jedrom

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys, I am looking at purchasing an 89 camaro that doesn't currently run because the current owners have come to a halt on their overhaul. Stock the car came with the 305, and they decided to swap it out with a 350 from a 92 camaro. Since then they have not been able to quite figure out the electrical and what has to be done in order for it to be run as a tpi. The rest of the car is in great shape and even the tranny has recently been rebuilt. My dad is quite car savvy so depending on how difficult it would be to get her running and the cost, it could be worth it for me. To maybe give you a better idea of what is going on, the owner said that the engine will turn over, and also start up and pop with a little shot of ether, but he can't get the injectors to pulsate. As far as I know he still has the same ECM that came with the camaro stock. Thanks for any advice, I'll try to get on later to try and answer any questions.

jedrom

iTrader: (1)

Anybody? And although I would personally rather keep it TPI, how hard would it be to throw a carb on there?

camaro1185

If he has the same ecm that came stock in 89, thats a MAF (165 ecm) the 92 camaro would have a MAP (730 ECM). Maybe that has something to do with it?

Its obviously fuel related, no need to throw a carb at it. Does the fuel pump prime? if no, look that the fuel pump relay, also make sure the wiring is hooked up back at the tank. If the fuel pump primes then look at the injector fuses. If those check out ok, get a fuel pressure gauge on it and see what the pressure is at the rail. also, check to see if the injector wiring is getting voltage. It shouldn't be that hard to figure out if the car starts with some help from the ether.

jedrom

iTrader: (1)

Ok thanks for the advice. But there's one thing I'm confused about, which ECM should it have? Because I was reading somewhere that in the 90-92 camaros the ecm was onboard where as in the 82-89 in was external. Is this accurate?

camaro1185

Not sure what you mean about onboard, but both are mounted under the dash.

jedrom

iTrader: (1)

According to what I read, the 90-92's ECM is actually a component of the engine. And another question, what makes you think it's obviously fuel related? The engine does turn over and get fuel, I believe it might be a problem that's not allowing the injectors to pulsate.

jedrom

iTrader: (1)

Anyone know if what i read about the different engine's ECMs is even accurate??

jedrom

iTrader: (1)

Bump for help...

camaro1185

I really dont think that is correct.

jedrom

iTrader: (1)

So, in the case that it's not wouldn't I need an ECM for a 92 with a 350 in order for everything to operate properly?

vetteoz

iTrader: (13)

Both setups have a standalone ECM mounted under the dash.
The engines don't know or care what ECM is running them so long as the right parts to suit the ECM being used are fitted.
In this case the '89 TPI ( 305 or 350 ) had a air flow meter on the intake ducting and the 92 didn't.
That effectively is the difference between the 86 -89 MAF and 90 - 92 MAF TPI's.
Obviously two different ECM used ; one for each setup ,MAF or MAP

For ease of install a SMART person would use all the existing '89 stuff already in the car;
ECM / wiring / etc and just install a 350 chip ( for 86 - 89 350 TPI ) in the 305 ECM ( same ECM used for 305 or 350 anyway )

Question for you now is ; what ECM and wiring is in the car at present with the new '92 engine?

91phoenix

iTrader: (5)

Also which TPI set up did they use? If the 92 then you should have the right size injectors but as Vetteoz said possibly the 89 wiring which isn't right for the 92 TPI.

jedrom

iTrader: (1)

Hmm..not sure I'll try to find out for you. Thanks a lot for the help guys, that makes more sense than anything else I've heard or read at this point.

jedrom

iTrader: (1)

Alright, I know it is the 92 TPI setup, and I'm still trying to find out about the wiring and ECM. So, the best setup knowing its a 92 engine would be to have the 92 TPI setup, 89 wiring, 89 ECM, and a 350 chip?

camaro1185

The 89 harness will work, but you need a 92 350 ecm, prom.

91phoenix

iTrader: (5)

So far it is as suspected the 92 SD TPI. The 89 had a MAF TPI setup. The 89 wiring (which I would think you may have) can be repinned for Speed Density (I believe there is a thread for this.). You would need the 90-92 (Any TPI) ECM with a chip for a 350. Or you would need to swap out the wiring to the correct 90-92 TPI wiring w/ ECM and chip.
If it is 89 wiring it should have a disconnected plug at the front of the engine for the MAF somewhere unless they put the MAF back in then it is likely hooked up.

camaro1185

Also remember the knock sensor is different from the maf to sd years.

jedrom

iTrader: (1)

Ok, so if the wiring has been switched to the wiring for a 92, then the ECM would also have to be for a 92?

jedrom

iTrader: (1)

Alright guys I just got off the phone with the owner and this is what I found out: it has a 92 ECM and a 92 wiring harness (he also kept saying that it was a stainless or taintless harness or something like that). He also said it has a 350 MAF TPI setup, and that he does also still have the original ECM from the 89 305. He said that he has had people tell him that it could have something to do with the security not being wired in, which he said he hasn't looked more into because it's a pain in the *** and he would have to rip the dash apart. The other thing he was told was that it could be from the fuel pump not functioning, but he said it definitely is. Another thing he said is that the 92 ECM he has in it got kind of burned up or something from bad grounding or wires crossing or something of that nature. Another thing he said was that if you were to get a throttle body and wiring harness off a truck or SUV it would run fine. If you guys could piece any of this together it would be fantastic.

jedrom

iTrader: (1)

Did this narrow anything down guys?

1991_RS

He probably said (or meant) Painless Harness. google it.
As for getting it to run on ether but not on the fuel system, my first car 1991 RS Camaro w/ TBI was doing the exact same thing. The PO yanked the throttle body (& then lost parts) and then said it was probably the fuel pump. After rebuilding the TBI and replacing the fuel pump, we still got nothing. I had spark (tested it) but no go without ether. I noticed that the injectors weren't spraying at all. I checked the pump relay and had hot power but nothing getting switched. Turned out that the VATS module was faulty (I tried the resistors but ended up with a VATS override module - google it if you need one). After installing that, it started the first try. (Of course, we had to re-run spark plug wires because he had 2 or 3 mixed up.)

I'd try to get the existing system working first. Harnesses aren't cheap. If you do decide to go with TBI and need one, I've got two good ones I'd sell you one cheap. you'd still need the intake and stuff with it, though.

Good luck with it!

91phoenix

iTrader: (5)

He is full of non information. Is the wiring a painless or factory? Does it have a MAF or not? Can you see one in front of the throttle body? We will have to try to determine everything. First look in the engine compartment and see if the wiring is from passenger side and covers the engine and connects to the wiring going into the plug on the drivers side firewall near the brake booster. It should be going into the left side of that main connction. I believe it is called C100 connector. If it all is in wrapped harness etc and looks original then I would look under the dash at the computer and wiring. If it goes out through a hole under the pass kick panel and look original then I would presume it is the 92 harness and probably ecm. If it is I would tend to agree that it might very well be VATS security. It can be programmed out of the chip or you can get a bypass module. DO NOT buy the cheap ones from ebay. I had two different ones that never worked properly.
Keep in mind the injectors get power all the time but not ground. The only way to know if they are working is if they are getting grounded and thereby spraying. They will not work on the 92 system without VATS unless bypassed or programmed out.
I do believe you now probably know what is wrong but I would check before just throwing money at it.
Not checking properly and listening to people on here is why I do not have my car running right yet but I am now getting parts for a 350 w/ 91 TPI swap. The chip in my TPI ECM has the VATS programmed out. I am just going to have the V8 I wanted sooner.

jedrom

iTrader: (1)

Alright well it is a painless and I'm almost positive it's MAF. SO right now I'm thinking it's the VATS. Thanks guys

jedrom

iTrader: (1)

Well guys, I am now an owner of a thirdgen, I just bought it and towed it to the house tonight.

jedrom

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys, so it turns out that the guy never even attempted to deal with the VATs because last night I found the wire from the harness for it just hanging loose with a couple others under the hood. So I would thing my first step would be to get it plugged into the VATs module and see if there's really even anything wrong with it. Problem is, I can't find the module and after scanning and searching the forum and google, I still can't find where the VATs is supposed to be located. So if anybody knows (as I'm sure many of you do), please let me know.

jedrom

iTrader: (1)

If you have em, pics would be awesome as well.

camaro89rs305

i just bought a 89 camaro rs 305 tbi i was planning on eventually doing this swap also sounds like a pain in the *** with all the wiring to go to a 350 tpi. I recently had a programmer chip the ecu for the 305 tbi that plugs right into ecu in which he removed the (vats) (Vehicle anti theft system) you will notive theres a chip inside your key thats what thats for so the car wont star and shut off fuel to injectors which sometimes they go bad and that happens is what i am told. So i had that removed and a couple other things like the smog bs and im putting exhaust and headers on it anyway to make a long story short. Your going to need a moates g1 adapter for the moates website for the TPI ECU for it to work to removed vats. I'm not sure if you can just keep the stock ecu and repin it for 350 and just go ahead a program it for a 350 tpi instead of 305tbi thats something im not sure about yet which i would like to know. ill talk to the guy i bought the chip from and ask him about it. because he did a damn good job on burning me a chip for my 89 camaro rs 305 tbi and it runs great. Just be careful with the chip it only goes in one way and theres a black plastic holder for the chip that needs to be connected to new chip you can get old chip out by bending each pin slightly and then press the bottom of chip for it to pop out and install new one. make sure you put the notch on the plastic piece with the notch on the chip on the same sides then install the plastic piece with chip with the letters on it facing towards drivers side when pushing in ecu when you pull it down and unscrew the 2 7mm bolts. Im not sure if the tpi ecu is different i never messed with tpi ecu and im new to camaro's but trying to learn as much as possible about them. i used to have 2 foxbodys. if you got any more questions message me at camaro89rs305@hotmail.com or on here