Notes on Installation of Hooker Long Tube Headers (2210)
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also im kinda trying to keep it not too loud becuz its still my daily driver until i get a truck, so i think i might stay with the hooker just for now becuz its still quite but when i get on it its loud. just dont want to cops pullin me over and findin no cats on the car ouch $5000 fine
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Originally posted by IrocindatZ Sorry i didnt mean to be rude but how am i supose to know waht it sounds like if its just at an idel????
The 'sound' has almost nothing to do with this post. It's really about the installation of LTs. The sound is more dependent on your cam, your catback, and whether you have cats or not. The LTs just emphasize the exhaust pulses. So, if you are looking for a 'cool' WOT sound then you may want to look at other posts. Find a muffler that meets what you are looking for and then run it with no cats.
Tim
__________________ 2005 Subaru STi, Got RlCE?
My old 11 second 1990 IROC-Z (sold to TGO Member 92 Formula)
I just finished up my install of the headers myself...
for those who want to know, i converted a 91 TBI friebird, keeping the a/c to a 350 carburated monster...
I did indeed use the mufflex y-pipe. It came to me in a half a dozen or so pieces, and i was able to fit it and weld it to give the maximum ground clearence and chassis and frame clearence bewteen its self and the frame.
I will be the first to say with the hooker cat back (3", i dont have the cash for the muflex 4" cat back rtight now) that it sounds unbelievable.
As for ground clearence, i have stock suspension (springs ans struts soon to be replaced) and the lowest part int he system is the y-pipe. I'm not sure how you guys get away with lowering your cars with this system! my y-pipe is tucked up as high as it goes, and i have measured a max of about 3 1/2" of ground clearence at the lowest poitn in the system, which is NOT the headers, but rather a secton of y=-pipe.
Anyone with any questions, or someone who needs some pics, lemme know, i can help out immensly. I also did this install with the poly motor mounts...
So far everything has gone real smooth, only 50% done but there is still pleanty of time left in the weekend. I have finished the driver side in its entirety. The LT slipped right in from underneath without having to jack up the motor, I did remove the oil filter and pressure sending unit though, they did cause clearance probs for the initial slide in. After bolting everything up I have nothing touching anywhere, I have all kinds of clearance all around the LT. I am running straight plugs that are a bit tight but not touching, E-tec heads.
I will finish the passenger side later or tomorrow and report back, I am crossing fingers and hoping that it will go as silky smooth as the driver side.
By the way for anyone interested, I picked up my set of 2210 LTs with ceramic coating and Mufflex 3.5" back with custom 3" y-pipe gently used for 400$ cash. Its real nice when the performance *** smiles down on you or when rich folk decide to go twin turbo and sell their parts to the first poor fool with a few bucks in his pocket, aka me.
Last edited by OMINOUS_87; 08-30-2003 at 09:04 PM.
Well, the passenger side turned out to be a PITA. The LT was actually touching the k-member in 2 places and also touching the brake hard line. The brake line was easy, just a little bending and pushing on it took care of the issue. The k-member touched in exactly the same spot as it did for Traxion, on the a-arm mount, as well as right along the weld of the k-member. I easily cut the weld down and slightly dimpled the LT where the weld was touching, solved. I just put a new disk on the cutoff wheel and plan to go to town clearancing the a-arm mount.
But all and all everything else was ok. I removed the knock sensor and fan switch and the LT slid in pretty easy without the use of a jack. So far its been in and out 3 times to check for clearances, piece of cake.
Well, back to work, gonna get this thig done today.
i have a 91 RS 5.0, 700r4. all the suspension is factory except i have shorter tires on the front. im getting headers real soon and i was thinking about the hedman shorties but what i really want is longtubes. i just want to know if i will be able to fit them in there and what i will have to do to get them in the. i've been reading everybody elses post but it seems nobody has the exact setup as me( different head, different engine mounts, different trans, etc) i don't even know if any of that stuff matters but i just want to be sure before i order them.
No pics yet, but mine are in. Here is a rundown on how it went for me (forgive me for some of the redundancy per previous posts/results).
Everything went pretty well. I had to clearance the LCA mounting area of the K member on the driver side per Traxion's instructions, but not on the passenger side. My slip tube primary has lots of clearance. The passenger side did need a little grinding done where the factory welds the upper and lower halves of the K member together. The #4 (I think - I'll edit this as necessary when I get out to look at it again) primary gets close to it as it runs down to the collector. The factory weld was pretty sloppy and it stuck out and was hitting the primary tube. I ground it down until I had a good 1/8" clearance which meant it got pretty thin. I didn't grind all the way through the K member steel but pretty dang close . I doubt a little thin spot like that will affect its rigidity though.
I relocated the knock sensor to the driver side per Traxion's instructions.
I had to move the passenger hard brake line. I removed the bracket in that area to gain more freedom of movement for the line and bent it down and forward and have a solid 3" of clearance all around from the headers.
I already had a ministarter and it fits perfect.
Dipstick tube was not an issue. I put the stock one back in but haven't figured out a mounting setup for the upper part of it yet. Luckily my Canton pan pretty much clamps down on the tube when I tighten the bolts so it certainly won't be going anywhere anytime soon .
I have standard SBC angle plug heads (see sig) and the plug clearance is great - not a single issue at all.
I have the OEM tired rubber engine mounts .
They fit great with the T56 too. No clearance problems at all. I had O2 bungs welded onto both headers. I did the driver side one like Traxion did and close to the same type of setup on the passenger side. I had that one canted slightly at an angle towards the passenger side of the car to get even more clearance from the bellhousing of the T56 but it could be installed straight up without a problem. Ran me $20 at a local race shop plus the cost of the bungs. For now I just stuck my old 1-wire O2 in the passenger side and put a 13077 HO2 on the driver side for actually running the system. The long term plan is for a WBO2 for that side as well as moving sensors from bank to bank to verify the state of tune of both sides. Who knows... maybe even a system like an LT1 PCM that uses dual O2s will be in the picture later on.
The y-pipe has not been started yet. I plan on getting started on building a custom crossmember later this week that will make as much room as possible for the Y-pipe and then taking it to a local guy that has been well recommended for the Y-pipe construction.
I will try to get some pics before the week is over and for sure after the Y-pipe is done.
Hope that helps people some .
Oh yeah, and many many thanks to Traxion and the others that have made this a MUCH easier install than it would otherwise have been .
__________________ 1987 GTA / Miniram'd 383/ TH???? / 9" w/4.33s : Far from stock, far from done.... Link to the GTA
1999 Trans Am / LS1 / T56 : Patriot Heads and Cam, the usual bolt ons... Link to the Trans Am
I installed my LT's not too long ago. I pretty much did not modify ANYTHING, honestly. The only catch for my car was that I had to install them pretty much vertically from underneath the car, which was a major pain in the *** because I didnt' have enough jacks to get the car that high in the air. I already had a mini starter too, and I have angle plug Canfield alum. heads. Car sounds MUCh better. I also had a dual 3inch X pipe exhaust made at the same time, with under the axle mandrel bent piping and 3inch magnaflow mufflers at the rear of the car, ala late model corvette style Sounds ****ing sweet. Not that loud, just REALLY deep and rumbly.
Oh yeah, did I mention my car is lowered 2 inches?? Ground clearance is fine as long as I go over speed bumps sideways and don't fly through intersections with huge dips in them.
ChrisFormula355, do you have any pics or could you get some. I just bought some 2210s and want to do an x-pipe setup but can't find any real good pics besides 4th gens.
David 91RS/Z28 do you have any pics of the passenger side sub frame connector. Im worried there wont be enough clearance for an x-pipe setup.
Does anybody have any exprience with this starter?
Thanks
__________________
91 T/A - Under the knife
00 GTP - Faster then the T/A was
I have an h pipe, but plan on switching to an x eventually. You will need to get s extensions to clear the subframe before it goes into the x though. I tried running a pipe straight back and it just hit the subframe on the passenger side.
Originally posted by KagA152 ChrisFormula355, do you have any pics or could you get some. I just bought some 2210s and want to do an x-pipe setup but can't find any real good pics besides 4th gens.
David 91RS/Z28 do you have any pics of the passenger side sub frame connector. Im worried there wont be enough clearance for an x-pipe setup.
Does anybody have any exprience with this starter?
Thanks
I have some awesome in-the-air pics of it from when it was on the lift at the exhaust shop........only problem is that they are on my buddies digital camera. Will post them in the next couple days when I get over to his house.
Originally posted by KagA152 ChrisFormula355, do you have any pics or could you get some. I just bought some 2210s and want to do an x-pipe setup but can't find any real good pics besides 4th gens.
David 91RS/Z28 do you have any pics of the passenger side sub frame connector. Im worried there wont be enough clearance for an x-pipe setup.
Does anybody have any exprience with this starter?
Thanks
that starter looks damn near the same as the mini-starter I'm running. I got mine from the local speed shop, was an off-brand so I couldn't tell you the exact brand, but it was about $130. Works sooooooo much better than a stock starter. My stock t-5 starter couldn't even crank over my new 355 in my firebird. I had to upgrade just to start the new motor!
Originally posted by KagA152 ChrisFormula355, do you have any pics or could you get some. I just bought some 2210s and want to do an x-pipe setup but can't find any real good pics besides 4th gens.
David 91RS/Z28 do you have any pics of the passenger side sub frame connector. Im worried there wont be enough clearance for an x-pipe setup.
Does anybody have any exprience with this starter?
Thanks
I have the x-pipe setup you're talking about. It's the same one 11Sec91Z has, I think he has some pics. Check out 87_TA, I think his setup is similar. My mufflers dump right under the rear axel. I'm going to eventually move the mufflers back and run mandrel pipes up over the axel on both sides which will be a tight fit. I think a car looks much nicer a "full" exhaust.
If you're thinking about the summit mini-starter, it works great. The price is right too.
__________________ 2002 SOM ws6 M6, the 91 never was ressurected after the fire...
Old cars:
91 Z w/383 , all forged bottom end, miniram, TPIS ZZ-X cam, Ported AFR 210's, Pro-built trans, Vig 3200 stall, Hooker LT's, drag susp., 17x9 ROH Snypers, and quite a bit more. 375 rwhp 375 rwtq.
89 Iroc, SuperRam, 219 cam, AFR 190's, sold to the old man, now has 406, runs 11's.
As Traxion and others mentioned before, my Hooker LT hits in the exact spot as photographed by Traxion. (passenger side)
Well, my question is.. how much clearancing is TOO much clearancing - that you start to affect structural rigidity ???
I clearanced the exact spot that was photographed..but by clearancing, I first cut 1 inch rectangle, then 2 inches, now it is almost 4 inches of a rectangle that I have clearanced out of the LCA area (like the photo shows) It seriously won't fit otherwise... motor mounts have like only 8k miles on them... (It is just the standalone #8 cylinder pipe thing that hits)
I'm wonderng how that will affect strength and such??
Before you get to carried away on grinding the K-member down to nothing for clearance, dont forget how effective a hammer is.
I did quite a bit of grinding and then called it quits and lightly dimpled the #8.
Just mark the spot that doesnt clear with a felt pen and then slightly dimple it with a hammer, it is helpfull to put a thin rag on the #8 as to not ruin the ceramic coating.
Dont foget to get some Ultra Copper RTV around that #8 before you slip it in permanently.
OK, got a digital camera for Christmas (yeah! ) so I shot a few of my Y-pipe and how low my collectors ended being (very , but then again, so is the SFC X-member as you can see). You can see a little bit of my custom fabbed T56 crossmember too. Check em out:
It's 3" and it has the rear collector flanges for facilitating pulling the trans and not having to take the entire exhaust system off the car to do so.
__________________ 1987 GTA / Miniram'd 383/ TH???? / 9" w/4.33s : Far from stock, far from done.... Link to the GTA
1999 Trans Am / LS1 / T56 : Patriot Heads and Cam, the usual bolt ons... Link to the Trans Am
I have to say, mine hangs pretty low, but since the addition of new shocks, i never hit on anything anymore... altho, granted, my car is not lowered...
Yeah, that's the Pro Kit... I took a little off the front springs though so it is maybe 1/8" lower in the front than a stock Pro Kit.
I can't get a decent side shot of the car right now because it is in the garage but there are a quite a few different pics on my site of the car (see link in sig).
__________________ 1987 GTA / Miniram'd 383/ TH???? / 9" w/4.33s : Far from stock, far from done.... Link to the GTA
1999 Trans Am / LS1 / T56 : Patriot Heads and Cam, the usual bolt ons... Link to the Trans Am
WOULD THERE BE ANY CLEARANCE PROBLEMS IF IM USING THE HOOKER SUPER COMP LONG TUBES ON MY 91 Z 350 W/TRICKFLOW HEADS AND....I HAVE PA TUBULAR A-ARMS AND TUBULAR K-MEMBER???
Originally posted by ChevyCamaro4lif REALLY NEED AN ANSWER TO THIS.....
WOULD THERE BE ANY CLEARANCE PROBLEMS IF IM USING THE HOOKER SUPER COMP LONG TUBES ON MY 91 Z 350 W/TRICKFLOW HEADS AND....I HAVE PA TUBULAR A-ARMS AND TUBULAR K-MEMBER???
well i have trickflow heads, and i ran into minimal clearence issues on the stock frame. i would guess you would have more room than anyone inthe world if you have all the tubular stuff, the mount points of all of it shouldnt be any different than stock...
when all bolted up to the manifold, are the collectors at any angle downwards toward the pavement/ground? i would like to set up a true dual system and im buying mostly stright pipes and i was wondering if i was gonna need to bend any tubing upwards close to the frame to stay away from the ground or if i can just bolt them up to the collectors and they'll be set nicely under the car??
the collectors sit fairly level with the ground/chassis... you will likely need to do some, but not much creative bending to clear the trans crossmember... i'f your gonna stray to do your own customsetup, then your pretty much just gonna have to go play by play with it, ya know what i mean?
Originally posted by ChevyCamaro4lif ok thats good to hear.
now another question about these headers 2210...
when all bolted up to the manifold, are the collectors at any angle downwards toward the pavement/ground? i would like to set up a true dual system and im buying mostly stright pipes and i was wondering if i was gonna need to bend any tubing upwards close to the frame to stay away from the ground or if i can just bolt them up to the collectors and they'll be set nicely under the car??
You shouldnt need to bend anything if you get the hedman s extensions w/ the 2210's, and then run pipe back. The xtensions put the exhaust right in the edge of the tranny tunnel and give the clearance of the frame needed.
does anyone have a part # on these extensions or a website where i can check them out?
also i forgot to mention my plan is to exit before the rea wheels at the sides with 4" slash cut 18" long tips.(if that affects anything)im prob gonna go headers, h pipe, bullets, then out to the sides with 4" tips. thats what i would like to do or eveything but the h pipe.
Well, what I would suggest is to climb under the car and study where you want to route it. There are a couple possibilities. You could do like I mentioned and buy some 45 degree bends to aim it toward the side after the subframe, or you could turn right off of the collector and go outside of the subframe that way. The tough part if you turn right away would be doing an h pipe.
Like I said, I would get under the car and see what you think you would be able to do best or would rather do and then maybe we can help some more from there.
Heres a shot of how horrible my #7 spark plug interference is with Vortec heads. I'm running a shorty plug and have a huge dent in the header tube and the boot still touches it. I put like 5 layers of heat shield tape on it ...boot hasn't burned yet but I still check it every time I pop open the hood.
wow thats tight spot there, i got stock straight angled plugs and i made my own shorty plug out of an ACdelco plugs and i have great clearence around my number 7 tube.
where, i cant see it just put on my driver side, with the oil filter, pressure su, and slave cylinder outta the way, motor jacked up, it slipped in easier then my hedman shorty did. with my stock heads, accel header plug, accel wires, ive got about 1/4 of clearance. ill take a pic later
__________________
91 T/A - Under the knife
00 GTP - Faster then the T/A was
im doing the hooker long tubes on a friends car,i had to raise the motor 3 inches,i also ran into a problem but not with the kbar but with the lower control arm rear mount needing to be shaved down about 1/4-1/2 inch,and i cannot get this passenger side in with the car being raised almost a foot in the air. How did you exactly do the passenger side header, to get it in without jacking the motor? and again this side needs that mount shaved as well.
Take the starter out and point the header so the collector is facing straight down at the ground...Then slowly push it up right in front of the bellhousing ...you then should be able to to rotate it clockwise into place.
Originally posted by 88IROC350TPI Take the starter out and point the header so the collector is facing straight down at the ground...Then slowly push it up right in front of the bellhousing ...you then should be able to to rotate it clockwise into place.
just go straight up then, ive tried every angle,starters out of it, and it wont sit no clearance and this car is up there, ive almost got it to go in from the top, im just 2 inches from ebing clear oon the top, saturday im giving it another shot after i grind off those two mount tabs.
thanx for the pointer though im going to try and get the car higher.
5) I had to grind on the passenger side of the k-member where the LT was touching. Primary tube #8 was touching the K-Member here. This had to be clearanced for my application. Click HERE to see the problem.
6) The driver's side header demands that you jack the engine up in order to slip the header in from the bottom. You’ll have to remove the oil sending unit and the filter.
7) The passenger side header slips in with no jacking of the motor (starter removed).
8) To install the headers you want to point the collectors STRAIGHT down at the ground and rotate into place.
The key is to point the collector straight down. If you can't get the collector to point straight down then jack the car up more. I originally said the same thing that you are saying. Then I tried with the collector straight down and it rotated up into place. You can't get the header in from the top - give up on that idea.
Tim
__________________ 2005 Subaru STi, Got RlCE?
My old 11 second 1990 IROC-Z (sold to TGO Member 92 Formula)
Originally posted by TRAXION 5) I had to grind on the passenger side of the k-member where the LT was touching. Primary tube #8 was touching the K-Member here. This had to be clearanced for my application. Click HERE to see the problem.
6) The driver's side header demands that you jack the engine up in order to slip the header in from the bottom. You’ll have to remove the oil sending unit and the filter.
7) The passenger side header slips in with no jacking of the motor (starter removed).
8) To install the headers you want to point the collectors STRAIGHT down at the ground and rotate into place.
The key is to point the collector straight down. If you can't get the collector to point straight down then jack the car up more. I originally said the same thing that you are saying. Then I tried with the collector straight down and it rotated up into place. You can't get the header in from the top - give up on that idea.
Tim
ok cool, im used to doing headers on my own car and that takes me 10 minutes a side,not 2 days for one side.
K-MEMBER? what is that? im having clearance problems on the suspension mounts,im ready to have this kid order tubular upper and lower control arms so i can get this excess metal out of the way for good.
Originally posted by racindaelky78 K-MEMBER? what is that? im having clearance problems on the suspension mounts,im ready to have this kid order tubular upper and lower control arms so i can get this excess metal out of the way for good.
are you workin on an fbody? no upper a's bud...
the k member is the engine cradle, spring pockets, and the mount point for the lower a frames...
im used to my g body that this thing is unbelievably the biggest pain in the arse! what holds the lower control arm in isnt the problem on the passenger side, its the tranny bellhousing flange thats in the way and im not gonna cut that apart or have him do it.
ouch $5000 fine 
. I doubt a little thin spot like that will affect its rigidity though.
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