ExhaustPost your questions and suggestions about stock or aftermarket exhaust setups. Third Gen exhaust sound files and videos!
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i don't know man, it probably would help. what i am saying is that my friend has a 3400lbs. fourthgen running 10's on 1 5/8" shorties. you could probably do the same on say a set of MAC or hooker 2055's. MAC's are cheaper though (if you get in on the group on this page)
the thing you have to remember is that the slp's y-pipe bottlenecks down to 2 1/4". that is where you are going to be hurt performance wise. a set of MAC's or Hookers comes with a 2 1/2" y-pipe that y's into a 3" pipe.
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So it's basically a choice of where you want your restriction, the exhaust gas spends not much time in the primaries....so it isn't a huge issue if the collector and everything else flows well.
Hedman Hedders also manufactures an ELITE version of the 68470 listing shown. HEDMAN part number 68478 has 14 gauge 1-5/8" primaries and .375" flanges all around. THis header already comes with a ceramic metallic coating, so it needs no additional coating.
the same Y-Pipe works for either the standard 68470, or the 68478 Elite model. Hedman's Y-Pipe number 17470 is made specifically to use with these Hedman Hedders
Oh, if you don't mind spending a bit more for more horses, there is also a stepped tube version called tork-step that has tubes that are stepped. Stepped tube headers have been used for racing applications, like NASCAR, for years. the tubes step from 1-1/2" to 1-5/8". The step in the tube speeds up exhaust flow, and the more exhuast gas you can get out of the combustion chamber, the more fresh fuel your intake can feed it. More fresh fuel translates into more torque. They really do work. the part number for the stepped header is 68474.
sorry to get off topic, but Iroc57L, the stock 22 lb/hr injectors will accomodate up to 450hp+ and do it very well with increased pressure, because they have a great spray pattern. Unless your pushing 425 hp, running anything larger than a 22 lb/hr injector will reduce the efficiency of the injectors, and they will act lazy. You would have to run a higher pressure along with the larger injectors to achieve a similar spray pattern, which would probaby make your car run on the rich side, and hurt your over all power out put. If you really need new injectors, just buy a new set of 22lb/hr's and a pressure regulator. I ran 14.70's in my 89 formula 350 while slipping, and I only had a flowmaster muffler.
sorry to get off topic, but Iroc57L, the stock 22 lb/hr injectors will accomodate up to 450hp+ and do it very well with increased pressure, because they have a great spray pattern. Unless your pushing 425 hp, running anything larger than a 22 lb/hr injector will reduce the efficiency of the injectors, and they will act lazy. You would have to run a higher pressure along with the larger injectors to achieve a similar spray pattern, which would probaby make your car run on the rich side, and hurt your over all power out put. If you really need new injectors, just buy a new set of 22lb/hr's and a pressure regulator. I ran 14.70's in my 89 formula 350 while slipping, and I only had a flowmaster muffler.
Check out my site for other mod info.
At 65 psi and STATIC a 22# injector, assuming a BSFC of .50 is can barely support 429HP. And these are unrealistic numbers.
The highest rail pressure you'd want to run would be around 55psi, 60 max.. BSFC will hardly ever be .50, but even if it was and about an 85% duty cycle would be around 335hp.
Please do not post again until you have half an idea what your talking about.
oh, well its funny that you say that, because tpis has used stock injectors on 350's putting out over 450 hp, with increased fuel pressure.
This is right out of the TPIS insider hints book.
With the tpi system it is not uncommon to generate bsfc #'s on the order of .40 to .45. After four years of testing tpi engines, with displacements ranging from 305-406 ci, we have found that the stock 350 injector is capable of flowing enough fuel for over 450 hp, and a 305 injector should flow enough fuel for 350+ hp. We have successfully used stock 350 nozzles on supercharged 350's and n/a 406 engines. Raise the fuel pressure with a adjustable fuel pressure regulator, and you have even higher fuel flow capabilities. Perhaps you should do some more research. Not to mention my local shop has used 22 lb/hr injectors and has built motors that produce over 450 hp with cleaned stock 22/lb hr injectors, and my shop builds motors that produce over 2700 hp.
oh, well its funny that you say that, because tpis has used stock injectors on 350's putting out over 450 hp, with increased fuel pressure.
This is right out of the TPIS insider hints book.
With the tpi system it is not uncommon to generate bsfc #'s on the order of .40 to .45. After four years of testing tpi engines, with displacements ranging from 305-406 ci, we have found that the stock 350 injector is capable of flowing enough fuel for over 450 hp, and a 305 injector should flow enough fuel for 350+ hp. We have successfully used stock 350 nozzles on supercharged 350's and n/a 406 engines. Raise the fuel pressure with a adjustable fuel pressure regulator, and you have even higher fuel flow capabilities. Perhaps you should do some more research. Not to mention my local shop has used 22 lb/hr injectors and has built motors that produce over 450 hp with cleaned stock 22/lb hr injectors, and my shop builds motors that produce over 2700 hp.
Sorry to get off topic, but I'm going to back up what I said.
The TPIS book is filled with errors and mistakes. TPIS is not very popular on this site as far as advice and methods go. A lot of us have been doing this a long time, and have learned from mistakes of poor advice.
Stock lucas injectors have been proven on ECM benches to go erratic at high pressures and high duty cycles.
I don't need to do any more research. Your the newbie.
anesthes: 22lb/hr injectors might be a little much for your meager combination, might want to step down to a set of 18s and run at 80psi base fuel pressure with an inline Aeromotive pump to push it over 150psi under boost.
Then again you might just do like you already did and run bigger injectors instead of trying to sell a "clean and balance" service for near the cost of a new set of injectors. Compensation of smaller injectors with higher fuel pressure works, yes, but if you can run bigger injectors with the same or better driveability while at the same time not running your fuel pump at higher pressure constantly reducing its lifespan and using fuel pressure to compensate for too-small injectors then why wouldn't you?
anesth' your right I'm just a newbie and I don't know anything, just come out to my drag strip, and I'll run you, and put your newbie lingo to the test.
This is my last post here, b/c of rules. I don't talk stuff, rather give some good advice when I think it is helpful to someone else, rather than go off on me, just come out to the track in your car, and like I said, and I'll destroy you in my formula; and If I get really ambitous I'll take out our 68 GTO with our 461, and just over 650 hp at the flywheel.
newbie thats funny, I don't have to post about anything important
because I know what needs to be done, I've been surfing these forums for several years now, and have been in to cars for more than half of my lifetime already, I'm no stroke or newbie!
just come out to my drag strip, and I'll run you, and put your newbie lingo to the test.
"My car is faster than yours, blah blah". Your a kid in school, noone wants to hear it. You want to be respected around here, change your attitude. I'm not impressed with you, or your cars. My car goes 12s, maybe 11s this spring and that still doesn't impress me. About the only thirdgen on here that DOES impress me is Tory Hess's 9 second street firebird. Otherwise, they're all just Thirdgens like mine.
Frankly I don't care if you run a 17, or a 10. If you give bad advice i'm gonna tell you. I don't care who's book you read. There are hundreds of guys on here (myself included!) who have proven TPIS wrong with numerous setups.
Quote:
just come out to the track in your car, and like I said, and I'll destroy you in my formula; and If I get really ambitous I'll take out our 68 GTO with our 461, and just over 650 hp at the flywheel.
Noone cares much for this attitude. The "Meet me at the track" crap sounds much like "meet me after school, and bring your lunch money too!".
One thing I notice conspicuously absent: Average primary length.
I s'pose that's a bit much to ask unless we get people to measure this prior to installation *shrug*
One thing I notice conspicuously absent: Average primary length.
I s'pose that's a bit much to ask unless we get people to measure this prior to installation *shrug*
If we're talking about shorties, they're all gonna be different. Even the hooker 2055's are not equal length. I spoke to them about this.
Yeah...that's why I said "average" primary length.
I'm not personally aware of anyone that makes a true equal length full length header either, but the average primary length still determines the scavenging RPM of the header.
I put a brand new set of the discontinued stainless SLP Tri-Y's in my 91 Formula when we pulled the 305 and put in the 383 a week ago. I had the dual cat set-up on this car, and I have to say that it's a shame SLP doesn't make these anymore. No denting was required, and the Y-pipes go right to the connections for the cats - no problem. No fitment problems at all. And that's while retaining the air conditioning, AIR pump, power steering, etc. We removed nothing to put these on the car. Very nice set-up. Only problem encountered was the SLP A.I.R. fittings both point up (vertical) while the original fitting on the driver's side was horizontal. Simple rubber hose bend fixed that one though. If you can find any of these, I recommend them highly!!! Plus ACS for the excellent coating job I had done on mine. Another great bunch of folks.
. - Vern
__________________ 91 Formula WS6; dual Catco cats; Spohn sub-frames, panhard bar; TDS WonderBar; BMR adj. T/A; Hotchkiss STB; Lakewood LCAs; 2002 power leather seats; T-56 6-speed; CF-DF clutch; shortened Pro 5.0 shifter; Spohn X-member; 4th Gen console; 2002 Monsoon unit; MSD (Digital 6+ box, 8.5mm wires, and coil); 4.10 Ford 9".
I installed ceramic coated Hedman shorties - I believe the number was 68481. They had the AIR tubes as well as the bung for the O2 sensor. They weren't Too hard to install - I guess...
__________________ Speedgraphic
'90 RS Vert
New Paint, Top, Interior, Rims, Tires. IROC Swaybars, Alston SFC's, Billet Aluminum LCA's, Panhard rod and STB by Edelbrok. Hedman headers, Carsound CAT and Banks Catback. Restored close to stock. Installing XM Radio was one of the best things I ever did!
"It's hard to slow down, when you were born to run."
I put some edelbrock tes shorties and y with the chrome coating on the shorties, and the installation went well plug access is good on all but the number 6,8 cylinders, all the rest were great, I can't wait to put a set on my daily driven 87, last night I chirpped third, and thats without headers, and a stock transmission, with just my trans cooler, ah mid 13's here we come.
im doin a 350 swap (carbed, no ecm)... is there any long tube headers that will fit? does it make a difference that i have a carbed 350? or is the room for headders still the same restriction wise?
Sheesh...just when i thought the 2055s would suit me best...in comes the hedman long tubes and yadda yadda. So does a 2055 and its y-pipe bolt right up to a 3" cat and 3" flowmaster? or do i need to modify it. Also I was looking around for a good (cost effective) 1 3/4 header with a y-pipe that requires little modification. What is my best bet? the 68470? Can I get my hands on the Elites and y-pipe for around $500?
Originally posted by Avenger007 Sheesh...just when i thought the 2055s would suit me best...in comes the hedman long tubes and yadda yadda. So does a 2055 and its y-pipe bolt right up to a 3" cat and 3" flowmaster? or do i need to modify it. Also I was looking around for a good (cost effective) 1 3/4 header with a y-pipe that requires little modification. What is my best bet? the 68470? Can I get my hands on the Elites and y-pipe for around $500?
ya my opinion of the 2055s has changed throughout these posts. Im looking for a 1 3/4 now tho and It seems like the only ones making them is SLP and Hooker. Both exit to a 3". The hooker ones are 2210 Long Tubes. Anyone have experience with these. I found a topic about their installation but found nothing as to how effective they are performance wise, if they include y-pipe, and how much they cost. If 2210s work (ground clearance in mind after 1' drop) then itll go to y-pipe to 3" cat and then to a American Thunder 3" 80 series system. Sound decent if im looking for power and with 400+ hp in mind in near future?
thanks
Originally posted by Avenger007 ya my opinion of the 2055s has changed throughout these posts. Im looking for a 1 3/4 now tho and It seems like the only ones making them is SLP and Hooker. Both exit to a 3". The hooker ones are 2210 Long Tubes. Anyone have experience with these. I found a topic about their installation but found nothing as to how effective they are performance wise, if they include y-pipe, and how much they cost. If 2210s work (ground clearance in mind after 1' drop) then itll go to y-pipe to 3" cat and then to a American Thunder 3" 80 series system. Sound decent if im looking for power and with 400+ hp in mind in near future?
thanks
I'm running the hedmans.. My setups over 500hp.
IMO the long tubes are overkill.
So the 2055s wont feel restrictive once i get up to 400+? sounds good...im guessing thats my best choice unless there are other 1 5/8 with a better setup out ther (without breaking my wallet)
i was wondering if anyone knew where i could get a set of FULL LENGTH headers..i am attempting to do a true dual exhaust system with PURCHASABLE parts...no custom fabrication...i heard that they no longer make full length for the 3rd gen..is this true?? any help will be greaty appreciated!
Originally posted by loudpypsws6 i was wondering if anyone knew where i could get a set of FULL LENGTH headers..i am attempting to do a true dual exhaust system with PURCHASABLE parts...no custom fabrication...i heard that they no longer make full length for the 3rd gen..is this true?? any help will be greaty appreciated!
There are some stickys on exactly what your trying to do.
I see the full lengths on ebay often.
Unless this is a new y-pipe for the 2460s i think we already went over how its not 3". I believe its either 2.5 or 2.25. Theres an SLP vs 2055 thread discussing how the 2460 y didnt come out very good and left many stuck with a poor design.
If someone can verify the part that would be great. JEGS has it as a special order item and doesnt show specs.
i called them myself and asked if they carried that part.he told me it was a 3 inch collector pipe.and they would have to order it,be worth the wait i think
later
Two nice things about them are the port flange thickness and
the stainless factor.
Run them and install them on other cars, and hate header leaks.
Usually two heat cycles and no need to play tighten the header
bolt game everytime you pop the hood
And stainless usually go the life of the car.
Don't coat mine as like the competishness look of them when
they turn blue and orange in the elbows with use.
The thick flanges are nice, but their construction promotes warping of the whole assembly, it’s not at all uncommon for a set of SLP’s to come off an engine and never want o line up with the ports correctly again.
Second, stainless is nice from a durability standpoint, but the 409 stainless that SLP uses is just like a lot the OEM stainless headers…. Yea, it’s durable and won’t rust through, but looks just as nasty and rusted after a few heat cycles as any other steel header.
As to warping, never had that problem in the six or seven sets
I have installed.
I never take header bolts loose when hot or even warm. Wait
until completely cooled off which is usually the cause of that
problem. Even Big heavy cast iron OEM manifolds notorious
for that.
As to looks after use, I usually wipe em down with acetone
every so often and brings back all the colors I like.
Judges at the car shows we go to, kinda like that look also.
i had a lot done to my car over the winter and im just about done. all i have left to do know is exhaust, i have a brand new set of hooker 2460's and after reading all this i think im in a bad situation, at first i was going to go with dual 2.5, but then people were telling me about clearance so then they got me thinking single 3", but now i dont know because all this stuff about y-pipe and more money. Im not going to put cats at all, so what would be my smartest move here, its a 1985 IROC.
I'd go for single 3" with good Cat back.
Pick a header with good Y-pipe and forget about ground
dragging exhaust systems for all out race cars.
Just my opinion
Joel, If you don't have to run a cat then you get the luxury of making the choice. Where I live they are required, but never tested for. Even though I was confident that I could get away without a cat I chose to put a low restriction device on anyway. I felt that If I should chose to sell the car at some point in the future that It would appear to be the diffrence between someone doing the job right and just jacking around with their car... That works for me but not for everyone! My car is a cruiser and not a quarter miler. It has enough performance to surprise a few Mustangs and to be a whole lot of fun, but it is not an all out racer. I never intended it to be.
Having wasted all the type on the above: Not having a Cat is not that big of a deal. I would go ahead with the single 3" system. Get the best Y pipe you can find to mate with your headers, and use the best catback system you can find for the rest of the exhaust. In place of the CAT just weld in a length of staright exhaust pipe between the Y pipe and the catback. You are done and you don't have some dang cat screwing things up. (Did I tell you that I hate cats?)
A good Catback is designed to flow the most exhaust possible. This applies whether you have a cat or not...
My system consists of Ceramic Coated Hedmans going into a Carsound Cat and then into a SS Banks Stinger Catback. The Banks system gives you a very nice rumble at cruise, and it really tells the news when you punch it. The restricting factor on my car is the Intake/Throttle Body not the exhaust!
Hope this helps!
Speedy
__________________ Speedgraphic
'90 RS Vert
New Paint, Top, Interior, Rims, Tires. IROC Swaybars, Alston SFC's, Billet Aluminum LCA's, Panhard rod and STB by Edelbrok. Hedman headers, Carsound CAT and Banks Catback. Restored close to stock. Installing XM Radio was one of the best things I ever did!
"It's hard to slow down, when you were born to run."
well i just hate the idea of even having a catback, its just not what i want. i think im gonna go dual so i think im just gonna run 2.5 from my 2460's and then maybe into a couple of glasspacks, i guess i will have to try to get the best clearance i can. what would dual and glasspacks sound like on a thirdgen?
Originally posted by joel_157 . what would dual and glasspacks sound like on a thirdgen?
Joel, It's your car, so if duals is what you want then go for it!
I believe that if you check you will find that you aren't going to flow a significant amount more air through dual 2.5's over a single 3" system... I believe you would also have to be running a very heavily modified engine to realize any increase in performance from the small flow gain.
What would Glass Packs on a thirdgen sound like. You probably heard it on the way to work this morning. It would sound like a pickup truck with glasspacks.
Speedy
__________________ Speedgraphic
'90 RS Vert
New Paint, Top, Interior, Rims, Tires. IROC Swaybars, Alston SFC's, Billet Aluminum LCA's, Panhard rod and STB by Edelbrok. Hedman headers, Carsound CAT and Banks Catback. Restored close to stock. Installing XM Radio was one of the best things I ever did!
"It's hard to slow down, when you were born to run."
Originally posted by marclewis
[b]Hedman Hedders also manufactures an ELITE version of the 68470 listing shown. HEDMAN part number 68478 has 14 gauge 1-5/8" primaries and .375" flanges all around.
the same Y-Pipe works for either the standard 68470, or the 68478 Elite model. Hedman's Y-Pipe number 17470 is made specifically to use with these Hedman Hedders
I tried this option - not entirely true, at least for a 1992. The Y-Pipe flange doesn't fit very well with the ball collector on the header. When you bolt it all in, the Y-Pipe wants to rub against the bottom of the car, and not seal well with the ball.
I contacted Hedman, and they said they made no Y-Pipe for the Elite part number. Contacted Summit also - they insist that the part won't fit at all - the brain-child I spoke with insisted that a 1992 is a 4th gen - Oh well.
However, it fit in mine, with some slight mods. The Elite headers come with a pair of adapters, whose flared end does fit the ball very well. I used the adapters, cutting about 1.5 - 2 inches from the wide end, and had them welded to the inside of the flange of the Y-Pipe - making an "extension" of sorts, giving clearance to the underside. I'm no good at attaching pics here - anyone wants a looksee, PM me and I'll send pics.
Also, know that the ball end of this header will touch against a stock starter for an older (1970's) block. Might want to get a smaller, performance starter for an older block if using these Elite headers.
Last edited by camaronewbie; 07-23-2005 at 06:18 PM.
I have an 86 pontiac trans am that came with the factory 305cid engine with a carb.
the engine went bad on me so a friend was going to junk out his old truck and he gave me the engine out of it, it ran good in his truck but his truck was wrecked pretty bad and I couldnt run the engine very long.
I pulled the engine out and replaced all gaskets and painted the engine black before installing it in my car. after getting it in the car I noticed that the stock 305 exhaust manifolds dont quite fit up to the new engine, the passenger side rear exhaust port doesnt meet up with the heads exhaust port.
so my question is if I buy a set of headers for a 1986 f body car I dont think the passengers side would match up , or should I buy a set of headers for an older engine and make them work in the cars engine bay?
any help or info would be much apreciated
sorry I didnt give much info on the engine, it's a 69 - 80 chevy 350
the block numbers are 3970010 .
I have removed the cat from the exhaust and removed the ac system.
also the stock manifolds have tha A.I.R that are curently plugged with some small pipe plugs.
Last edited by darrells3rdgen; 07-31-2005 at 05:24 AM.
Hi there, just got off the phone with headman, where I asked if they could recomand some headers for my -86 camaro. The guy I spoke with recomanded #68470 or #68479, but he did not now if they where compatible with an OEM style Y-pipe! That is important because I'm propable gone by MAC Y-pipe #48692, which is an OEM replacement. Does anyone now if this headers will fit OEM style Y-pipe?
The guys at AFR told me it doesn't matter if I use D-or Oval-port shape headers on the 180cc heads. The sylinderheads have stright plugs.
I'm planing on getting MAC cat-back system #86911 for the camaro. Anyone who have experiance with this system?
Originally posted by FastZ28*84 I have the 1 3/4 SLP's and they do not required a dent to fit properly. Mine did rub after initial installation. I called the guys at SLP and asked why they rubbed and they told me I probably had "saggy motor mounts." I never heard of saggy mounts before so I asked some buddys and confirmed they do sag. So I replaced just the driver side with a poly mount and now I actually have about 3/4 inch clearance between the header and the steering.
These cars are getting old gentleman and rubber does not last forever.
Found this somewhere in a search.. dont remeber where but just an FYI Regarding SLP headers and Steering column clearance issues...I too ran into the clearance issues that were not resolved by motor mount replacement.. I simply loosened the bolts to the shaft at the firewall, pushed it away from the headers as far it would go, tightened the bolts again and presto!! plenty of space with no hacking. Its a good thing too as I refused to dent a set of 600.00 coated headers. I also informed SLP of my experience for the next poor sole that runs across this issue.
