bigal04

Got a question. I already have a pontiac 455 that I could use but would I be better buying a chevy 350 for ease of installation and cheaper parts. If I did buy a chevy motor it would be a vortec. Just wanting some opinions on which way I should go. 86 z28

duckmanquacker

For ease of installation you would need to stay with the factory design. for sheer enjoyment go for the 455 poncho.

howesbird

Agreed pontiacs have tons of torque and its cool to do something different.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Coolness wears off pretty quick. Especially when you get your head handed to you by a fellow 3rd gen with a stock LS1 swap.

Up to you. A BBC would be easier than a Pontiac 455 install. And, I'd say an LS1 swap would be easier than the Pontiac 455, because there are more swap parts available. A Vortec 350 would be the easiest of them all, but also the lowest performing.

howesbird

Idk.....I have a six car garage that I share with all my buddies. Mostly third gens, got a caddy swap, a pontiac swap, and a bbc swap. So far lol the bbc swap has taken the most money. Those headers for a bbc swap are retarded expensive. As for the ls1 swap lol......pontiac 400, 375hp.....ls1 350hp. Idk I got two running pontiac 400's for free and put my motor in for basically nickels and dimes. My buddy bought a ls1 for 800 dollars plus all the stuff to swap it into his car. So over a grand to have less hp and a wiring nightmare.......no thank you. Sorry five7 I'm a hardcore pontiac guy. Lol

zraffz

The 400 might make more power stock, but as soon as he does anything like exhaust it's fair again. Both great motors... to each his own.

face215

Hey howesbird! GO FOR IT!!!!!! F_#* the ls1, the 400 pontiac makes way more torque, just get a ram air 4 cam and a little professional porting and the ls1 dont stand a chance!!!!

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

Howesbird is not the original poster.

The same thing can be said the other way around. If he goes LS1, cams it and does some slight porting the poncho wont stand a chance.

BigAl04, in the end it is your decision. The 455 will be different, the motor is free, and it makes good power for what it is. However it will require more work to get it all to fit, parts are more expensive, etc.

Vortec 350 will be a very simple swap, some basic work to them really wakes them up, and parts are cheap and easy to get.

What are you wanting to do with the car? Daily drive it? Race it? Cruise around and enjoy it? What?

I know you didnt mention it, but since everyone else jumps to LS1 swap, I will mention it. LS swap is like any other swap. If you search around you can find good deals. LS motors are more efficient and produce more power then the traditional sbc.

torque_is_good

this is an old thread and Big Al hasn't posted since around halloween. Since the thread is 7 months old I'd like to hear from Big Al as to how the 455 Pontaic is running under the hood and any tips he could offer for those who try it.

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

dang it is aint it.

So he did decide to go with the 455?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Hmm, guess I got busy about that time and missed these replies (birthdays will do that).

Apples & oranges. Pontiac 400 375 HP is gross flywheel HP, rated with velocity stack on the carb, electric water pump, open headers, tuning you'd never see in a car in the dealer showroom, etc. LS1 350 HP is net flywheel HP, as-installed in the car with complete air intake system, full exhaust as installed in the car, engine running the accessories, full emissions systems installed and active, basically what you get out of the car from the showroom.

Apples-to-apples, Pontiac 400 375 HP, LS1 405 HP. Or, oranges-to-oranges, Pontaic 400 300 HP, LS1 350 HP.

And that doesn't even address issues such as weight, driveability, fuel economy, and that thing nobody wants to discuss, emissions.

Understand, I am not a Pontiac hater.

But, I am a realist, as you can see above. Don't feel sorry for me. I will express my pity for you, as you clearly are not using sound reasoning. Which means those to whom you give advice need to be properly warned.

Back to bigal, should you ever come back: Have you decided yet? I would recommend providing intended-use information if you still need more information in order to make a decision.

Air_Adam

Between the 350 Chevy and 455 Pontiac.... I'd say go with the middle ground, and put a 454 Chevy in there. I did, and have no regrets about it so far. My reasoning for suggesting you go BBC route is like this:

- Easier/cheaper to install than the Pontiac
- More readily available and cheaper parts than the Pontiac
- Overall more cost effective than the Pontiac
- Better aftermarket support than the Pontiac
- More power than the 350 Chevy
- More 'cool factor' than the 350 Chevy
- More power potential than either the 350 or 455
- Only slightly more complicated to install than the 350 Chevy

face215

455 makes more torque than the 454 and is smaller and lighter and will always make way more torque than an LS1.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

And your point would be...

face215

i think ive said enough!!!

Bigcubebird

you think your STOCK LS overated junk is gonna touch a 10.5:1 compression 500 lb ft torque 455 pontiac?? hehahah you are VERY FAR distance from genius my friend. im mean **** even a 1976 low compression 455 still has more torque than your ls crap. dude in missouri put one into his 95 formula with th350 and laid down 12 flat on the quarter. it is 1976 stock. go head put 4 grand into your aluminum ****. all a low comp. pontiac V8 needs is small chambered irom heads and the compression goes thru the roof. (7.6:1 to 11.1) those can be had for no more than $150 bucks depending on condition.

lol then your hatin on the 5.7 vortec, which also has more torque than your ls1 hehaha. at the end of the day horsepower doesnt win races, appearantly no one told you that. as for the coolness, yea if the pontiac v8 was in the 4 th gen birds, camaros and vettes would be "ponies" hehahah

Bigcubebird

And as for apples to oranges lets keep it 100.

455:
big cubes

unique aggresive sound for PONTIACS

Low end torque achieved for next to nothing

makes lighter chassis faster than intended sooner and cheaper than stock PITA junk.

NO MALFUNCTIONING ELECTRONIC/COMPUTER GARBAGE TO WORRY ABOUT

Original design that WORKED
(Spark plugs ABOVE exhaust manifolds, distibutor in safe location, mechanical fuel pump.)

Stock parts can be used in high performance application and LAST AWHILE.

PAYS TRIBUTE TO HOW IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN for 4th gen firebirds.


LS1:

overated, exaggerated power specs

sounds like **** with catless exhaust

retarded re-design of the previous hybrid ("newer efi system with gen 1 chevy 350 block = LT1)

no provision for mechanical fuel pump (if go carbed still need gravity fed electric pump)

takes at least 3 grand to tune and make the same power that an older engine (B.O.P. Cad 472,500) would achieve with a simple head swap.

is a CHEVY motor and DOES NOT belong in a PONTIAC.



if it wasnt for smog regulations by the old white guys we call the Government, every true pontiac enthusiast would be doing 400,455 swaps. dont forget that,corporate boys.

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

Keep living in the 70s

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Im sure all the LS guys are quaking in their boots over 200hp big blocks from the 70s.

firechicken1992

I know my Poncho 400 aint going to be an enourmous monster.....lol. i have to agree with five7kid, Poncho swaps really arent worth it in means of moneyvspower. EFI is the way to go, i plan to even convert my 400 to MPFI in the future xD

And every guy ive heard talk about how ECMs are garbage and are unreliable and junk...cant comprehend them and are scared of them. EFI is some of the best stuff that couldve happend to 4 stroke IC engines.

Bigcubebird

Im sure theyre not, especially with misinformation like that lol. D Port 72cc = 375HP/500 lb ft. and even that is a bit underrated. ive had two LT1 birds, one I swapped out for a '75 400. Difference was night and day. Rear pumpkin gave out cuz of the torque. Roasted tires at nearly everly red light too hehaha

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Roasted Tires ≠ Fast.

The ability to destroy a set of tires is insignificant next to the power of the LSx swap.

Restrorob

iTrader: (7)

I see this is a old thread, but I just want to say.....

Unless some of you guy's have owned a poncho powered vehicle, you don't want to scoff at them too much.

The 70 Formula I dropped a stock 72 455HO into back in the early 80's was in deed a fly'n torque monster, there wasn't one car I lined up with that I didn't take by links, and that included the rich daddy boy's cars that were built to the hilt.

Story time;


The most memorable was a rich daddy's boy with a 70 Cuda 4spd car, had a 440 with tunnel ram. He was parked a couple cars down and I heard him talk'n smack about his car for a hour, I walked over and plopped a ben down on his hood and said let's go !

I jumped him 3 off the line and took him by 4, boy was he pissed. He showed up 2 weeks later with a freak'n blower, walked over and plopped two bens on my hood, I asked are you sure ? YEP !

Jumped him 4 off the line and beat him by 4, that was the last time he showed up.

Moral of the story...... Don't under estimate a poncho, there may be one out there that can put a spank'n on you.....

RedLeader289

iTrader: (2)

Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed

torque_is_good

too funny that the thread has come back to life

sure, displacement is a good thing but big displacement with modern technology is best. Alas, modern technology has allowed smaller displacement with very acceptable performance

Heck, a Honda Minivan weighing over 4500 pounds and 213 fire breathing cubic inches will go 0-60 in about 7-1/2 seconds

a mid 70's and early 80's Camaro weighing 1,000 pounds less and having 140 more cubic inches rips it out in about 11 seconds 0-60

go figure...but it has gobs of torque

mmadden55

1972 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 Compare Car 0-60 mph 7.4 | Quarter mile 15.3
1972 Chevrolet Camaro Luxury GT Compare Car 0-60 mph 9.7 | Quarter mile 17.0
1972 Chevrolet Camaro GT Compare Car 0-60 mph 10.4 | Quarter mile 17.4
1974 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 Compare Car 0-60 mph 8.0 | Quarter mile 15.2
1975 Chevrolet Camaro RS Compare Car 0-60 mph 8.4 | Quarter mile 16.6
1975 Chevrolet Camaro (350ci) Compare Car 0-60 mph 10.9 | Quarter mile 17.2
1982 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 Compare Car 0-60 mph 9.7
1983 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 H.O. Compare Car 0-60 mph 6.6 | Quarter mile 14.8
1983 Chevrolet Camaro Compare Car 0-60 mph 9.4 | Quarter mile 17.3
1984 Chevrolet Camaro Berlinetta Compare Car 0-60 mph 9.2 | Quarter mile

Bigcubebird

Oh believve me my friend it does, i dont see any stock LS1 14 sec fbodies or Y bodies roasting their tires at stop lights. But i do see 8.5:1 compresson Pontiac V8s in heavier 70s Fbodies still punching enough direct power to light em up.

Bigcubebird

No, not all. TOO MANY PROBLEMS, in case you missed my last post. And no the 80s had no torque. MID 70s did. '75 '76 400s and 455 stock still made 400 plus in torque. One pulled out of a heavier 70s chassis and swapped into a 93 and newer chassis will be a 12 flat quarter mile car. Add those D-Ports as i said earlier and now your in the 10s. Its been done before. Denial changes nuthing .

RedLeader289

iTrader: (2)

Traction Control. If you can put it all on the street w/out spinning you are faster than if you sit there and spin your tires for 30 secs.

300 hp and plenty of grip will get you farther than 1,000 hp and no grip.

Showing off and possibly causing an accident at a stoplight is typically reserved for 16yr olds anyway.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Who cares about torque? Torque is for tractors.

Bigcubebird

True Pontiac enthusiasts, who keep smashin on the all-too-confident corporative pepsi can lovers. And sorry i dont see any 350 false measurements gettin those high 1/4 mile numbers with a simple head swap.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

You don't think a LS1 could light them up from a dead stop? Have you ever driven one? Even a stock LS1 will light up from a stop all day long. An LT1 will do it. An L98 will do it.

An LS1 is not a 14 second car behind anyone of average skill. The early C5s were solid 13 second cars as well.

If you want to argue, at least argue facts.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

You guys are too funny...

Listen, there is no such thing as a "torque motor", that is century ago thinking, and an old adage that is completely meaningless. Do you know what a "torque motor" really is? It is an engine that is RPM restricted through crappy heads and a poor factory valevtrain, simply put, it is an engine that cannot breath. Torque IS horsepower, horsepower is CALCULATED torque. Take a crate 454-BBC that makes gobs of torque and a ton of horsepower, restrict it's breathing up top, now suddenly you have a "torque motor", wooptie freaking doooooo....

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

... and going nowhere when finally hooking, while then getting spanked by a NA Honda. Quit living in the past Burt, times have changed, burnouts belong in the burnout box.

Bigcubebird

(YAWN) pepsi cans get mad when the iron past whoops todays ***

RedLeader289

iTrader: (2)

I think we have a certified troll on our hands.

firechicken1992

I agree, this is sad

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

It must hurt to know my Chevy Cruze turbo will pull your "big block", woops I meant, "torque motor" Pontiac lmao, and I initially emphazised "big block" because obviously Pontiac never made one. Trust me, there is a reason why Year One chose an LSX for their 70's Bandit rendition and not a ridiculous Pontiac engine...

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Not at all, let the bell bottom 70's have their final say....

Let's all play guess that movie, and why they chose that car...

Bigcubebird

BONE STOCK (410 LB FT torque) 76 455 in a 95 formula, lets see the ls garbage do 12 no upgrades, hehaha i own you bitches again

Bigcubebird

There is no pontiac big block. We dont have to add 300 more lbs to get an additional 50ci, ****in moron. What your car again? An import ***** burner pile of **** with cheby badges? Hehaha weak ***

hectre13

iTrader: (4)

pretty sure this is a stock ls1 car doing 12's

Bigcubebird

www.youtube.com/watch?v=le7doYUimeg

Ahhh pontiac engine in a pontiac car, a head swap will put him in the 10s, funny all the **** talkers are quiet now lmao lmao lame ****s

Bigcubebird

Lol lacking that big T word that cheby boys are afraid of lol - TORQUE! lackin 50+

hectre13

iTrader: (4)

yup.. troll.. a legit response to a comment you made, and all I get back is some random smack talking.. this post should most definitely be locked

Bigcubebird

real pontiacs showing wannabe fast guys whos boss,**** emall ! Hehaha
Luminum **** killa!

Bigcubebird

No you just dont have enough brains to realize that TORQUE is your true power than gets the car moving. That pile of **** has 50 lb ft LESS than the 455 powered 4th gen formula video i posted. The 455 did 12 flat with the camarhoe half a lifetime behind and the bird weighs 200 lbs more. When u cheby boys gonna get it? Horsepower is a false measurement and DOES NOT WIN YOU RACES OR MAKE YOU FAST!! PONTIAC FOREVER, CHEVY KILLER!!

nhgator

I like Pontiacs and all,but you have to be retarded to put one in a 3rd gen,the money you save on swap headaches will give you the cash make your stock 350 Chevy eat any stock Pontiac motor.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The point of this thread has long been lost. We really don't need any more "My dad can beat up your dad" here.