Notes on Installation of Hooker Long Tube Headers (2210)
ExhaustPost your questions and suggestions about stock or aftermarket exhaust setups. Third Gen exhaust sound files and videos!
Welcome to ThirdGen.org!
Welcome to ThirdGen.org.
You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, join the ThirdGen.org community today!
This is has been the worst project ever. Im on over a week of trying to get these things in. Racindaelky has been helping me and has helped me get a lot done. Only these things are almost impossible. I have coolant all over the ground, oil all over the ground, broken heater control. Tonight I tried to take the header back down so I could remove the oil cooler and the headers got jammed. I could not get them out and ended up breaking some sensor right above the oil cooler. I don't know if anyone knows what this sensor is? Please let me know so I can go buy another part for this stupid car.
This ad is not displayed to registered members. Register your free account today and become a member on ThirdGen!
Sponsored Links
Registered users do not see this ad. Click here to register for free!
For anyone who has read the tips presented from this thread in its entirety should have had zero problems and should have experienced zero surprises.
If you are dumping coolant, dumping coolant, breaking sensors, etc... IMO you have neglected the details and are now paying the price.
Sorry to be so negative but the info presented in the first few pages is so comprehensive that it is sick. All hicups have been documented for others to read about before they get a wrench in hand.
I hope things work out for you in the end.
And yes it is the oil pressure sender/fuel pump cut off switch. Pending your year it may only be a cutoff switch.
__________________ Superram 385 Stroker Motor & All The Fixins!
Originally posted by OMINOUS_87 For anyone who has read the tips presented from this thread in its entirety should have had zero problems and should have experienced zero surprises.
If you are dumping coolant, dumping coolant, breaking sensors, etc... IMO you have neglected the details and are now paying the price.
Sorry to be so negative but the info presented in the first few pages is so comprehensive that it is sick. All hicups have been documented for others to read about before they get a wrench in hand.
I hope things work out for you in the end.
And yes it is the oil pressure sender/fuel pump cut off switch. Pending your year it may only be a cutoff switch.
I have done everything that it said to do on the first page. The only thing that I failed to do is remove the oil cooler, which I am working on. That still does not solve the passenger side problem.
Maybe you should just unbolt the passenger side motor mount. and tilt the motor over slowly (with a hoist or a jack and peice of wood under the oil pan). That should make it 10x easier to slide it in from underneath... Also make sure your brake line doesnt get in the way, I had to bend mine out of the way and its still too close for comfort.
Originally posted by 88IROC350TPI Maybe you should just unbolt the passenger side motor mount. and tilt the motor over slowly (with a hoist or a jack and peice of wood under the oil pan). That should make it 10x easier to slide it in from underneath... Also make sure your brake line doesnt get in the way, I had to bend mine out of the way and its still too close for comfort.
i know that i put mine in withthe motor, but i know that i could easily get them in and out, with a/c box and everything...
the few snags i ran into only included k member clearence... still can't get that slip fit pipe to stop leakin tho lol
good luck dude, seems like ur just havin a tough time of things... calm down a bit and just take it one step at a time... i know that you have to tip the motor alot, and if you have to, undo the tranny mount too.
Originally posted by 383backinblack my hooker super comps fit right in, i put them in while the motor was going in, otherwise you cant get them in or out. However, i didnt have to modify anything and i used a stock size starter. I just ground a small notch in the bellhousing to slip the bump on the starter nose through
Quote:
Originally posted by Momar Same here. Headers went in while motor went in. Didnt have to modify anything. I dont know if I could get them out if I wanted or not, havent tried. I am also using the stock starter. It was a tight fit but I put it in after the headers were in. I just bought a LT1 and figure since I wont be doing anything with it for a while I may stick the starter on this motor for now anyway just so it is further away from the hot headers.
Ben
Any special instructions for installing them this way? My engine is out and it would seem to be a lot easier to set the headers in and then drop the engine down.
i installed my headers when i dropped the motor in... just tuck them in and have a few people hold them in place and guide the motor around th eheaders as you drop the engine down.... very easy
man traxion that really sounds good ...we used a set of the headman shorty headers and matching y pipe then used 3 inch exhaust all the way back to a no name free flow muffler....it sounds good but nothing compared to yours...
Well we are still working on these headers. Racindaelky and I probably have over 15 hours into it. So far: Drivers side is in. Knock sensor is relocated there. Oil cooler lines removed. Passenger side header is not bolted up(had it bolted up, but took it off and now it won't bolt back up) Starter is in there already and herder is just sitting there. For some reason we can only get some of the bolt holes lined up, but not all of them at the same time. We were having a problem with the slip tube lining up as well. I just took the motor mount bolt back out, which was really hard to do and I don't know if I am going to be able to get it back in. I just don't understand why this seems to be a little bit of work but it is not working out that way. All I really have to do is get the bolts in, tighten a couple spark plugs, put wires back on and fill with coolant and be finished. It doesn't seem to be quite that easy though.
Can I run regular AC Delco plugs and regular wires with these headers also?
BTW we also removed the whole A/C system while we were at it and I also have no emissions equipment. I thought it would be a whole lot easier.
I was just thinkin bout all the problems we had on my friends GTA installing a set of SLP shorties about a year ago... the car had been wrecked a couple times. Well, i found him a formula chassis in great shape. So over the past two weeks we've been putting everything from the gta into the formy, like suspensions, motor, trans, exhuast etc...
Come to find out, there was a massssive crack in the trans tunnel on the GTA, and we had all sorts of issues with clearence between the crossmemeber and the flanges on the headers!!!
We ended up heating up the crossmember in the areas they didnt fit, and pounding it in to provide clearence... we blamed it on crappy SLP products. Well, low and behold (the formy has all original body panels on it, so its never been hit or atleast hit hard unlike the GTA) the headers went right in with no clearence issues what so ever!!!
So, what i'm getting at here, is that there might be the possibility that your frame is tweaked (doesnt take much on these cars) and that is making it tough to get your headers in. Not saying it IS the case, but mine went into my firebird just like the instructions stated, i had to grind a little here and there but nothing major at all!
Originally posted by thegeneral man traxion that really sounds good ...we used a set of the headman shorty headers and matching y pipe then used 3 inch exhaust all the way back to a no name free flow muffler....it sounds good but nothing compared to yours...
There's nothing in this world like a healthy cam. A big 'ol cam will make a healthy exhaust sound absolutely incredible.
Originally posted by Thirdgen86TA Well we are still working on these headers. Racindaelky and I probably have over 15 hours into it. So far: Drivers side is in. Knock sensor is relocated there. Oil cooler lines removed. Passenger side header is not bolted up(had it bolted up, but took it off and now it won't bolt back up) Starter is in there already and herder is just sitting there. For some reason we can only get some of the bolt holes lined up, but not all of them at the same time. We were having a problem with the slip tube lining up as well. I just took the motor mount bolt back out, which was really hard to do and I don't know if I am going to be able to get it back in. I just don't understand why this seems to be a little bit of work but it is not working out that way. All I really have to do is get the bolts in, tighten a couple spark plugs, put wires back on and fill with coolant and be finished. It doesn't seem to be quite that easy though.
Can I run regular AC Delco plugs and regular wires with these headers also?
BTW we also removed the whole A/C system while we were at it and I also have no emissions equipment. I thought it would be a whole lot easier.
I had the same problem with my passenger side header. I could get the some of the bolts in but not all. Why? because the header was being forced upward by a) the brake line touching it and b) the control arm hitting the slip tube slightly. Then, I had a set of Stage-8 header bolts that have big bolt heads, they were too big and would hit the primary tubes when you tried putting them in.
No offense to ya but I dont think you're looking at the "big picture." Get under the car with a huge light and stare at the passenger header, wiggle it around, and you WILL see that its hitting something. The a-arm mount by the slip tube, the brake line that runs across the k-member, the starter, all could be interfering. Check each and every spot over and over again. The slightest interference will screw you up good. My brake line was the biggest PITA for me and is still far too close to the header for comfort - Thats why this weekend when I pull out my transmission i'm also going to yank the headers out and completely re-route the lines.
Originally posted by 88IROC350TPI I had the same problem with my passenger side header. I could get the some of the bolts in but not all. Why? because the header was being forced upward by a) the brake line touching it and b) the control arm hitting the slip tube slightly. Then, I had a set of Stage-8 header bolts that have big bolt heads, they were too big and would hit the primary tubes when you tried putting them in.
No offense to ya but I dont think you're looking at the "big picture." Get under the car with a huge light and stare at the passenger header, wiggle it around, and you WILL see that its hitting something. The a-arm mount by the slip tube, the brake line that runs across the k-member, the starter, all could be interfering. Check each and every spot over and over again. The slightest interference will screw you up good. My brake line was the biggest PITA for me and is still far too close to the header for comfort - Thats why this weekend when I pull out my transmission i'm also going to yank the headers out and completely re-route the lines.
Yeah I had it towed to a shop for them to finish. I thought it was only going to cost a couple hundred. They foulnd out it was hitting the starter so they dented it a little bit. Unfortunately they needed to redo the starter wires and charged me $600 to cut and splice a couple wires.
keeping this post alive.... i just finished gettin the T56 in my 91 Z using a SPD crossmember and my next plan is for the exhaust as my 383 is still being built up. i REALLY REALLY want LT headers and for the kind of power my supercharged 383 will be putting out it is a necessity to have a good flowing exhaust. mys car is lowered 2" but will a very stiff suspension and i was wondering if anyone has measured the lowest point of the Hooker LT headers from the ground? these will prob be my lowest point as i plan to get a custom oval y pipe to connect to the 4" Mufflex catback i will be buying soon.
also incase the headers are too low, is there any way of an exhaust shop bending the collectors upwards at all? i have a tubular K member and A-arms (incase that will be affected), would there be any clearancing problems?
my VERY LAST resort would be to raise the car which i DO NOT want to do. the only raising i would consider at this point is the old fashoined ******* rear end raising to give the car that mean looking stance
My car will be lowered when it comes home from the body shop tommorow, once the springs are in i will measure... even with the drop, i dont believe the headers will be the problem. the y-pipe hnags much lower than the headers
oh man...last i looked my car was damn low and i think the oil pan was about 5 maybe 6 inches off the ground hopefully higher. but my T56 crossmember was the lowest point of my entire underbody except for that plastic air scoop or guard underneath the front of the car. im gonna go measure when i get the chance later today, i really need and want LT headers with 1 3/4 primaries.
Originally posted by TRAXION There's nothing in this world like a healthy cam. A big 'ol cam will make a healthy exhaust sound absolutely incredible.
Tim
I know what you mean ...lol....we had a 73 split bumper camaro when me and my wife got married and we built a 355 for it when all was done we ended up havein 6000 + just in the engine and man that was a mean mofo..lol....it had a very healthy cam i cant reamember the exact specs on it but i do remember it was a .580 int. .600 lift we had the heads reworked to 2.02 int. 1.60 exh .. and had a pete jackson geardrive . longtube headers 3 inch exhaust and man that thing would pass everything but a gas station ..LMAO...but we let it sit at our house we were moveing from for a week and when we came back to get the car someone had torn the whole top half of the engine off and taken all the rolller rockers and geardrive and heads off the car ...needless to say i was pissed !!!!...but we ended up finding out who did it and got all the parts back thru the police (for once they did there j0b)....but never got the engine back together and sold the engine to a friend of mine i worked with and then just put a crate motor back in the 73 i was disapointed but we had our first kid right then and i figured i needed to grow up ...ya right !!..LOL..but now 11 years later were still buildin monsters again and trying new ideas and suggestions on what to do ...im thinkin of ordering a twin turbo set up for our next project just a thought right now $$$$is a issue so were just waitin to see what we can do
also were gonna have to rework every aspect of the rear suspension to make sure we can put the power to the ground or its pointless in my opinoin to even do it what you guys think?????
__________________ •"I work on my chevy because I want to ..I work on your ford because you pay me too"------THEGENERAL
•"If it's true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?"-------George Carlin
•There's a place for all of gods creatures .....right next to the Potatoes & Gravy!
•R.I.P. Johnny Carson, 1925 - 2005 You will be missed.......
•"Never argue with an idiot, they'll just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience".....METALICAMARORS
Originally posted by KagA152 what are you running for motor mounts?
Stock, tired .
I got a few more pics of my Y-pipe over the weekend. You can sort of see the crossmember a bit as well. They are pretty big so I will just link to em - Dialup Beware! .
EDIT: Oh yeah, and as you can see, the Canton oil pan fits great with these headers .
EDIT #2: I did have a problem with that 13077 Bosch 3-wire O2 sensor.... I am thinking it was either an improperly calibrated sensor or it had something to do with the grounding of the sensor through the exhaust with the headers being coated or something. I ended up going to an LT1 4-wire O2 and it works much, much better. I guess I don't really think the grounding was the problem when you take into consideration all of the other cars running coated headers and whatnot, but it might play a role in it. Either way, going to a 4-wire from a 4th gen (pre-cat sensor) brought my air fuel ratios in line with BLMs that are at least within range for the ECM to work with. With the 13077 I had 128-ish BLMs with a nice and fat 13.2-13.5 air fuel ratio (via an LM1 wideband O2), the 4-wire has me a tad lean with 128 BLMs (or close) but I can deal with that if it is only for idle and light cruise. WOT will trigger PE and air fuel can be adjusted accordingly in those tables... I will be dynoing the car later this week .
__________________ 1987 GTA / Miniram'd 383/ TH???? / 9" w/4.33s : Far from stock, far from done.... Link to the GTA
1999 Trans Am / LS1 / T56 : Patriot Heads and Cam, the usual bolt ons... Link to the Trans Am
My car will be lowered when it comes home from the body shop tommorow, once the springs are in i will measure... even with the drop, i dont believe the headers will be the problem. the y-pipe hnags much lower than the headers
Steve
have you measured the clearance yet? i was lookin under my car and using your pic of the headers compared to oil pan, looks like im gonna be getting 2" of ground clearance from the collectors.
also i am buying 17" rims wrapped with 315/35-17 tires in the rear and 255/50-17 in the front. will this combo raise my car at all as i currently have stock 16" 91 rims with 245/50-16 tires?
To answer on your tires question, no you still have pretty much the same diameter tire as before, you will see no lift from that.
To answer teh ground clearence question. Obviously the body of the car dropped down. I have alum heads and a fiberglass hood, so my car sits a little taller than iron headed stock hooded cars in the front. That being said, i have about 3-3.5" of ground clearence on the lowest point which for me is the y-pipe. The headers im guesing about 4-4.5" of clearence.
Honestly, i've yet to botom out with the springs in the car, mostly because the stock springs were so soft that the car would settle down a lot before returning to its normal hieght.
Originally posted by Matt87GTA I will be dynoing the car later this week .
Well, things are still not quite sorted out all the way as I am seeing some valve float of all things at about 6000rpm and it just quits pulling above 6k (it should pull to 6500+). That and I need to do a plug change and try a bigger TB and better air intake system.
But anyways, hit 419.8 HP / 389.7 RWTQ so far...... Brodix is sending out another set of springs and I am going to work on the other little things and head back to the dyno in a few weeks (would be earlier but I have some other obligations to take care of in June).
The dyno staff loved the 4" Mufflex .
__________________ 1987 GTA / Miniram'd 383/ TH???? / 9" w/4.33s : Far from stock, far from done.... Link to the GTA
1999 Trans Am / LS1 / T56 : Patriot Heads and Cam, the usual bolt ons... Link to the Trans Am
damn sounds like its running strong even with the valve float to get those numbers like to see what you get when you get everything corrected on it ...
__________________ •"I work on my chevy because I want to ..I work on your ford because you pay me too"------THEGENERAL
•"If it's true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?"-------George Carlin
•There's a place for all of gods creatures .....right next to the Potatoes & Gravy!
•R.I.P. Johnny Carson, 1925 - 2005 You will be missed.......
•"Never argue with an idiot, they'll just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience".....METALICAMARORS
Originally posted by Matt87GTA Well, things are still not quite sorted out all the way as I am seeing some valve float of all things at about 6000rpm and it just quits pulling above 6k (it should pull to 6500+).
Brodix is sending out another set of springs
How much preload are you using on the rockers? i run only an 1/8th turn of preload, this got us the best result as far as valve float. xr288 cam, biggest springs you can get away with on hydrolic lifters AND the rev kit... was able to spin the motor to 7200 with very little valve float. With the intial amount of preload i put in them, it started floatin around 6k...
New springs should help, i'm about due to put new ones in my motor...
As for the mufflex system - which muffler did you go with? the spintech or the other one they offer?
has anyone had any experience with or have any idea of the chances of installing these headers with moroso solid motor mounts? i believe the motor sits about an inch lower than with stock mounts any reply would be appreciated thanks....
Originally posted by ChevyCamaro4lif REALLY NEED AN ANSWER TO THIS.....
WOULD THERE BE ANY CLEARANCE PROBLEMS IF IM USING THE HOOKER SUPER COMP LONG TUBES ON MY 91 Z 350 W/TRICKFLOW HEADS AND....I HAVE PA TUBULAR A-ARMS AND TUBULAR K-MEMBER???
Don't think anyone answered you so i will.
NO clearence problems at with this set-up. I installed my motor hoping my LT's would slide in form the bottom, and they do, with plenty of room, heck they almost fell right back down on me.
Here's what the bottom looks like, the headers are not in this pic, just my PA Racing tubular K and my Moroso 6qt pan on my HSR 383
__________________ Arctic White 92 RS, 383 all motor! 11.49@114
Originally posted by SLP IROC-Z i must say TRAXION, ur car with the LTs, ORY and the 6" round ultraflow sounds amazing! that is the sound i would like to acheive with my car
What do you guys suggest the lowest to go with these headers my car will be mostly show and some track time. I just dont want to mess them up or scrape on anything.
stock youd scrape on stuff if youre not careful. i have a prokit on my car and didnt have too many problems. i just never went over anything my air dam scraped on, because i knew the headers would scrape. now the exhaust behind the headers, thats another problem
__________________
91 T/A - Under the knife
00 GTP - Faster then the T/A was
Well damn I need some good flow and my air dam always scrapes at the end of the drive way but i need to fix that. You think the slp 1 3/4 would restrict a 383 if i run a cut out it might help also.
383 is to vague. what cam/heads/intake and everything else you can tell us about the car. but i dont think any body has any good hard proof of what difference there is between the two. if somebody wants to donate to my purpose, i happen to have both sets sitting in my garage right now
Will the slps be good for over 450 hp hook both up and do some dyno runs I just dont feel like listing out all the parts everytime i mention the engine.
on my 350, im losing 70rwhp through my exhuast... dual 3" ypipe to a single 3".... food for thought... a custom dual 3" or single 4" will be int he plans fornext year
id be more then willing to do some runs since i have somewhat easy access to a chassis dyno, BUT, i dont have a motor put together and was planning on selling the slps of lessening the pain of the costs
Not sure if anyone posted this or if it's assumed, but when I did mine just yesterday, all of the spark plug were removed and I pulled out both sensors in the heads. The passenger side had to be jack up just a little b/c of the brake line one the cross member. But the motor mount did not have to be removed. The driver's side was easier IMO. Even though the Oil pressure sending unit, oil filter AND SLAVE CYLINDER had to be removed. Not all that bad.
Question for those that have had their heads angle milled, does it cause the headers to interfere in new areas? I have not bought the 2210's yet, but I plan too in the not so distant future. The heads I will be ordering (AFR's) will probably be angle milled to 58cc. I believe the problem would be the heads wanting to tuck in closer to the engine. Anyone with angle milled heads and hooker 2210 have any advice? Thanks.
Originally posted by David 91RS/Z28 I had my O2 bung welded at the 3 o'clock position if your looking at the collector. Plenty of room with a 5speed. Pic below.
Also, I didn't have to jack up any side of the engine. Maybe I got lucky. Great write up Trax.
evertime I see a pic of long headers coming together
then going all the way back and out, Im thinking why not
just turn them out before the rear wheels.
anybody run these headers with an aftermaret oil pan? I'm junking my hedmans because they're too small, and I'm also getting a bigger pan, but i want to know who's running a non-stock pan with bigger capacity that fits with these hedders. anyone?
i'm going to add a tubular k-member, but i'm waiting for spohn to make one, first. so for now, I'm looking for some headers that will work better than my hedmans, still fit with the 383 I'm building, and clear a bigger pan. do you have any goround clearance issues with that pan? who makes it? how much?
aaaaah. looks bigger in the pic. I'll look at a couple deep pans. if i don't find anything, i'll just scour up a pan i have laying around. thanks for the help!
.
