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Engine Swap Everything about swapping an engine into your Third Gen.....be it V6, V8, LTX/LSX, crate engine, etc. Pictures, questions, answers, and work logs.

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Old 06-30-2011, 08:30 AM   #1
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biggest engine you can put in these cars?

whats the biggest engine we can fit into our thirdgens? iv been eyeballing a 501 in a 78? caddy but its front wheel drive. iv also been eyeballing the ls1, ls3s, and the lt1s but i keep coming back to the 501 hehe . is it possible?
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Old 06-30-2011, 09:26 AM   #2
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Re: biggest engine you can put in these cars?

Anything is possible with enough time,money and effort.
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Old 06-30-2011, 09:29 AM   #3
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Re: biggest engine you can put in these cars?

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Anything is possible with enough time,money and effort.
yup, just a matter of how much you want to do.
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Old 06-30-2011, 09:53 AM   #4
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Re: biggest engine you can put in these cars?

Caddy engines are big cubic inches but are HEAVY! Not to mention their physical dimensions being bigger than a Big Block Chevy.

Caddy intakes SUCK. Seriously. The intake sits so low that the incoming charge goes down, back up to reach the head ports, then down into the heads. Swap it for an aftermarket intake & it'll flow MUCH better. But then you can run into hood clearance problems requiring a hood scoop of some sort.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...ild/index.html

http://www.cad500parts.com/
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Old 06-30-2011, 12:04 PM   #5
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Re: biggest engine you can put in these cars?

As mentioned above, with enough time, money and fabrication skills, any engine can be swapped in. What's an easy or a hard swap depends on how you look at it.

Any SBC is a basic swap. Using an aftermarket block, you can easily drop in a 434 SBC.

With a BBC, if you stick to a short deck block, your standard sizes are 396, 427 and 454. Upgrading to a 4.5" bore block gets you a 502 and 540. A BBC swap is still a basic swap but just takes a little more work to do.

I had a 540 in my car for some time now but snapped a rod bolt a few weeks ago and in the rebuild, I'm making it bigger. Since I use a Dart Big M block, it has far more potential than a factory casting. I'm increasing the bore and stroke and making a 582. That's just about the limits of a short deck BBC. 588 if I bore to the maximum. To go bigger than that, you need to go to a tall deck block but that also means a lot more work to install into a third gen although it's not impossible.

Going to a tall deck, common sizes are 572 and 632 and going to mega blocks, displacement can go even larger.

Using large displacement blocks such as Caddy, Pontiac, Olds etc just requires a lot more planning and fabrication skills. If you have to ask on how exactly to install some non chev engine then the swap probably isn't for you.

The Caddy engine has a huge amount of torque but it's not a high reving engine. The stock valve train doesn't survive above 5000 rpm. To build a high performance Caddy engine, you could build a similar BBC for less money.
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Old 06-30-2011, 12:18 PM   #6
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Re: biggest engine you can put in these cars?

+1 Exellent post Alky,good stuff to know.
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Old 06-30-2011, 02:52 PM   #7
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Re: biggest engine you can put in these cars?

I thought a 605 BBC was the practical upper limit. That would be a 4.625" bore, a 4.50" stroke, and a 6.385" rod in a 9.800" deck. To do a 638 would require the 10.2" deck to fit the 6.7" rod and the 4.75" stroke.
As I understand it, the 10.2" deck won't clear the wiper motor, or was it the brake booster? Or maybe the heater box?
The last of the 500 Cad engines was in '76.
The early '70s Eldorado was FWD, but used the same engine as the RWD cars.
You'd need a TH400, or better yet, a built 200-4R
Wanna go even bigger? Well, bigger externally. The Dodge V-10 from the Ram pickups is a large engine. It's just 488 cubic inches, but it has potential, support, overdrive automatics, and you'd be the only third gen to use it.

Last edited by ronnjonn; 06-30-2011 at 02:57 PM.
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Old 06-30-2011, 10:23 PM   #8
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Re: biggest engine you can put in these cars?

well me and my dad tossed that idea around aswell, hes got a 00 dodge 1500 with the 5.9 bigblock in it and we were looking to see if it would fit.
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Old 06-30-2011, 11:13 PM   #9
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Re: biggest engine you can put in these cars?

The 5.9 is not a big block. Neither externally, nor internally. It's 360 cubic inches. And those Magnum heads are guaranteed to be cracked.
Plus that center sump oil pan will require you to weld in new crossmembers, then totally remove the stock one. Then there's the trans. The A500 isn't bad, but is a bit weak. The A518 is what it should have, but the ratios truly suck.
Then the OD part of either will require tunnel butchery, then you have a new nightmare with the torque arm. Plus then there's the exhaust system. Probably custom headers.
If you want a hot 360 for cheap, then get a Vortec 350, and have it bored 0.060"
Just because you have x car and Y engine, isn't grounds for a swap.
Yes, the V-10 swap I listed earlier would also be complicated and costly, but at least it has a few things going for it.
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Old 07-01-2011, 02:27 AM   #10
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Re: biggest engine you can put in these cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnjonn View Post
I thought a 605 BBC was the practical upper limit. That would be a 4.625" bore, a 4.50" stroke, and a 6.385" rod in a 9.800" deck. To do a 638 would require the 10.2" deck to fit the 6.7" rod and the 4.75" stroke.
I don't know. Trying to stuff a 4.500" stroke into a short deck block requires a lot of clearancing and specialty components. I'm pushing mine to 4-3/8" stroke but I'm also going to a 6.535" rod. I still may need to do some clearance grinding before it's done.

The problem isn't then the piston is at the top of the cylinder but when it's at the bottom. A long stroke with a short rod means you need a real special piston that will clear the crankshaft counterweight when it's at the bottom of the cylinder. Going to a talldeck block allows you to use a longer rod without that problem.
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Old 07-01-2011, 04:04 PM   #11
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Re: biggest engine you can put in these cars?

I know the pros used to do it, though not a lot. But that was before the World and Dart blocks. It takes extra machining, and Mallory metal for balancing, but it has been done.
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Old 07-05-2011, 11:48 AM   #12
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Re: biggest engine you can put in these cars?

trying to swap in a dodge motor/trans is going to be much more of a headache and bill than a free motor's worth. yes, it would technically fit, but you've got a ton of fabbing (welding, cutting) and electrical (custom harness) work ahead of you. Sometimes joining the herd is worth it; stick to sbc, bbc, or a gen 3/4 swap. there are a lot of people around here that can help if you have an issue with one of those swaps; mopar into a gm- you're on your own
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Old 07-06-2011, 02:32 PM   #13
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Re: biggest engine you can put in these cars?

might as well put an 800 ci Fulton in it.
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Old 07-06-2011, 07:17 PM   #14
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To be honest, this type of thread is hard to take seriously.

500 Caddy - possible, the distributor location causes problems. Lots of torque, but as mentioned, not well supported by the aftermarket.

LT1 - easily stroked to 383 for decent power (more than you'll get out of the Caddy).

LS1 - more power than the Caddy, and a lot easier to install.

LS3 - a better LS1.

The fact that you're lumping in a 5.9 Dodge indicates you don't have a good handle on the work required for any of these swaps.
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Old 07-06-2011, 09:07 PM   #15
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Re: biggest engine you can put in these cars?

I hate to say it again, but you never see anyone asking these types of questions on a Mustang website.......Why are we so cursed? These are actually nice cars and shouldn't be whored out.
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Old 07-06-2011, 09:18 PM   #16
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Re: biggest engine you can put in these cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by five7kid View Post
To be honest, this type of thread is hard to take seriously.

500 Caddy - possible, the distributor location causes problems. Lots of torque, but as mentioned, not well supported by the aftermarket.

LT1 - easily stroked to 383 for decent power (more than you'll get out of the Caddy).

LS1 - more power than the Caddy, and a lot easier to install.

LS3 - a better LS1.

The fact that you're lumping in a 5.9 Dodge indicates you don't have a good handle on the work required for any of these swaps.
i wasnt thinking of a dodge engine, it was something another member brought up and i brought up the fact my step dad had mentioned it before

if i do any engine swap im going an ls1 or ls3 and i do know the work envoled. i just stuck a 350 lt1 out of a 94 camaro into one of these and retained the 94s computer, i know whats involved. my question here was what was the biggest that could fit. doesnt mean its practicl or im going to do it, its simply a wonder i had.
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Old 07-06-2011, 09:43 PM   #17
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Re: biggest engine you can put in these cars?

id go with an LSx series engine. or a bbc engine. I mean how fast do you wanna go? a bbc with good heads, cam, stall, etc will be able to get you donw there real deep depending on weight, trans, gears, suspension etc...I mean if you wanna change to a different brand big block, forget the caddy. Put in a BB mopar. a stock 440 block can be bored and stroked to a 520 you can get some trackdog heads, a nice cam, etc. a 727 is a real durable transmission. But I dunno. I wouldnt do that.

And the mustangs guys do swaps like this too. A lot of mustangs have LSx engines in thier cars now.
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Old 07-06-2011, 09:50 PM   #18
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Re: biggest engine you can put in these cars?

i luaghed at the 5.9 big block comment haha. like stated in about every above post, you can put whatever your heart desires in it, wether cost effective or not, people put diesels in these, huge displacement bbc, theres a guy running a bbf on here, a guy wanting to do an I4 swap, pontiac engines, lt's lsx's you name it theres someone fabrication and mechanically savvy enough to do it, which is what it all boils down too. and in a swap theres more than just the engine, theres many variables, if the engine and trans are substantially heavier then youll need some suspension mods done, driveshaft and rear end will give out depending onhow much power you pushing out, also fuel system needs to be reworked if the engine needs more go go juice than the stock system can handle
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Old 08-30-2011, 02:23 AM   #19
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Re: biggest engine you can put in these cars?

I have to disagree, that the Caddy 425, 472, 500, engines are too heavy, they are all the same size, and are only 60 lbs. heavier then Chevy BB's.
I just picked up my old '78 Coupe Deville, for it's 425 engine, to rebuild, porting intake and exhausts, for it's 4-bbl.
And install it in my '84 Camaro, it will be my 7.0 L. F-41, sleeper. A visit to the paint and upholstery shop in the future will complete my project.
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Old 08-30-2011, 05:00 AM   #20
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Re: biggest engine you can put in these cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by five7kid View Post
To be honest, this type of thread is hard to take seriously.

500 Caddy - possible, the distributor location causes problems. Lots of torque, but as mentioned, not well supported by the aftermarket.

LT1 - easily stroked to 383 for decent power (more than you'll get out of the Caddy).

LS1 - more power than the Caddy, and a lot easier to install.

LS3 - a better LS1.
LS3 a better ls1
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Old 08-30-2011, 05:02 AM   #21
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Re: biggest engine you can put in these cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderCover89TBI View Post
And the mustangs guys do swaps like this too. A lot of mustangs have LSx engines in thier cars now.
Only way to make a ford run is with a chevy powerplant
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Old 08-30-2011, 04:19 PM   #22
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Re: biggest engine you can put in these cars?

seen them with 706in bbc's...i have a 605inch for mine.....the dodge motor sounds more retarded than using a caddy motor...a bbc will run circles around either from mild to wild combo's....now the newer ls combo's impress me and i would like to build one some day.

but to each thier own and if you have the ability,anything can be made to work.
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Old 08-30-2011, 09:51 PM   #23
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Re: biggest engine you can put in these cars?

Quote:
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Only way to make a ford run is with a chevy powerplant
I can tell you this, Ford has incredible engines and i know for a fact, being a prior mustang owner, ive never heard of such BS in my life.Ive never heard of an LSx being put into a mustang. Id put money on any Ford engine than a chevy engine.
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Old 08-30-2011, 09:59 PM   #24
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Re: biggest engine you can put in these cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJKZ28 View Post
I can tell you this, Ford has incredible engines and i know for a fact, being a prior mustang owner, ive never heard of such BS in my life.Ive never heard of an LSx being put into a mustang. Id put money on any Ford engine than a chevy engine.
I'm not gonna say ford doesn't make good engines. They have, and do.

But on the LSx in a Mustang? Xpndbl3 one of the members here has built one for someone else.
http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=Mustang+LS1+swap
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Old 08-30-2011, 10:00 PM   #25
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Re: biggest engine you can put in these cars?

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

..........
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Old 08-30-2011, 10:03 PM   #26
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Re: biggest engine you can put in these cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJKZ28 View Post
.Ive never heard of an LSx being put into a mustang.
what rock do you live under?

I always liked this picture, and im pretty sure it is/was a lsx swap too
Click the image to open in full size.

and if you cant read the back window, "Built Ford Tough With Chevy Stuff"
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Old 08-30-2011, 10:17 PM   #27
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Re: biggest engine you can put in these cars?

You limpwristed, ponytailed chevy boys are just about the most worthless human beings on this earth. You People are the reason why i cant stand chevy. "Nothings better than Chevys!" Thats all i ever hear from you people, everylast one of you are cocky MFs and have no respect for any other Car manufacturer.
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Old 08-30-2011, 10:30 PM   #28
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Re: biggest engine you can put in these cars?

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You limpwristed, ponytailed chevy boys are just about the most worthless human beings on this earth. You People are the reason why i cant stand chevy. "Nothings better than Chevys!" Thats all i ever hear from you people, everylast one of you are cocky MFs and have no respect for any other Car manufacturer.

than why do u have a chevy!!!
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Old 08-30-2011, 10:33 PM   #29
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Re: biggest engine you can put in these cars?

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than why do u have a chevy!!!
i dont i just made this fake name cause i was sick and tired of seeing you guys bust on my friend
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Old 08-30-2011, 11:35 PM   #30
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Re: biggest engine you can put in these cars?

I guess we've had enough fun now.
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