Gort

Hello all -- new member here. I'd like to ask for some advice on a restoration and possible engine swap on my 89 Formula. I've done a bit of searching, but I can't seem to find advice, which is what I'm really looking for. So if this has been asked before and I missed it, please don't kill the newbie.

First, a bit of info. I was really into 2nd Gen F-bodies. Had a 73 Formula 400 and a 78 6.6 T/A Gold Special edition. Sold both before joining the military (miss them to this day). After the military, I picked up a used 89 Formula with a 305 TBI, 5-speed, and WS-6 suspension. I drove that as my daily driver and put about 120K on it.

Then came the wife and the kids, and the Formula got relegated to a corner of the garage because a lot of other things were suddenly more important. Now the rear spoiler is dry-rotted, the tires have seen better days, and I haven't started it in 2 years because I've either got a clogged line or have blown a fuel pump (injectors getting a signal but no fuel to the TB).

Anyway, my oldest is now 17, and before he goes off to college next year, I'd like to restore this car as a father/son project, which is something we've talked about and are both looking forward to.

This has probably been asked before, so go easy on me please -- I've been out of the F-body world for close to 18 years and I'm slowly getting back into it.

1. Is it worth rebuilding the 305 TBI?

I hated it when I was driving it because it felt underpowered. If I swap it out, I would really prefer to go with a Pontiac block (I'm a purist like that).

I've seen some threads concerning swapping in a Pontiac V-8 which I read with interest. I'd be happy with a Pontiac 400 w/HEI, a q-jet, and the RA-4 heads. Is there an easier/cheaper solution? Are any of these Pontiac parts even able to be found anymore?

I'm not looking to build a monster, just something with a bit of get-up-and go.

For what it's worth, I'd be registering it as a classic and in my state, classic tags have no emission inspection requirements.

2. It's a 5-speed that probably won't handle whatever I put in front of it.

If I'm swapping out the motor, I'd really like to keep it as a manual transmission -- that's half the fun of driving it. I know, however, that the stocker 5-gear isn't going to stay together behind a more powerful motor for long.

Any suggestions as to a suitable replacement 5-speed that won't cost an arm and a leg? 5 gears would be nice, but I could live with an M-22 or a modern-day equivalent.

3. Will the stock rear handle whatever gets dropped in up front?

4. Or should I just restore it to stock and call it a day? Can anybody point me in a direction to find out how many others are out there like this and if it's worthwhile to keep stock?

I did read the thread about desirable vs. rare -- not concerned about the value of the vehicle in terms of cash, necessarily, but if there were only a handful made with this configuration, I'd hate to bung it up if there were any chance it'd be collectible someday, esp. since Pontiac is gone now (hopefully not forever, though).

Thanks in advance, and again -- don't kill the newbie, please.

1984DarkHorse

I don't have much advice as I do opinion. But since you seem to be budget wise... they stopped producing these cars with pontiac motors after the second generation and started putting chevy motors in them, though not your tast it would be much much easier as far as parts and cost go. A punched out 350 is capable of a lot of horsepower for less money, say... a 383 maybe? you can buy the bare blocks pretty cheap and build them yourself. As far as transmission goes, its really just a matter of what you like and what your willing to spend. I would also add that with more power comes the need for more stopping power, you can have all the speed in the world but if you cant stop... well lets just say the brake system on these cars wasnt the best.
You just have to deside what you really want the car to do and how far you are willing to go to take it to that level. A bigger and better engine calls for bigger and better suspension, brakes, trans, rear end, etc. You'll be putting a lot more power to the ground than what the car was originally made for with a 305. You'll also have to beef up your fuel delivery (hungrier engine).
Hope that if this didn't help it at least gave you some insight. These simple restorations can snowball out of control very quickly into something huge (way more than a "years" work with your son)

Gort

Thanks for the reply. I'm aware that the the last Pontiac V-8 block was the 301 in 1981 Firebird (and a lot of 6.6 T/As in 79, including the Anniv Edition, were actually Oldsmobirds w/403s -- my 78 was the last of the Pontiac 400s). Chevy motors are great motors, but I've always been a Pontiac guy. It's not a ding against Chevy really, it's just a love for Pontiac.

Having said that, I'm not averse to dropping in a Chevy block. They're numerous and parts are everywhere. It's more of a question of should I swap it out, and what am I going to get myself into with the transmission and rear.

The 2nd gens were also very under-braked, so I'm not surprised there. One of the things I'd considered was larger rotors. You can never have enough braking, IMO.

I'd also considered trying to dig up a 350 TPI motor from an 89 Formula/IROC, but my understanding is that the 5-gear behind my 305 won't take the horsepower (which is why the 350 TPI was only offered with an auto in 89). Am I misinformed on that? If the 5-speed will handle it, then the rear probably will, too, and that'd save a bunch of cash.

I would assume that there are computer differences between the 305 TBI and 350 TPI, but I would think it'd be a lot easier of a swap in terms of wiring harnesses than going completely retro with a Pontiac 400. I also have the factory service manual for it (bought it when I bought the car) so I've got all the info it contains.

The 350 TPIs turned a respectable amount of horsepower if memory serves. I would think that there are some modern-day tweaks that could be done to it to bump it a bit more -- say a new cam and heads, or even reprogramming (if it's possible on those computers). Thoughts?

Do you think that I could get 300-325 HP out of a 350 TPI if I threw some parts at it?That'd be enough -- as I said, I'm not looking to build a monster, just something that has a higher fun factor and can leave little piles of ground rubber at the stoplights, which the 305 could *almost* do. I'm not a Chevy guy, so I don't really know a ton about Chevy small blocks -- I can, however, tear down a Pontiac 400 or 455 in my sleep (or at least I used to be able to) and can turn a wrench well.

You're correct in assuming that I want to keep the budget as low as possible to achieve my goals -- I'd rather spend the money on his education than the car. I do, however, have need of some resto parts, too -- deck spoiler, nosepiece, and hood. I also wanted to add to it the ground effects package (didn't come with that) and the different nosepiece that went with the ground effects (at least I think there was a different nosepiece).

Also, I'm probably going to have to replace the fuel tank and pump -- I'm sure I can find some online places that deal in these parts, but do you have any suggestions for the best price?

The interior is in excellent condition, so no work there (just some cleanup). The rest of the stuff (like rear hatch struts, hood struts, etc) I can probably pick up just about anywhere.