Avenger007

hmmm...i didnt see that there was 2 pages to this topic. Thanks shifty for the pics and instructions. So for us who buy new headers without AIR cant we just remove the whole thing and not need to worry about plugging any holes? Any final verdict on how it does with emissions because if its no big deal then Woohoo! away with AIR!

91CamaroRS305

i feel special i never knew my post was a sticky, but Avenger emissions is primarily based on where you live, but all some how connected to the California laws, so if you have strick emissions and they require a visual each time you may have to get the headers with the AIR on it, but if you go lax laws you may be able to pass with a single cat converter or have to double it up on the cats, but it all depends on the laws and how they go about emission testing(like out in the boonies by Chicago they are real easy, sometimes they don't even require it, darn city!)

*F-BodyFanatic*

I had edelbrock headers and then flowmaster exhaust put on. When I did this, I took off the AIR system and the cat. Since then my check engine light will come on every once in awhile. Someone suggested to me that it might be from removing the AIR system... is this true?

aaron7

BIGJON

Yep it will throw a code... not sure which one but it will trip your ses light...

aaron7

I as well ran into that problem, just yank the Check Engine bulb. Most of the things that make that come on are the emissions. When you start taking things off that are needed for the motor to run right, you will run into problems.

BTW, removing the AIR pump is really not worth it IMHO.

robsgta

You can get a chip burned to by pass the AIR sensors. Dont unplug your SES!! How are you going to know when anything else is out thats important like and oxygen sensor or a MAF ??
Removing it sheds a few pounds and makes your eninge compartment look less clutered.

galletti

Sorry, double post.

galletti

This thread has been great. I have a few questions. Some may be basic but I hope they'll help others. When removing AIR, how is EGR affected exactly? Should it be removed as well? If so, exactly what should be removed? If the AIR pump is removed what size belt would I now need? Is there a delete pulley available? If so, from whom? Since the subject of emissions has been touched upon, I have some questions about this also. As I understand it, if you get your engine to burn the air/fuel mixture more efficiently, emissions should be better. Is this correct? If so, a better ignition system should help with emissions. This is why changing your plugs and cables helps. So, what can I do, other that plugs and cables, to more thoroughly and cleanly burn the air/fuel mixture and therefore reduce emisions? Is there anything else not related to this that can be done to reduce them? Thanks for your help.

Dr.NickRiviera

An MSD ignition box might help out with emissions as it, if i remeber correctly produces multiple sparks or hotter to completely burn off the fuel mixture.

Duck

About two years ago I removed the AIR pump, tubing and inserted brass plugs in the stock exhaust manifolds on my '87 5.7 TPI car that has been upgraded to a single serpentine belt system.

The car is a daily driver averaging 15,000 miles per year and gets an average of 20 mpg. Originally I did the "shorter belt" trick, but the AC cycling on-off produced a lot of belt-flop and out of concern for losing the belt someday, the GM export replacement pully was installed to take up the slack and use the stock serpentine belt.

Bottom line so far is that there has been absolutely no changes in performance, driveability, mileage or problems with SES alerts. The benefit has been better access to the engine and a much improved underhood appearance.

Did the mod produce problems with the fuel-air mixure or ECM? If so, I've not noticed any just driving the car day-to-day and it has 160K on the odometer. Perhaps when I start PROM tuning I'll be able to see any anomalies.

Here's the GM-Parts info for the pump replacement pully.

http://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/show...og+pump+delete (1LE / AC Delete / Smog Delete Pulley info)

__________________
Duck_Pearl City, HI
87 IROC-Z 5.7, 92 Z28 5.7 25th Anniversary, 92 RS 25th Anniversary, 91 RS Ragtop

galletti

Thanks for the info. My spark plugs, distributor cap are bought and my AIR delete pulley, new cat and spark plug wires are ordered. Hopefully this will solve my emissions problems. I think by removing my air I'll solve the code 34 I've been getting. It's suppossed to be EGR and I've tried many things, but, if my diverter valve is clogged and my O2 sensor getting false readings, therefore creating a rich situation, this may be my problem. Not to mention all the other advantages to AIR delete. If I don't pass this year, I'll try getting a new ignition box and coil. I still need to know if I need to remove EGR and, if so, what parts need to be removed and if will it affect emissions.

anesthes

I'd love for you to point out to me where the "AIR SENSORS" are located.heh.

-- Joe

__________________
'87 Corvette - Singleplane, TFS heads, 10:1, Crane 109831 cam, steel crank, scat h-beams, true dual exhaust, 91-96 body conversion, ZF6 Trans, Powerdyne Supercharger, Grand Sport rims.

robsgta

When you unplug the two connections going above the diverter valve of the AIR system wont that set off SES for your EGR ?

anesthes

No. I've heard some people say that. Its an urban legend.

-- Joe

__________________
'87 Corvette - Singleplane, TFS heads, 10:1, Crane 109831 cam, steel crank, scat h-beams, true dual exhaust, 91-96 body conversion, ZF6 Trans, Powerdyne Supercharger, Grand Sport rims.

Nitsuj86Iroc

Heres a good question for this thread,

Im removing the air tubes, how the heck do you get the steel tube out that comes from the diverter valve and sends air to the passenger header, then goes back around the rear of the motor to send air to the driver header?? I cut some of it off from the passenger side, and it doesnt want to go anywhere, it seems stuck behind the engine where i cant see. the pic above looks like a rubber hose, but mine is steel and wont easily bend at all. any help is great

91CamaroRS305

i had to unbolt the trans crossmember and lower the trans to tilt the engine to get mine out, but there is probably an easier way to do it, but i am not sure, otherwise cut and bend till your blue in the face, i learned that everything comes a part sooner or later that way

__________________
Mike
I drive nothing with less than 350 cubic inches....
Best of a 13.50 @ 107 with a now blown trans in my old 91 Z28.
Now making room for the new race car.....an 88 RS.
Its like myspace BUT for gear heads

Nitsuj86Iroc

holy crap, im leaving it dangling there before i start doing that. can you describe the shape of it behind the motor? is it straight or is it curved upwards(high in the middle, low on the sides)?

Iv cut it, but iv yet to turn blue so im not trying hard enought haha. thanks

91CamaroRS305

it is basically a soft curve over the middle part of the bell housing for the trans, you might get away with just zip tying it off to the side, but that looks kinda nasty, but it is all up to you

Duck

There is no "good" way except to strip/remove/lower the engine. I cut the soft stainless pipe into pieces with a hacksaw blade, except for a short section that I can't reach and it rattles once in a while reminding me to some day attack it with vigor. If the tube ever needs to be replaced for SMOG, a nice stainless flex will be a lot easier to work with.

__________________
Duck_Pearl City, HI
87 IROC-Z 5.7, 92 Z28 5.7 25th Anniversary, 92 RS 25th Anniversary, 91 RS Ragtop

Knight350

MAJOR PROBLEM!!!

Hi Guys, this is a great thread....
BUT I have a hugh problem related to exactly this...

I have a 1991 GTA, runs beautifully.... it did pass the emissions test 2 years ago, now this year it will not! And I have already taken it 3 times! It failed mainly on NOx, and this time AFTER the EGR it failed on HC's as well... it's really odd, because there is nothing at all wrong with the car...?

We have changed the plugs, wires, cap rotor and even the EGR w/brand new AC delco unit.

NOW the kicker, I just realized (or remembered) I had the exhaust done last summer... I replaced the old y-pipe with a custom one and replaced the 2 old discoloured cats with one high flow high heat cat (350.00 bucks), so I assumed that was fine.
BUT it doesn't have the A.I.R. tube!!! and of course I still have the pump in and connected to the headers...
COULD this be the cause of the failing emissions? How can I fix this? Should the guys at the exhaust shop know to put back the right cat with the flickin A.I.R. tube...?!?

I am stuck, because I can't get my sticker till I have the emissions test passed, and its summer!!

Thanks very much guys, any help or thoughts will be great!!
Have fun,
Fredel

91CamaroRS305

heres an even better kicker for ya, you are most likely going to have to replace the cat completely, because it needs a provision for there to be a smaller tube sticking out of it for the air tube to be hooked up, which aides in increasing the temp of the cat which helps in breaking down the exhaust coming into it, so unless there is a little tube sticking out of it, you will have a problem

__________________
Mike
I drive nothing with less than 350 cubic inches....
Best of a 13.50 @ 107 with a now blown trans in my old 91 Z28.
Now making room for the new race car.....an 88 RS.
Its like myspace BUT for gear heads

Knight350

Really huh?
I know for sure there is no tube sticking out for that connection, I just looked yesterday... and I think you are right. I think I remember there being those tubes in the old cats.

So do you think this is why I am failing the test?
Do you think I must have 2 cats in there with the AIR tubes?
Am I screwed?

I will have to speak to the shop, because they are a custom hot rod exhaut shop and they should have known to put the emissions control stuff in.

91CamaroRS305

you dont need 2 cats just because it came with 2, the components today are a lot better than they were in the 80's, but the idea of the AIR system is to inject a controlled amount of air into the exhaust stream, both at the manifolds and cat, to get the O2 sensor up to temp so it can get readings, and for the cat to get to the temp it needs to be to break down the exhaust into the gases that come out of the pipe, or get another really nice 3 way cat(unless thats what you got) but the 3 ways have one more chemical compound in them to break down the exhaust further....but good luck!

Knight350

Thanks Very much 91, this sounds like this is what might be killing my emissions... I guess I might have to get a new cat??? that's sucks so much doesn't it?

But thanks... I'll see what I can do.
Have fun!

TransAm12sec

If you run your car really warm to the emissions place, the cat will be warmer, causing lower emissions.

Knight350