I found a set of sb chevy moroso engine mounts, cut them down to size, and redrilled them close to the bottom of the mounts and used them as frame mounts. The engine sets perfect with 74'-76' engine mounts. Once everything was situated with headers, (ooohhh yeah, the headers). The ONLY headers that I have found to fit are from the 70' firebird, 4 tubed 1 3/4, nothing bigger will work. Then use steel spacers to fill in the gap between the mounts. (sound more complicated than it really is).

I used a turbo 350 w/ 3500 stall behind the 428. Custom fabed the driveshaft by local company. Had to move the cross member forward to the front bolt holes and added a peice of steel to make it fit, cause its not long enough, then redrilled for mounting holes. (Presto)
Another thing is I had to relocate the alternator, cause it sticks up to high in the front and hit the hood. So I moved it to the lower right hand of the motor. You also have to get rid of the big fan and use a electric fan for clearance. Now with my combination I use a Torker II intake, a 2 inch spacer and a 750 Holley Dp, which sits to high for the stock flat hood. So I changed the hood to a 4 1/4 cowl hood.

Hope any of this information will help any of you in your quest for (Pure Indian Power), thats what its all about.
If you have any questions you can e-mail me.


Pontiac's Rule!

I want to let everyone know that there is no kit available for this (Pontiac motor-to-3rd gen firebird) swap. I know because I to called Jim Butler to find out and nothing, no info at all. So I did the next best thing. I had to make everything myself, and find out what will and will not work. I wanted so badly to put my .030 428 into my 85' firebird. And guess what........ I finished it. Its all done. Some people said it couldnt be done, but I proved them wrong, and there all amazed.

OK this is what I have done. First I bought the South Side lift bar kit that is somewhat like a lader-bar setup. It comes with frame ties, lift bars, rear cross member and driveshaft loop. Had a buddy weld up everything and also installed a 8.5 10 bolt from a 79' firebird. The kit also allows you to do away with your lower control arms and the pain in the a@@ torque arm. I am still using my exsisting coil spring and shock mounts. Had them taken off the old rear end and installed on the 8.5 , everything measured up. Then I found a set of sb chevy moroso engine mounts, cut them down to size, and redrilled them close to the bottom of the mounts and used them as frame mounts. The engine sets perfect with 74'-76' engine mounts. Once everything was situated with headers, (ooohhh yeah, the headers). The ONLY headers that I have found to fit are from the 70' firebird, 4 tubed 1 3/4, nothing bigger will work. Then use steel spacers to fill in the gap between the mounts. (sound more complicated than it really is).

I used a turbo 350 w/ 3500 stall behind the 428. Custom fabed the driveshaft by local company. Had to move the cross member forward to the front bolt holes and added a peice of steel to make it fit, cause its not long enough, then redrilled for mounting holes. (Presto)
Another thing is I had to relocate the alternator, cause it sticks up to high in the front and hit the hood. So I moved it to the lower right hand of the motor. You also have to get rid of the big fan and use a electric fan for clearance. Now with my combination I use a Torker II intake, a 2 inch spacer and a 750 Holley Dp, which sits to high for the stock flat hood. So I changed the hood to a 4 1/4 cowl hood.

Hope any of this information will help any of you in your quest for (Pure Indian Power), thats what its all about.
If you have any questions you can e-mail me.


Pontiac's Rule!

ditto that jabird!

Building a '78 412 Pontiac to go in my 87 Camaro. Heard the biggest problem is the headers...Indian Adventures is currently building a kit for this swap, mounts and headers. Last time I e-mailed them they were looking for a donor car to test fit. Looks like a tight fit and my Holley 800 with 2" adapter looks like it will be 6" over the hood. Should be a mean ride when finished. Still looking for a Ford 9" rear axle.
Bob

Hey Project: 85

I have the 3.42 gears that I am ripping out of the car. I heard that is the weakest part of the drive train. Currently looking at 430 + hp and was told that if you are going to race this set up the rear wont handle it. I also have the SouthSouthMachine kit and want to make sure of the rear axle because the lift bars get welded to it. By the way... we're neighbors Dayton is about 15 minutes from my house.
Bob

bob8748
I would change the rearend befor you weld them liftbars in. Before I did mine the only thing I thought of was all the torque a Pontiac motor makes when it is built right. I have a .030 428 w/ported 670 heads nice cam, torker II intake with a holley 750 DP. Dynoed at 600 hp w/ 556 ft. lbs of torque. That alot of torque for a little rear end, it wouldnt stand a chance. Best ET to date is 11.60 at 116 mph. No NOS. Although I am taking the motor back out to make it bigger and faster. I have a set of steel H-beam rods, JE 13-1 Pistons, bigger solid Crower cam, port matched Victor intake and a 1050 Dominator. Also plans for a Big Shot Nitrous setup. If you would like a pic of my car and engine compartment just email me. I am always glad to help others for this setup.

Pontiacs rule.

mabey Rock and roll might have a kit, www.pontiacpower.com i good comprmise to headers i see alot of people do in tight places is the ram air manifolds, i guess in dyno test they make just a hair under the power of headers and have a cool sound to them.

headers I used for my setup

Sorry guys, cant seem to get the picture to come up.

Just wondering what the engine would run at. The bonnie has a TH400. Not sure what the rear gears are, but the car cruises 70 @2400 rpm. highway gears.